[Dolmen 2.0]

Hope so. It's been massively entertaining to watch. The premise might follow the typical harem format but the idea and execution of this show is impressive.

The battle for the library was inspired and I hope they give every Exceed the same level of attention as they have Werebeast, imanity, Elves and Flugal. The NGNL world structure in itself is really fascinating, lascivious as hell, but really really intelligent show. Really appreciate the Reccomend.

This post has been edited by Dolmen Weeks: 23 June 2014 - 04:41 PM

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Were this an average everyday, not-sure-where-it's-going show I'd agree with you...but here we are talking about an epic that will be 1000 episodes long when done and has been planned out as such by Oda...that makes the 20th episode page 20 of a 1000-page epic. At page 20 you wouldn't even know all the characters or their motivations.

Oh, and given all the "it's the Malazan of anime" statements being thrown out by you guys, this is a terrible comparison, QT! MBotF is (very roughly) 10x1000 pages, so being 20 episodes into OP should be like being 200 pages into GotM, which is pretty substantial. You'd already be done the Itko Kan arc, the Pale arc and have started the Darujhistan arc already. There would already have been a titanic clash of armies and mages, several major character deaths and a couple resurrections!

Which is now getting me thinking about a GotM anime. The Pale Enfilade as the episode 13 mid-season climax? You could do some early introduction of the BBs and more build-up to Pale - maybe start the Pale arc a little earlier than in the book so Hairlock, Calot, etc get a bigger introduction and show Hairlock's meeting with WJ and co in the tunnels. Then end episode 12 with Tayschrenn's arrival and meeting, last line being that they will attack at Dawn or even last scene being in the morning when the Moon's Spawn stops rotating and Rake appears. Then episode 13 is 23 minutes of total carnage and mindfuckery.

Episodes 14-26 the whole Darujhistan arc to the end of GotM. Start episode 14 with the Phoenix Inn regulars just to piss everybody off after Pale

and if it sells well, make a season 2 of DG!



PS, Future Diary is a perverted anime. But the music is good.

[Luperci]

Just finished the original Ghost in the Shell movie from 95, forgot how good of a movie that is. Anyone else watch anime movies and have any suggestions, I know we've talked alot about series's but how many good anime movies that arent connected to shows are there?

[Dolmen 2.0]

D, on 23 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Were this an average everyday, not-sure-where-it's-going show I'd agree with you...but here we are talking about an epic that will be 1000 episodes long when done and has been planned out as such by Oda...that makes the 20th episode page 20 of a 1000-page epic. At page 20 you wouldn't even know all the characters or their motivations.

Oh, and given all the "it's the Malazan of anime" statements being thrown out by you guys, this is a terrible comparison, QT! MBotF is (very roughly) 10x1000 pages, so being 20 episodes into OP should be like being 200 pages into GotM, which is pretty substantial. You'd already be done the Itko Kan arc, the Pale arc and have started the Darujhistan arc already. There would already have been a titanic clash of armies and mages, several major character deaths and a couple resurrections!

Which is now getting me thinking about a GotM anime. The Pale Enfilade as the episode 13 mid-season climax? You could do some early introduction of the BBs and more build-up to Pale - maybe start the Pale arc a little earlier than in the book so Hairlock, Calot, etc get a bigger introduction and show Hairlock's meeting with WJ and co in the tunnels. Then end episode 12 with Tayschrenn's arrival and meeting, last line being that they will attack at Dawn or even last scene being in the morning when the Moon's Spawn stops rotating and Rake appears. Then episode 13 is 23 minutes of total carnage and mindfuckery.

Episodes 14-26 the whole Darujhistan arc to the end of GotM. Start episode 14 with the Phoenix Inn regulars just to piss everybody off after Pale

and if it sells well, make a season 2 of DG!



PS, Future Diary is a perverted anime. But the music is good.

In an anime would you start at Gotm?

I imagine Knight of Knives might work as an introductory arc? just a thought though. I like your outlook just keep reading about how a good story is introduced based off its most pivotal aspect. In a way events in NoK set the ball in motion for most of tCG and delivers better context for GotM than we'd normally get. Also we get to meet juggernauts before we realize they are juggernauts which adds a nice twist. Graphics wise NoK Arc would hardly be more than 6 episodes condensed around Temper and Kiska... not sure if that changes anything. You'd still manage to get most of the good stuff in 26 episodes I think.

