[Cougar]

I've been stewing on this for a bit myself and I think that in the end, we all should have realised that this was never going to be a cosy wrap up sessions. If the style of Erikson didn't tell you that, the fact that a concurent series is running alongside it with large elements of crossover is only half done should have.

I thought it was great, not the best book in the series perhaps, but still a pacy and satisfying end to it all. You have to really view the series holistically, because just focusing on the one book makes everything that goes before a little pointless.

What he did finish where the important parts - the stories of the central characters who have been the focus of the story all along. Here I'm thinking of Whiskeyjack & the BBs, Fiddler in particular, the Crippled God and the Parans. We surely couldn't expect the stories of Draconus, Icarium, Karsa (who Erkison has already said he's not finished with) to be rounded off.

[Lister of Smeg]

The only loose end that disappointed me in this book was Quick Ben. For a character who's been a major player in eight out of the ten books, I had expected a bit more info on him in tCG. Other than that, I was very happy with the book and the ending. Particularly pleased that most of my favourite marines survived (except poor Corabb and Shortnose).

[King Bear]

I wanted more info on QB too, but not getting it didn't annoy me as much as I thought it would have. Guess it didn't matter so much in the grand scheme of events.

I thought Iccy's story was rounded off as much as it needed to be. He was rescued and continued wandering the world, just like he had been doing for the past bazillion years, because that's what he does. It was nice symmetry I thought, since that's what he was doing when we first met him. His life was finally back to "normal" after all the crap he'd been through. It felt good but was also bitter-sweet, since he now wanders without Mappo, without even any recollection of his friend.

This doesn't mean I don't want more Iccy. I'd love to see more of him in future books!

[QuickTidal]

I thought everyting I truly NEEDED to be wrapped up was...and all the stuff I'd rather not know the full details of...I dind't find out...so it all worked for me.

In fact, unite TCG and DOD as one volume and I'd say they stand with DG and MOI as my top faves.

[Cougar]

A point worth making about the loose ends is that, for me at least, it gave the story far more of a real world texture. From the start this series was always about giving the story the contested treatment of a historian or archaeologist, so it fits better. I mean, if you wrote a story about WW2 and it ended with all the loose ends tied up, you'd find it ludicrious.

[Bhurnae]

That has been a given all through the series cougarman...... I just feel the pacing was lazy. Everyone reappearing at the beginning then another freaking loooooooooooong dusty walk and all the wrap ups either coming at the end or in asides. I was so looking forward to this, especially after DoD which I loved,and it would possibly be better in a re-read after skipping the belaboured povs during the walk but it just left me thinking....... meh. So I doubt I'll ever get around to a full re-read after what felt like an anti-climax to me. GotM will remain on my fave list forever and I'll probably pick up Stonewielder but that'll probably be it.

This is just my opinion and to all those who found what they were looking for......I'm made up for you.

[Onos Toolan]

Macros, on 08 June 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

This book redeemed the flawed piece that I thought DoD was.
If you take the two as a whole it makes a far superior (albiet lenghty) product. I still maintain that the series was a 9 book project that was mistakenly sold as ten. And to stretch the canvas every cool/random thing that ice and se had ever created in their table toppling days was thrown in, either irrelevant or shoehorned to fit.

Regardless, cg was a solid finale, will never be my favourite of the series, that will forever be DG, but a conclusion to plenty of story lines, and some left open are clearly for continuation, we know there's nearly ten more books coming, and we know grub ends up a fist at least so the bonehunters di return to the empire.
My biggest gripe with the book stands for the last 3/4 I'm simply not sharp enough for them, so many things came outa nowhere or made no sense until I Sat and really thought back through the series. Hmm, maybe the foreshadowing was too obscure in places,to much assumption ofthe readers competence.
I'm nit making much sense, I'll stew on it for a while and post when I'm on the laptop

In House of Chains there is a mention of Grub actually being the First Sword of the Late Empire, Chapter 19, so he ends up being even higher than a fist. Perhaps one day there will even be a book about him. Fingers crossed.

[tiam]

Ive just finished reading them back to back and as a pair DOD and TCG make much more sense and work well together. I preferred TCG so much more on this reread. The Barghast and the Perish plotlines werent half as frustrating this time round and I felt they didnt detract from the main plotline. I think it felt so redundant the first time round (mostly the Barghast) because they were killed within the space of a book even the retreating Senan. It fits so much better now I havnt got to wait like 14months inbetween books.

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

I thought this book was great far better than Dust of Dreams, at least for me. I think what puts some people off is that the latter half of the series is very slow paced, until the end where it seems everything just collides together in a maelstrom. Icarium's storyline wasn't that interesting to me past DG but I understand his purpose in the overal arc.
Overall i'd still day my favorites are MOI and MT although that is subject to change.

