[Darkwatch]

I was closing the store the other day, and one of the girls I work with mentioned that she was eager to get home for a movie night with her boyfriend. She then asked what my respective plans were.

Paraphrased conversation below:

Me: A game with friends.
Coworker 1: Game?
Me: Dungeons and Dragons.
Coworker 1: What's that?
Me: A tabletop RPG.
Coworker 1: I don't know what that is.
Me: Ok...
Coworker 1: Well?
Me: Well you created a character and then play them in a setting.
Coworker 1: A board game?
Me: Kind of, but with no board, just your character sheet.
Coworker 1: Ok so on a computer.
Me: No, around a table live.
Coworker 1: A board game?
Me: I already said it wasn't. You sit there and tell the DM, the person playing the referee, what you're doing.
Coworker 1: I don't get it. It's all in your head?
Me: Yes.
Coworker 1: Not on a computer?
Me: No!
Assistant Manager: Are you really trying to explain DnD to her?
Me: Yes.
AM: She won't understand.
Me: Yeah, I discovered that.
Coworker 1: Hey, just explain it I'll understand.

Anyway this lead to me suggesting that the best way to understand would be to actually try and play a session. I mention it to Coworker 2 who has a skewed view of anything RPG related because her ex was "one of those guys" who took it far too seriously. I also ask her if she wants in on a game, since I need a few players (I was going to have one of my experienced friends come in and try and act as a mentor).
So I ask what characters they'd play.

Coworker 1: A Princess!
Me: *Blank Stare*

Coworker 2: An Elf!
Me: What kind of elf?
Coworker 2: Like in Lord of the Rings.
Me: Which one.
Coworker 2: The girl.
Me: Which one, Galadriel, Arwen, Legolas?
Coworker 2: Legolas wasn't a girl.
Me: Of course not. So which one?
Coworker 2: Ah...
Me: The blond one or the brunette?
Coworker 2: The brunette.
Me (internal monologue): What am I doing?

Those are the real responses.

So I have to find a way to come up with a scenario with a Princess, and knowing the girl a very traditional medieval princess that couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag, and and elf with no class ideas. No easy task.

The game has yet to occur but in my pigheadedness I'm going to make this happen. I'm angling towards an absurd game to help balance the fact that neither of these girls (or the other two who may join) are going to take this seriously.
I asked two friends (outside of work) to join to act as guides but to have silly characters to fit with what I'm going to have to work with. One wants to play a wizard ooze that changes colour to communicate. The other will play an effeminate and flaming necromancer with personal boundary issues.

I should mention that all the girls who might join in (except the Assistant Manager) could be described as incredibly ditzy and thoroughly clueless about anything RPG related (and possibly have a deprecating attitude towards it). One even thought Libya was a person...

My friends are old veterans of RPGs and have a malign view of ditzy girls.

This game session can only end in tears.

[Tsundoku]

Props for this at least:

Coworker 2: The girl.
Me: Which one, Galadriel, Arwen, Legolas?
Coworker 2: Legolas wasn't a girl.
Me: Of course not.

You're wrong about this ending in tears, it will end in an uncomfortable silence and odd glances at work from the chicks. Also pointing and giggling.

Only "come out" in your harder-core geekery when it's other geeks/nerds/etc around.

Rule #1 is ALWAYS "Don't Spook The Mundanes".

Good luck though, I admire your fortitude. I await the results of session 1 with considerable interest.

HINT: go mostly systemless, as anything more than "roll to hit/damage" will just confuse them.

[Darkwatch]

I will keep it light on the system, nothing complex. Even if the other two girls had character concepts so outlandish that GURPS would have been better.

The reason I thin it'll end in tears is my friends may get really mad at the probable ditzyness and may make the point or laugh at someone. None of the girls could take either of my friends on if insults began to fly and Coworker 1 strikes me as a girl who might cry (though not nearly as bad as one of the earlier employees).

We'll see when we get there.

[Tapper]

You might want to start off without character sheets, establish them during play and dialogue between them and you guys, maximize the amount of time they spend in character narrating their actions and interactions without going for dice, combat (especially eying the princess character/ player, who will probably start texting as soon as combat takes more than 5 minutes, which it will if you have to explain it to the girl playing Arwen-elf), modifiers or classes or confront them with the ways society functions for adventurers et cetera.