[Dolmen 2.0]

CapedCrusader, on 23 June 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Just finished the original Ghost in the Shell movie from 95, forgot how good of a movie that is. Anyone else watch anime movies and have any suggestions, I know we've talked alot about series's but how many good anime movies that arent connected to shows are there?

The list goes:

Anything by Studio Gibli (My Neighbour Totoro, Howls Moving Castle, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Nausicaa etc)

The Girl who Leapt through time

Summer Wars (definately!)

Laputa is a golden oldie

Sword of the Stranger

Ghost in the Shell to Ghost in the Shell SAC (all four back to back)

Vampire Hunter D 1 & 2

I'd Say maybe try a few Ninja Scrolls OVAs if you're into that type of thing.

[QuickTidal]

Dolmen Weeks, on 23 June 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

CapedCrusader, on 23 June 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Just finished the original Ghost in the Shell movie from 95, forgot how good of a movie that is. Anyone else watch anime movies and have any suggestions, I know we've talked alot about series's but how many good anime movies that arent connected to shows are there?

The list goes:

Anything by Studio Gibli (My Neighbour Totoro, Howls Moving Castle, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Nausicaa etc)

The Girl who Leapt through time

Summer Wars (definately!)

Laputa is a golden oldie

Sword of the Stranger

Ghost in the Shell to Ghost in the Shell SAC (all four back to back)

Vampire Hunter D 1 & 2

I'd Say maybe try a few Ninja Scrolls OVAs if you're into that type of thing.

SUMMER WARS! SO GOOD.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 23 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Oh, and given all the "it's the Malazan of anime" statements being thrown out by you guys, this is a terrible comparison, QT! MBotF is (very roughly) 10x1000 pages, so being 20 episodes into OP should be like being 200 pages into GotM, which is pretty substantial.

Nah, the math is if this is 1000 episodes long as a run, then each ep equates to a page and thus 20 eps is 20 pages.

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

Except 20 pages is about 3 minutes of work vs. 7 hours to watch 20 episodes. Even on an apples-to-apples time comparison, I'd almost rather spend it on a 1200 page mediocre book than a 20 episode mediocre TV series. To me, Silencer has the patience of Job if he's still willing to go into the 30+ eps when the previous haven't done anything for him. I'll hit the eject button about an hour in if I'm not entertained by then. Life is long, but it's not THAT long.

After being mildly entertained by the Vol. 1 manga, I'll probably check out ep 1 of the anime, just because it's getting so much buzz. But I don't see myself watching 500+ episodes of ANYTHING...not when I could spend that time consuming 25 or so completed short-run series instead...

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

D, on 23 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Oh, and given all the "it's the Malazan of anime" statements being thrown out by you guys, this is a terrible comparison, QT! MBotF is (very roughly) 10x1000 pages, so being 20 episodes into OP should be like being 200 pages into GotM, which is pretty substantial.

Nah, the math is if this is 1000 episodes long as a run, then each ep equates to a page and thus 20 eps is 20 pages.

Ok, well I don't think I could stand to read a 1000-page book where each page takes 22 minutes to read, so what was the point of this comparison again?

[QuickTidal]

D, on 23 June 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

D, on 23 June 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

Oh, and given all the "it's the Malazan of anime" statements being thrown out by you guys, this is a terrible comparison, QT! MBotF is (very roughly) 10x1000 pages, so being 20 episodes into OP should be like being 200 pages into GotM, which is pretty substantial.

Nah, the math is if this is 1000 episodes long as a run, then each ep equates to a page and thus 20 eps is 20 pages.

Ok, well I don't think I could stand to read a 1000-page book where each page takes 22 minutes to read, so what was the point of this comparison again?

I think the intention of the comparison is merely to express that if a story is ostensibly going to be 333 (give or take) hours long, then taking 6 hours of it and judging it might miss something.

I'm not one to defend that something "will get better, just wait"...and I don't think that's what is happening here. I think larger pieces of the narrative don't come together till later...so for example Coby, who in the pilot or thereabouts is not only a wussy, whiner irritation, but is seemingly a throw-away character to show contrast to Luffy's selfless (and sometimes stupid) bravery...but everything and everyone has a point in Oda's world and Coby is no exception. Though it's much later that things begin to happen concerning Coby, the point is that he wasn't there as the seeming filler he was...he had a purpose and a depth we just hadn't seen develop yet. The same goes for the villain of that first arc.