I really like that tthere are so many events happening at any given time as it adds to the believebility of the world and not everything needs to be linked together just as in real life you have many discrete events occuring.This is a larege book documenting some of the major events occuring in the Malazan world during the time of Laseen's rule and while it does have numerous plot threads that link up to form a central arc it isn't the only focus of the series. Think of it in game terms

Malazan = Elder Scrolls (where you have a main quest but also many guilds that have their own independant storylines and other random NPC sidequests) They all form the basis of a living breathing world that continues on even after the series is over.

[tiam]

Im currently rereading DG atm. One of the statements that was thrown near the end is that it was Iccys guardians that were important not Iccy. Ive been doing some thinking about this.

It doesnt really fit. Mappo was supposed to put Iccy in an Azath in DG but he didnt earning the ire of the NO. Then in BH he was replaced so the NO could use Iccy as a weapon to some extent by Veed. These motives are from POV's like the people who free Dejihm Nebrahl. Yet if it was the guardians who were important, because they jeopardized the alliances of the NO why kill Mappo he was still guarding Iccy?

As for the Guardian thing it does make sense. Mappo for example may have united the Trell (speculation)and caused trouble against the Nemil as another Trell had done in a BH flashback. Veed is slightly easier as he wanted to hire a mercenary company to get back his tribe. Its possible the NO have alliances with the Gral and wouldnt welcome a warlike leader they couldnt control.

I like the twist that the guardians are dangerous but it doesnt fit completely with earlier books.

[Stradivarius]

the only thing that dissapointed me about the last book was Onos T'oolan ending, so out of the norm for ericson to give such a happy, far fetched ending. not belivable within the context of the rest of the books

[Klaen]

I thought Onos' ending was quite apt, and perhaps a barely ample reward for the insane amount of emotional, physical and mental trauma/anguish experienced by the First Sword throughout the story. As far as scales and balance go I felt his ending quite fair and reasonable.

For me, the biggest impression I walked away with from the last two books was: Erickson's obvious raw emotion at penning the last pages in this incredible work - this is especially evident in the last 200 pages of tCG (a very emotional climactic ending). The other thing to hit me was the vast social commentary placed into these final books (but a constant theme across all books). These books provide an incredible glimpse into SE's incredible grasp of historical repetition and also his views on the merits and flaws of ciivilisation. Totally epic in context, scale and story.


While I can understand why people could feel a little annoyed at the large numbers of loose plot threads not ever tied up, I am hoping that SE's clear crazy work ethic will be something hard to shake off and that he is unable to resist the temptation to teasingly hit us with the end of these threads in upcoming works.

Yep, I'm a fanboy, so inherent my bias, but I thought the book was more than adequate in wrapping up the core focus of the series - the Malazan Empire (with the bonus of tidying up the various core associated threads).

This post has been edited by Klaen: 25 July 2011 - 12:20 AM

[tiam]

It doesnt actually tie up the Malazan Empire though. The Empire is focused on more by ICE. Since BH the Empire hasnt really been involved just renegade forces. In fact its only the first four books that deal with the Empire and most of the 6th. All the main arc has done is tie up the situation of TCG himself.

[Kanese S's]

Indeed, the central conflict of MBotF is the situation with the Crippled God. While much of the plot takes place in the Malazan Empire in the earlier books, the last four books of the series (last three if you count DoD and TCG together), take place outside its borders, and the Malazans involved are, at least the vast majority of them, essentially exiles.

[Klaen]

Yes true - my comment was inaccurate, the elements which SE tied up were indeed exiled forces - although arguably still Malazan's, and more than anything highly representative of the tactical and cultural behaviour of their military forces (which arguably are the core elements which have fleshed out the success of the Malazan Empire).

[worry]

It's essentially about what a good general Dassem Ultor was before he went loco.

[maro]

It's pretty impressive considering the last 200 pages is all battle scenes. That's a lot of fighting.

For one, the Tool tidying up was fine - I admit to having something in my eye when he sets eyes on Toc for the last time!

I was very interested in Calm's thoughts on Mappo's "worth" and what they were in relation to Icarium - will we see more of him (Iccy)?

Karsa has a cameo of sorts - it was a bit strange the way he appeared but I liked it

[Battalion]

Why was Mappo such a pussy?

I realise he ran across a desert, but he got beat up far too easily. Then a one-time street thug from lether avenged him just as easily.

[maro]

Battalion, on 27 July 2011 - 06:32 AM, said:

Why was Mappo such a pussy?

I realise he ran across a desert, but he got beat up far too easily. Then a one-time street thug from lether avenged him just as easily.

Calm was a superior fighter to Mappo, no matter how tough he was.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

maro, on 27 July 2011 - 06:53 AM, said:

Battalion, on 27 July 2011 - 06:32 AM, said:

Why was Mappo such a pussy?

I realise he ran across a desert, but he got beat up far too easily. Then a one-time street thug from lether avenged him just as easily.

Calm was a superior fighter to Mappo, no matter how tough he was.

This.

Also, the thug was actually a half-Tarthenal ,strong enough to walk the bed of a river while weighted with bags of gold and later held his own against fullblooded Toblakai gods, who hit her by surprise with a magical dragon-killing weapon.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 27 July 2011 - 07:19 AM