[Studlock]

I really think the FA were set pieces to show the lenghts the 'good guys' would go for compassion and also to contrast compassion with justice. For example, freeing the CG was not an act of justice but of compassion, whereas the total point of the FA was justice, namely in killing everything because of how messed up the world was. So the villian in a sense was not the FA but the idea of justice without compassion which leads to vaste misjudgements (for example killing everything). In for caring for Kolanse I would say were the battle(s) happened doesn't matter as much as the battle(s) themselves and the sacrifces of those battle. The marines for example are almost killed to the person in the name of compassion, and nothing else. That's how I saw it anyhow, the point of the book was not stopping the big bad (the CG who was for purposes the 'Dark Lord' of Wu and really didn't get all that punished for his crimes) but showing the big bad compassion and above all else understanding which justice without compassion usually over looks(the FA). Sorry if this didn't make sense, it most likely sounds way better in my head.

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Studlock, on 16 December 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

I really think the FA were set pieces to show the lenghts the 'good guys' would go for compassion and also to contrast compassion with justice. For example, freeing the CG was not an act of justice but of compassion, whereas the total point of the FA was justice, namely in killing everything because of how messed up the world was. So the villian in a sense was not the FA but the idea of justice without compassion which leads to vaste misjudgements (for example killing everything). In for caring for Kolanse I would say were the battle(s) happened doesn't matter as much as the battle(s) themselves and the sacrifces of those battle. The marines for example are almost killed to the person in the name of compassion, and nothing else. That's how I saw it anyhow, the point of the book was not stopping the big bad (the CG who was for purposes the 'Dark Lord' of Wu and really didn't get all that punished for his crimes) but showing the big bad compassion and above all else understanding which justice without compassion usually over looks(the FA). Sorry if this didn't make sense, it most likely sounds way better in my head.

Well, I think that was the intention by SE, if I understood you correctly. But considering the difficulty to put all of this in words, I believe that maybe SE out*brained* himself on this one. It is a cool concept, but doesn´t exactly bowl you over.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

I can't say that I found any volume of the MBotF disappointing. I will say that Dust of Dreams was the hardest one for me to get through. Probably because SE took the whole abruptly-changing-POVs to an extreme that was a bit much for even me, who hadn't minded it at all in previous volumes. But Dust of Dreams also introduced the Ribby Snake, which was one of my favorite parts of the whole series. I'm aware that some readers feel quite differently about the Snake, but to me it was among the highlights.

One practice that I find hard to wrap my mind around, and I read testimony to it not just here in this topic, but scattered here and there around the rest of the forum, is the skimming over parts of the books that contain "philosophising," "whining," or whatever miscellaneous and sundry content that happens to irritate the reader. I never do this and find it rather incomprehensible that others do. Hell, I wouldn't even skim reading ICE, and I haven't read a satisfying book by him yet.

[RACHEL]

I have read many comments reguarding skimming sections of the books. I think a lot of the skimming comes during re-reads where people skip parts that bored them the first time around. I do agree that it seems crazy to skim read these books considering the fact that even skipping one sentence can mean missing out on an important fact, but I have to admit that even though I never purposely skimmed any of the books, I do zone out during the heavy philosophising. I will do a re-read of the series some day and I am pretty sure I will skim over those sections. In a series where even the most dedicated reader misses many things it hardly seems to matter if someone skims parts they find boring, besides one can always ask questions on here if they feel like they missed something.

[epicoutkast]

Good afternoon.

My first post. Ever.

Just reflecting on why I personally jump/skim over Erikson's philosophizing.
I admit it's because when he tunes his genius to action (when he lets the hungry hippo game begin between someone like Rake and Traveler), he (SE), in my opinion, has no rival.

I'm on my re-read of CripGod, and I have no shame admitting I missed a lot the first time around.

I've read all of the MBOF series, and re-read several. Again no shame in admitting I missed a lot.

But I LOVE the books.
Erikson's amazing, disappointingly deep at times, but his world has no equal in my opinion.

Have a great day.

Love to talk about the books, theories, etc. if anyone would like to.

Peace like a river, and don't hurt em hammer.

Ok

[Hairshirt]

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 01 November 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

I wouldn't even skim reading ICE, and I haven't read a satisfying book by him yet.

Have you read Dancers Lament? I loved it, it might be because during the main books I became a Shadowthrone and Cotillion fanboy. But I really enjoyed the prequel and the appearances of beloved characters with a glimpse of their backstory.

I agree I find ICE's earlier books unsatisfying but I think that has more to do with my selfish brain refusing to allow another writer into my Malazan world where SE reigns supreme.

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

Hairshirt, on 12 November 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 01 November 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

I wouldn't even skim reading ICE, and I haven't read a satisfying book by him yet.

Have you read Dancers Lament? I loved it, it might be because during the main books I became a Shadowthrone and Cotillion fanboy. But I really enjoyed the prequel and the appearances of beloved characters with a glimpse of their backstory.

I agree I find ICE's earlier books unsatisfying but I think that has more to do with my selfish brain refusing to allow another writer into my Malazan world where SE reigns supreme.