Another example I might use...Sirius Black. If you read/watched only half of HP & THE PRISONER Of AZKABAN you'd assume that Sirius was a villain, that he'd done all the things he was accused of, and that he was out to kill Harry. His real purpose, personality and backstory only come to light late in that book and moreso in the next two.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 June 2014 - 06:36 PM

[D'rek]

More random future diary thoughts:

--The censor is weird. Nudity is okay, but getting stabbed in the eye needs to be blurred out?
--I have a serious anime pet peeve of characters repeatedly, whiningly, saying another character's name and only their name. If it just happens a little bit it's okay, but some shows (like this one) do it waaaaaay too much!
--I love characters who have tragic backstories that could believably make them either good or evil, and they seem nice and then turn on the protaganists. They make good mini-boss fights. I sense another one of these coming up though, and I don't think it is going to be as believable.
--She's blind and her parents died in a tragic accident when she was young, you didn't need to randomly add "oh and everyone raped her" to her backstory. Sigh. See above about this being a perverted anime... I guess I shouldn't be surprised it went there.

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

I think the intention of the comparison is merely to express that if a story is ostensibly going to be 333 (give or take) hours long, then taking 6 hours of it and judging it might miss something.

I dunno. I haven't watched the first 20 episodes of One Piece so I can't knowledgeably comment on it in particular. But regardless of what something is or how long it is expected to be, the first 6 hours are still the first 6 whole hours! That's a significant time investment!

The first 3 hours of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms mini-series being overall too boring and uninteresting was enough for me to decide not to watch it all the way through and just skip to the handful of episodes I wanted to see.

To keep the MBotF comparison going, if the first 200 pages of GotM had scarcely introduced the characters and not setup any important plot or had any major developments, do you think we'd all have become devoted enough fans to be here debating this? Or do you think, regardless of how good the rest of the series turned out to be the first 200 pages of GotM would have put us off the whole series instead?

[QuickTidal]

D, on 23 June 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

To keep the MBotF comparison going, if the first 200 pages of GotM had scarcely introduced the characters and not setup any important plot or had any major developments, do you think we'd all have become devoted enough fans to be here debating this? Or do you think, regardless of how good the rest of the series turned out to be the first 200 pages of GotM would have put us off the whole series instead?

Should this be the spot where I talk about how all the Phoenix Inn regulars in Darujhistan aren't introduced till like page 400 (can't recall exact page, but it's at least the second book within GotM)?

IMO there is enough good stuff in the first 20 eps of OP to keep a person going till they hit the Arc that sells them (be in Arlong or whatever)...it's not like it's 20 eps of crap or something, it's just not got its bootstraps pulled all the way up yet. Like the first season of a live action TV show (PERSON OF INTEREST comes to mind) that hasn't fully grounded itself with the audience yet even after 24 eps, but it's going there and there have been enough eps to say "Yeah, this might be worth it down the line if I'm patient".

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 June 2014 - 07:29 PM

[amphibian]

There's also a difference between a storyteller who wants to tell a story that'll extend a long, long time and a storyteller who wants to be in and out in a couple hours.

One is going to drip, drop character info over a period of time in a way that demands patience from the viewer/reader/listener. The other is going to make it super clear upfront what the characters are and what they do to the viewer/reader/listener, without much in the way of subtlety.

Both approaches have validity and there are great/terrible examples of both. I think people who really like one or the other will get "used" to it and have trouble switching at times. From what I can tell in this thread, One Piece seems to hit people who like the shorter stories in a way that's jarring or off-putting. There's no high school settings or really familiar/possibly over-used character stereotypes and it basically requires that you be okay with the irrepressibility of Luffy at regular intervals.

Edit: Because One Piece regularly goes for long story arcs and has many fully realized characters, the animators regularly include recap portions of what has just gone on to help kids (as this airs at a time the whole Japanese family watches tv) keep up with what happened last week. That's a commonly used tactic in many places and for many Western and non-Western shows, but anime fans on here are usually going to be older, binge watching and will find it easier to keep in mind what happened last episode. So skip the recaps, jump directly to the new stuff.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 23 June 2014 - 08:01 PM

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Should this be the spot where I talk about how all the Phoenix Inn regulars in Darujhistan aren't introduced till like page 400 (can't recall exact page, but it's at least the second book within GotM)?

We're probably talking different formats. In the ~750 page Bantam mmpb Book Two starts on page 169.