I've tried to introduce a couple of sceptics, both male and female, to RPG before and the one thing i noticed is that they're perfectly willing to immerse themselves after a while if they;re not being put off or corrected or attacked, but as soon as you go technical or refer to the character sheet and the numerical sides, they go glassy-eyed and ask: "why? Why is this so difficult, why do i miss despite rolling higher than he did, why is this resistance higher than that for my class, et cetera."

If you must introduce dice at some point, I;d say 10-sided dice systems like WoD tend to much easier to master (I never played GURPS) compared to AD&D/ D&D, partly because they are less tactical, partly because it can be seen in a glance whether or not you are succesful.

[Darkwatch]

Good advice that, dice rolling would kill the experience for them both. Though I will make the character sheet just so they have a warning of what may eventually happen.
I'll convince my friends not to go too hard on them to maximize the immersion.

As much as I'd use the d10 system both girls seem more comfortable with the fantasy setting. Not to mention the class structure gives good support to new players to whom a point buy system would be to diverse and obscure (like GURPS, WoD, MM2E, though MM2E wouldn't have been a bad idea).
WoD would just be too dark, like throwing them into Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy. The density of the Universes is extreme and bound to the "classes" you have access to which means they'd need to do some background reading to understand. Fantasy has some pretty universal tropes, though I agree that the d20 systems are usually tactics heavy and have a whole bunch of numbers requiring more imagination to visualize. There's also the racial templates that I'd need.

You know, I'll check with one of my friends who has the basic WoD book and see if I can make a lighter medieval fantasy setting while avoiding complex character creation.

Update on the character ideas:

Coworker 2 wants to be an Elven Ranger. DnD base class, easy enough to adapt in the WoD system I assume.

Coworker 1 wants to be a princess rockstar... So I'm looking at bard in DnD but in WoD I don't know.

Coworker 3 (who I may or may not allow to play) wanted to be a Flying Ninja Mage that rides a Dragon. I told her to be a Hexblade and to forget the dragon. Magical assassin, easy to convert in WoD.

[Tapper]

Darkwatch, on 08 June 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

Good advice that, dice rolling would kill the experience for them both. Though I will make the character sheet just so they have a warning of what may eventually happen.
I'll convince my friends not to go too hard on them to maximize the immersion.

As much as I'd use the d10 system both girls seem more comfortable with the fantasy setting. Not to mention the class structure gives good support to new players to whom a point buy system would be to diverse and obscure (like GURPS, WoD, MM2E, though MM2E wouldn't have been a bad idea).
WoD would just be too dark, like throwing them into Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy. The density of the Universes is extreme and bound to the "classes" you have access to which means they'd need to do some background reading to understand. Fantasy has some pretty universal tropes, though I agree that the d20 systems are usually tactics heavy and have a whole bunch of numbers requiring more imagination to visualize. There's also the racial templates that I'd need.

You know, I'll check with one of my friends who has the basic WoD book and see if I can make a lighter medieval fantasy setting while avoiding complex character creation.

Update on the character ideas:

Coworker 2 wants to be an Elven Ranger. DnD base class, easy enough to adapt in the WoD system I assume.

Coworker 1 wants to be a princess rockstar... So I'm looking at bard in DnD but in WoD I don't know.

Coworker 3 (who I may or may not allow to play) wanted to be a Flying Ninja Mage that rides a Dragon. I told her to be a Hexblade and to forget the dragon. Magical assassin, easy to convert in WoD.

Sounds good. WoD may indeed be a bit too dark but if you can take the system and leave the setting, it might work Lot of work, that I agree on.

If you're looking for a lighter hearted d10 setting, i can recommend 7th Sea, which is out of print for a long time but is available on DriveThroughRPG (and can be elsewhere).
I think it might be ideal for your purposes, also for combat introductions.
I think I have some stuff somewhere on a dvd/ external hard drive, so if you PM me an e-mailadress I might be able to send some through.

It is basically musketeer age Europe with a few nice twists and a nice focus on heroics but also fully fledged stuff for courtiers and non-fighting classes. There was also a d20 adaptation thanks to WotC owning the brand for a while. There are no elves, though, but there was an archery class in the "English" book that might fit the elvish bit, and which could be enhanced with a type of spell casting.

