[Andromander]

First half of the book was constant whining, every character was sounding like the same depressed, sad god/soldier/whatever.
Second half of the book was illogical sequence of things happening without any real explanation,
then the book ended and you got more questions than answears.

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

6/10

[Sinisdar Toste]

maybe it wasn't illogical, but simply impenetrable on a first read? everything seemed to be happening for a reason as far as i could see, but only vaguely and only on a second read. this finale doesn't really deviate at all from eriksons pattern, and it reminds me so much of the ending of TtH, which left me thinking, what, how, and why did all of that just happen? once i'd sat and thought about tCG there isn't really anything left out of place. the things that needed to be wrapped up got wrapped up. maybe the answers didn't outweigh the questions, but there were plenty of answers i thought.

basically, i'm of the opinion that you can't make all the connections on a first read. it's literally impossible. you'd have to read slowly and take notes the entire way through.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 05 June 2011 - 03:25 AM

[D'iversify]

Andromander, on 04 June 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

It's not really 'Icarium's story', it's Mappo's. If you're disappointed that he didn't up and kill everyone within a hundred mile radius then boo hoo for you, but I don't see personally how that would have made it a 'better' book.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

First half of the OP was constant whining, every line was sounding like the same buyer's remorse/disappointment/whatever.
Second half of the post was unsubstantiated series of complaints with no real elaboration or explanation.
then the post ended and you got more questions than answears.

[Ulrik]

Andromander, on 04 June 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

First half of the book was constant whining, every character was sounding like the same depressed, sad god/soldier/whatever.
Second half of the book was illogical sequence of things happening without any real explanation,
then the book ended and you got more questions than answears.

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

6/10

I suggest to add some points explaining your opinion. Otherwise you´ll get only negative reactions... we cant discuss, only say - you are wrong/ right.

[Kanese S's]

As someone who loved the finale, my opinion's biased.

But I'd be in a pretty sour mood, too, if I was crossing a desert made of glass/crystal shards that was so hot and dry that I had to drink my own piss to survive, at the behest of a leader who didn't really give me any details to why I had to do so, towards a total unknown, after barely surviving a hellish fight, one that occurred simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, with little to no explanation for why, that took the lives of tons of people I knew, some of whom I probably liked. Of course I'd be complaining.

[worry]

Why would loving the finale make your opinion any more "biased" than someone who didn't like it? Don't sell yourself short!

[Kanese S's]

Because of the sheer fanboyism?

[Shansteeth]

I "think" that what makes it tough to swallow for so many people is the lack of wrapping up that did happen, even though there was of course plenty wrap ups.



Most books end with everything all neat and tidy. Not many books would leave the all to real threat of the World ending in chaos and fire at the hands of an Icarium type character, who simply has to lose his temper to end things.



Not many would end their series in the midst of the entire Pantheon of the Gods being at war. The reason they were at war may have come to an end, and those Gods mostly did not show up for one reason or another, but these don't strike me as the types to just up and say oh well,cripple gods gone and done with, guess we'll go back to being at peace and happy ho hum.


This world is in flux. Paran didn't stop being the Master of the DoD. Icarium didn't stop being possibly a world destroyer. the Jhistal Priest and Laseen didn't just decide that they can share the empire and no big deal what happened with the Bonehunters.



Despite Tavore issuing the order, does anyone think her and Paran are going to just ignore that ultimately it was the Empress and her purges that sent their sister to the Otataral mines?



There is so much shit still to go on, I think people don't feel like this is an ending so how an the series be over?



What about Leoman of the Flails - I still dont understand what deal he made or why, and what happen Sparrow?



This world goes on....in "most" fantasy books once the series and the threat is over...its like...and we all lived happily ever after forever.



Thank god this one isnt one of those books.

[Tsundoku]

Shansteeth, on 06 June 2011 - 06:47 AM, said:

... the Jhistal Priest and Laseen didn't just decide that they can share the empire ...

Despite Tavore issuing the order, does anyone think her and Paran are going to just ignore that ultimately it was the Empress and her purges that sent their sister to the Otataral mines?

I take it you haven't yet read Return of the Crimson Guard?

[ergault]

Ulrik, on 05 June 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Andromander, on 04 June 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

First half of the book was constant whining, every character was sounding like the same depressed, sad god/soldier/whatever.
Second half of the book was illogical sequence of things happening without any real explanation,
then the book ended and you got more questions than answears.

(Icarium story was the most pointless of them all )

6/10

I suggest to add some points explaining your opinion. Otherwise you´ll get only negative reactions... we cant discuss, only say - you are wrong/ right.

what reallysurprised/dissapointed me was at the last possible moment having sinn become the ultimate threat to the whole plot.....that came straight out of left field.....having ges n stormy go that way was anticlimatic

[King Bear]

Kanese S, on 06 June 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

I'd be in a pretty sour mood, too, if I was crossing a desert made of glass/crystal shards that was so hot and dry that I had to drink my own piss to survive

 man v wild.jpg (23.03K)
Number of downloads: 8

[King Bear]

ergault, on 06 June 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

what reallysurprised/dissapointed me was at the last possible moment having sinn become the ultimate threat to the whole plot.....that came straight out of left field.....having ges n stormy go that way was anticlimatic

I have very different feelings about those events. If you're saying that Sinn as a threat came out of nowhere (which you may not be), no. It had been steadily building for a long while. Ges and Stormy knew that Sinn was badass and could/would eventually be trouble. They died in a suitably epic and tragic way, I thought. I was really sad to see them go, but I didn't think their deaths were anticlimatic. Sure, the timing of Sinn's attack was abrupt IIRC/didn't miss foreshadowing specific to it, but to me that only added to the tragedy of it. Fair enough if it affected you differently, but by no means was it necessarily a bad move by SE.