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

IMO there is enough good stuff in the first 20 eps of OP to keep a person going till they hit the Arc that sells them (be in Arlong or whatever)...it's not like it's 20 eps of crap or something, it's just not got its bootstraps pulled all the way up yet. Like the first season of a live action TV show (PERSON OF INTEREST comes to mind) that hasn't fully grounded itself with the audience yet even after 24 eps, but it's going there and there have been enough eps to say "Yeah, this might be worth it down the line if I'm patient".

That does indeed happen, and in some cases I'm sure it pays off. But I think it's also totally understandable for someone to be skeptical/cautious and if they are not impressed by a low-key start to give up on it.

And I think to some extent Silencer is right in that we would normally be critical of something developing this slowly at its start if it were being released now rather than an already-existant 700-episode series. OTOH, I'm sure people were hard on OP when it did first come out and the context is indeed different now.

[amphibian]

There are valid criticisms to make of early One Piece though. The art really isn't as nice and pretty as that of other series, but it does have a certain charm to it once you get used to it. There's a few small story/character mis-steps, as well.

I think QuickTidal and I believe that they're infrequent speed bumps, rather than road blocks, on a road to somewhere pretty phenomenal. That's why we're pushing so hard for you to give in to our suasion and watch the show.

[QuickTidal]

Indeed, and I was even a skeptic before I started to watch the show. I even recall telling Amph how crap it seemed when I gave it the first try. But it hooked me irrevocably since then.

[amphibian]

D, on 23 June 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

More random future diary thoughts:

--The censor is weird. Nudity is okay, but getting stabbed in the eye needs to be blurred out?
--I have a serious anime pet peeve of characters repeatedly, whiningly, saying another character's name and only their name. If it just happens a little bit it's okay, but some shows (like this one) do it waaaaaay too much!
--I love characters who have tragic backstories that could believably make them either good or evil, and they seem nice and then turn on the protaganists. They make good mini-boss fights. I sense another one of these coming up though, and I don't think it is going to be as believable.
--She's blind and her parents died in a tragic accident when she was young, you didn't need to randomly add "oh and everyone raped her" to her backstory. Sigh. See above about this being a perverted anime... I guess I shouldn't be surprised it went there.

This anime actually did all those things in the early going? And you don't trust the writing staff to handle it well?

Looks like an easy "NOOOPE" to me.

[LinearPhilosopher]

CapedCrusader, on 23 June 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Just finished the original Ghost in the Shell movie from 95, forgot how good of a movie that is. Anyone else watch anime movies and have any suggestions, I know we've talked alot about series's but how many good anime movies that arent connected to shows are there?

5cm per second.
summer wars

D, on 23 June 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 June 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

I think the intention of the comparison is merely to express that if a story is ostensibly going to be 333 (give or take) hours long, then taking 6 hours of it and judging it might miss something.

I dunno. I haven't watched the first 20 episodes of One Piece so I can't knowledgeably comment on it in particular. But regardless of what something is or how long it is expected to be, the first 6 hours are still the first 6 whole hours! That's a significant time investment!

The first 3 hours of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms mini-series being overall too boring and uninteresting was enough for me to decide not to watch it all the way through and just skip to the handful of episodes I wanted to see.

To keep the MBotF comparison going, if the first 200 pages of GotM had scarcely introduced the characters and not setup any important plot or had any major developments, do you think we'd all have become devoted enough fans to be here debating this? Or do you think, regardless of how good the rest of the series turned out to be the first 200 pages of GotM would have put us off the whole series instead?

Really you gave up on Romance of three kingdoms? Wait was this the 2009~ version? I was hooked from the start though it's probably cause im a huge RoTK junkie (minus the books which are badly written). Granted i did take breaks every so often but i enjoyed it. The guy played Tsao tsao was amazing.

Also i'm now hooked on fairy tail. Yes despite there being countless great shows on my list like monster, steins gate and when they cry, i choose fucking fairy tail...

I don't know why but im enjoying it. Im enjoying most the characters and im liking the interations as well as how the characters are growing off each other. Even the side characters have depth (though it isn't given at the start that's to be expected). Plot is nothing spectacular really, but
via Imgflip Meme Maker
In fact i can safely say good plot is irrelevant to the success of a shounen (coughbleachcoughnarutocough)

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 24 June 2014 - 02:53 AM

[Silencer]

On the note of movies...

Hotarubi no Moro e

Is really good for the tragedy/tearjerker variety ( thanks for reminding me with mention of 5cm/s , BL, lol).

On my phone, so I won't do any more OP debate stuff until I have a proper PC. XD