[Darkwatch]

Tapper, on 08 June 2011 - 10:40 PM, said:

Darkwatch, on 08 June 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

Good advice that, dice rolling would kill the experience for them both. Though I will make the character sheet just so they have a warning of what may eventually happen.
I'll convince my friends not to go too hard on them to maximize the immersion.

As much as I'd use the d10 system both girls seem more comfortable with the fantasy setting. Not to mention the class structure gives good support to new players to whom a point buy system would be to diverse and obscure (like GURPS, WoD, MM2E, though MM2E wouldn't have been a bad idea).
WoD would just be too dark, like throwing them into Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy. The density of the Universes is extreme and bound to the "classes" you have access to which means they'd need to do some background reading to understand. Fantasy has some pretty universal tropes, though I agree that the d20 systems are usually tactics heavy and have a whole bunch of numbers requiring more imagination to visualize. There's also the racial templates that I'd need.

You know, I'll check with one of my friends who has the basic WoD book and see if I can make a lighter medieval fantasy setting while avoiding complex character creation.

Update on the character ideas:

Coworker 2 wants to be an Elven Ranger. DnD base class, easy enough to adapt in the WoD system I assume.

Coworker 1 wants to be a princess rockstar... So I'm looking at bard in DnD but in WoD I don't know.

Coworker 3 (who I may or may not allow to play) wanted to be a Flying Ninja Mage that rides a Dragon. I told her to be a Hexblade and to forget the dragon. Magical assassin, easy to convert in WoD.

Sounds good. WoD may indeed be a bit too dark but if you can take the system and leave the setting, it might work Lot of work, that I agree on.

If you're looking for a lighter hearted d10 setting, i can recommend 7th Sea, which is out of print for a long time but is available on DriveThroughRPG (and can be elsewhere).
I think it might be ideal for your purposes, also for combat introductions.
I think I have some stuff somewhere on a dvd/ external hard drive, so if you PM me an e-mailadress I might be able to send some through.

It is basically musketeer age Europe with a few nice twists and a nice focus on heroics but also fully fledged stuff for courtiers and non-fighting classes. There was also a d20 adaptation thanks to WotC owning the brand for a while. There are no elves, though, but there was an archery class in the "English" book that might fit the elvish bit, and which could be enhanced with a type of spell casting.

I've never played 7th Sea, heard about it though. If it has a good angle for courtiers then I'm willing to give it a shot. Hope it's simple enough for me to learn so that I can initiate neophytes to it.
I'll PM you my e-mail address.

[Tapper]

It has been sent.

[Silencer]

Darkwatch, you are a legend. XD

But really, I think your trouble isn't going to be the system, it's going to be getting them to be sensible. Rules or otherwise, this is going to be tricky to get them to realize that playing isn't about being ridiculous (though it can be, if done right) it's about co-operating to tell a story. Something tells me these people aren't going to 'get' that.

Also: curse you! Now I have a burning desire to do some light RP, and I need to be studying! >.<

[Garak]

I look forward to hearing how this went (film it if you can for the win). I've participated at sessions like this one before (with people who were already into sf/fantasy) but the problem I noticed wasn't about the numbers and char sheets (they didn't understand those well but seemed willing to try even so) the problem was a complete lack of imagination on their part. They literally didn't know what to do and couldn't get in character - as a DM I noticed that players who have trouble visualizing the whole thing tend to either quit as they don't get it or just do dumb shit. And by dumb shit I mean stuff that would get them killed in a heartbeat if I had less patience - I also know a couple of power gamers who also act like that.

Going full narrative mode and keeping the dice to a minimum is probably for the best (though I fail to understand what's so complicated about the char sheet , I pity the mundanes).

[Darkwatch]

@Garak I may well record (audio only) the session. Does anyone know of a good transcription program that can handle Canadian French?

Looks like we're going into the DnD system. 7th Sea looks awesome but I'm not familiar enough with the system and neither are my friends, though they are primed to try a game in the system afterwards between us geeks.

I've sent out the available dates to all those concerned, it'll happen this week or the next or never.

Once it's confirmed I'll put the setting on here.

[Tapper]

Looking forward to what you'll make of the system

Re 7th sea: I think you and your buddies will have some fun with it when you get to running it as a test drive .