Calling Sinn the ultimate threat to the whole plot seems something of an overstatement. There were so many different, intermingling strands and a number of other threats, to me at least, dwarfed Sinn both in terms of danger and plot import. What about Icarium's power in the hands of Calm? Or the Otataral dragon? At the time Sinn could have screwed up the plot, maybe, but a number of others had that privilege over the course of the novel.

This post has been edited by Quick Ben's Magic Pants: 06 June 2011 - 02:01 PM

[Shansteeth]

Sombra, on 06 June 2011 - 07:10 AM, said:

Shansteeth, on 06 June 2011 - 06:47 AM, said:

... the Jhistal Priest and Laseen didn't just decide that they can share the empire ...

Despite Tavore issuing the order, does anyone think her and Paran are going to just ignore that ultimately it was the Empress and her purges that sent their sister to the Otataral mines?

I take it you haven't yet read Return of the Crimson Guard?

I haven't although I've seen the events alluded to a few times. I'm not sure at all either as to the timeframe of that compared to this. My understanding is that many of the books, not to mention the books within this series, are not the easiest to identify. like the invasion of Lether from the Edur happens while many of the events in the books before, and after, are happening.


But don't ruin it! I still think the point stands! As far as Tavore and Paran and all of the Bonehunters know(and those of us who have only read the book of the fallen) the Empire is in the hands of those two people!

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I'm sure the outcome of the Rel/Laseen power struggle or whatever it was was mentioned in DoD - I haven't read RotCG and knew what happened before I read these forums, I'm sure it was mentioned explicitly.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

POOPOO MCBUMFACE, on 06 June 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

I'm sure the outcome of the Rel/Laseen power struggle or whatever it was was mentioned in DoD - I haven't read RotCG and knew what happened before I read these forums, I'm sure it was mentioned explicitly.

Yeah, in DoD the other EG are suspicious of Mael and mention the fact that his Jhistal priest has just ascended to the throne of the most powerful Empire since Kallor and Dessimbelackis

[Sanctume]

After reading TCG, I thought it was a fine ending for a story arc I would find in a role-playing campaign game.

It was as I expected it, open ended for more adventures if I choose to play in that game world called the Malazan Empire.

The world building was quite detailed that I can imaging myself "rolling" any character and I would have SE's (and ICE's) game world as my play ground.
I could have rolled a Letheri recruit and have stats to be in Hedge's Bridgeburner company and be able to participate in that last stand battles, including the piss drinking trek across the glass desert.

I could have rolled an unknown ancient being with "borrowed" Storm Guard armor that is available when ancient enemy KCNR comes to play--oh like that guy!

I think that's how different and epic this Malazan book is for me. I would have enjoyed a gaming session with SE and ICE back in their gaming days. And his writing was good to provide me to imaging in that world.

[Kanese S's]

Quick Ben, on 06 June 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 06 June 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

I'd be in a pretty sour mood, too, if I was crossing a desert made of glass/crystal shards that was so hot and dry that I had to drink my own piss to survive

 man v wild.jpg (23.03K)
Number of downloads: 8

As said before, I am, alas, not Bear Grylls. Most people aren't.

[kalam4]

Quote

I "think" that what makes it tough to swallow for so many people is the lack of wrapping up that did happen, even though there was of course plenty wrap ups.



Most books end with everything all neat and tidy. Not many books would leave the all to real threat of the World ending in chaos and fire at the hands of an Icarium type character, who simply has to lose his temper to end things.



Not many would end their series in the midst of the entire Pantheon of the Gods being at war. The reason they were at war may have come to an end, and those Gods mostly did not show up for one reason or another, but these don't strike me as the types to just up and say oh well,cripple gods gone and done with, guess we'll go back to being at peace and happy ho hum.


This world is in flux. Paran didn't stop being the Master of the DoD. Icarium didn't stop being possibly a world destroyer. the Jhistal Priest and Laseen didn't just decide that they can share the empire and no big deal what happened with the Bonehunters.



Despite Tavore issuing the order, does anyone think her and Paran are going to just ignore that ultimately it was the Empress and her purges that sent their sister to the Otataral mines?



There is so much shit still to go on, I think people don't feel like this is an ending so how an the series be over?



What about Leoman of the Flails - I still dont understand what deal he made or why, and what happen Sparrow?



This world goes on....in "most" fantasy books once the series and the threat is over...its like...and we all lived happily ever after forever.



Thank god this one isnt one of those books.

couldnt have said it any better. by far the best series i have ever read too bad its done but it was a sweet ass ride.

[Macros]

This book redeemed the flawed piece that I thought DoD was.
If you take the two as a whole it makes a far superior (albiet lenghty) product. I still maintain that the series was a 9 book project that was mistakenly sold as ten. And to stretch the canvas every cool/random thing that ice and se had ever created in their table toppling days was thrown in, either irrelevant or shoehorned to fit.

Regardless, cg was a solid finale, will never be my favourite of the series, that will forever be DG, but a conclusion to plenty of story lines, and some left open are clearly for continuation, we know there's nearly ten more books coming, and we know grub ends up a fist at least so the bonehunters di return to the empire.
My biggest gripe with the book stands for the last 3/4 I'm simply not sharp enough for them, so many things came outa nowhere or made no sense until I Sat and really thought back through the series. Hmm, maybe the foreshadowing was too obscure in places,to much assumption ofthe readers competence.
I'm nit making much sense, I'll stew on it for a while and post when I'm on the laptop