After disappointing readings of Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard I wasn't keen to continue with ICE at all. But I would read bold claims in the sub-forums of both those books to "Read on, ICE gets better." But in the sub-forums of Stoneweilder; Blood and Bone; Orb, Sceptre, Throne; and Assail, there were the very same replies to those who didn't like those books either. "Read on, ICE gets better."

So rather than suffer through SW, B&B, OST, Assail, I decided to cut to the chase and go straight to Dancer's Lament, where the claim of ICE getting better must surely come to pass if it was ever going to. Alas, for me, it did not. I found the first half of Dancer's Lament an absolute chore to read and while there was some improvement in the latter half of the book I was once again left with a very low opinion of both ICE's story and his clumsy writing, which continues to grate so much that it is constantly jarring me from immersion and making me all too aware that I am reading a book.

[Nunchucks]

ergault, on 06 June 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

Ulrik, on 05 June 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Andromander, on 04 June 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

First half of the book was constant whining, every character was sounding like the same depressed, sad god/soldier/whatever.
Second half of the book was illogical sequence of things happening without any real explanation,
then the book ended and you got more questions than answears.

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

6/10

I suggest to add some points explaining your opinion. Otherwise you´ll get only negative reactions... we cant discuss, only say - you are wrong/ right.

what reallysurprised/dissapointed me was at the last possible moment having sinn become the ultimate threat to the whole plot.....that came straight out of left field.....having ges n stormy go that way was anticlimatic

On reread, it is very obvious that Sinn is a problem and everybody fears her. She even covets TCG power.

[Pherikus Nul]

Nunchucks, on 15 July 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

ergault, on 06 June 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

Ulrik, on 05 June 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Andromander, on 04 June 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

First half of the book was constant whining, every character was sounding like the same depressed, sad god/soldier/whatever.
Second half of the book was illogical sequence of things happening without any real explanation,
then the book ended and you got more questions than answears.

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

6/10

I suggest to add some points explaining your opinion. Otherwise you´ll get only negative reactions... we cant discuss, only say - you are wrong/ right.

what reallysurprised/dissapointed me was at the last possible moment having sinn become the ultimate threat to the whole plot.....that came straight out of left field.....having ges n stormy go that way was anticlimatic

On reread, it is very obvious that Sinn is a problem and everybody fears her. She even covets TCG power.

Yeah, I didn't catch her passage about being in the lightning bolt that killed Keneb on my first read. Sinn is insane after Y'Ghatan (hell, I'd even argue that she went insane at the end of HoC), sometimes too subtly, that culminates in the conflagration of all conflagration. There's also a lot of hints that she is using Icarium's fire juice instead of the Warrens, which is why Stormy and Gesler's annealed skin fails.

[Mythodikal]

Well... I was actually just starting my "re-read" (listen) of OST by ICE when I started reading this thread. I didn't realize until the end that the last comment was almost a year ago. Oh well, I read it all so I'm gonna comment! Haha

First, my reaction to tCG. Overall I was very happy with the finale to the greatest series of books that has ever been written, haha. Reading through this thread it is funny how much I agree with and disagree with, often within a single post. I very much enjoyed the last 200 pages, I feel like the story lines that I expected to be tied up were to some degree, and the one's that weren't was fine with me.

That being said, there were some story lines that got a lot of air time that I really couldn't care less about, and as others have mentioned, some that just weren't filled out enough for me to be invested. The first page about Held was enough for me. The Hetan story line was such a forced switch I couldn't get engaged. Soooo much whining! Then you have the FA that have been played up as the biggest bad asses but there is only a few of them and they are pretty much hypnotizing a pack of humans? Oh and the K'Chain were super mysterious bad asses in MoI but now they talk and communicate with their human trinity? Huh?

Someone posted that there was no Icarium story it was Mappo's story all along, or the guardian story. I'm sorry did you not read that whole agonizing story line with the ghosts of magic future plot line where Icarium is the unknown observer? That was tough.

On the other hand Kalem and QB back together, Rudd and Silchas, any actual meeting of the Bonehunters command or seargents (other than the stupid first, haha). The Shake. I even came to like the Tiste Andii from there, other than Sandurlath. Fiddler, Fiddler, Bottle, and Fiddler! Ges and Stormy (no problem with their deaths), Gruntle, Shurq, Oblala, Bryce getting freaky with his employee (good for him!)

Anyway, I think you get the point.

I will finish with one last thought... Maaaan do people ever love to hate on ICE. It's funny for me when I read how clumsy his writing is. I'll give you NoK, but... GotM had some issues too. Now, he doesn't have a DG, MoI, or MT, but it's some pretty harsh critique. I read RotCG when it came out, same with SW. I just listened to them both over the last few weeks. I'll tell you one thing, there aren't entire segments that I have to force myself to pay attention to like in some of SE's later books (Don't even get me started on the Kharkanas trilogy). Anyway, I think they are super fun. They tie in a lot of material that we wouldn't see otherwise. Are they a grand opus? No. Are you getting more information from the man that co-created this world? Yes. Maybe leave your red marker at home ;-p

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.