[Garak]

So I take it nothing happened in the end? Too bad.

[Darkwatch]

Not to bandy about false hope, but I'm still working on it.
The main problems are scheduling and Princess. What with her boyfriend unhappy about her playing DnD for some reason.
I've rescheduled it for the 30th, but if it doesn't happen then I'm cutting her out even if the entire point of this was for her to play.

Anyway here's the scenario.


Princess Libya is the youngest child of the reigning king. She has 4 older brothers each with distinctive personalities for NPCs.
Elven ranger is a mid level noble and Libya's best friend. Her father has been working hard to maintain that since it increases his position in court. This is the highest ranking elven family in the kingdom. She's also trying to marry one of the princes.
Miss Ninja Assassin is second friend of Libya, and one of the royal hit squad's members. She is often assigned as a secret protector to Libya.

Krodon Kramsey is a very belligerent chef hired by the royal court. He is a half-orc bard that fights with a rolling pin and a butcher knife.
Flamboyant Necromancer is a very very effeminate low noble who is one of the region's best embalmer and funeral home owners. Intends to compete with Ms Elven Ranger for the attention of the Princes.
Cube is a gelatinous cube 8ftx8ftx8ft. He's a wizard that contains the skeletal remains of the mage that awakened him and accidentally fell in. To avoid panic he contains a stone sign that says "I come in peace" floating in his body (varying degrees of success).
Philosopher Gnome is exactly that. A gnome that believes in time, space and force. He's the cube's interpreter and friend.

The four princes are in order of eldest to youngest:
-First: Lazy by nature but passive. renounced the throne and preferred being a leach. Though as leaches go he's ok. He married well, causes no scandals and does administer the region in which he lives competently.
-Second: Academic and intellectual he's the best educated of the four. He has a natural charisma and people respect him. Unfortunately that charisma isn't the inspiring kind and no one sees him as a leader simply as the best vizier. He has ambitions and has tried to manipulate his younger brothers but failed with the third and cares not for the fourth. Him and the third get along well.
-Third: He's the one. Everyone says he'll be king. He has the charisma, the leadership, the ambition and the cunning. Has a temper but is smart enough to hide it behind closed doors. Has a close relationship with the second son and they usually work together.
-Fourth: The spoiled brat. Has ambition but no cunning, or charisma nor any real knowledge. Incredibly irritable and easily manipulated, everyone avoids him. He causes scandals and is above all the family embarrassment.

All of them are at the Grand Sun Ball that is held every 10 years by the 5 kingdoms of the region. It is one of the biggest affairs there is on the planet. Princess Libya is there as a debutante on the international scene as is Ms Evlen Ranger. Libya is looking for a potential suitor and Elven Ranger as well, though as I said she's angling on one of her best friend's brothers.
This is the chance for five royal courts to mingle in a grand setting.
Kramsey is there as vice-executive chef.
Necro is there to make business dealings, show off and finding a potential suitor among the princes.
Cube and Gnome Philosopher were invited as curiosities.
Ms Ninja Assassin is there to keep an eye on Libya.
The princes are there to try and find wives, except for the oldest who is already married and renounced his title to the throne preferring to lead a life of luxury with no real responsibility with his family in a northern villa.

The other Great families and Royal families are present, and the pretty stereotypical intrigue of the court will occur. Enemies, rivals and allies can be found.

Honestly though the ball is the substitute tavern for all the players to meet.

Pretty standard stuff to be honest.

This post has been edited by Darkwatch: 13 July 2011 - 10:19 PM

[Cause]

Darkwatch, on 08 June 2011 - 04:46 AM, said:

One even thought Libya was a person...

Make this your Signature!

Also please record the Game (Yes capital G) for posterity

[Tsundoku]

Oh please tell me you had a session, I could use the lulz.

[Darkwatch]

Unfortunately I'm still working on a session. Though I have not given up yet and I will succeed even if it destroys what little bonds of friendship I have with these girls.

And yes I will record it. Though as I said someone better point me in the direction of a good transcription program since this will be a few hours of talking and it will be in French.

So I could post the audio file but try understanding a bunch of people talking over each other in Canadian French.

[rhulad]

No session yet? I want some funnies!

[Tsundoku]

So ... what happened?

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

They're still playing.