[QuickTidal]

Tapper, on 30 May 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

However, for the first time in the series, I had major beef with a scene as I thought Drogo's tribal dance speech was ridiculous (the only thing missing to make it slapstick was a few good ol' exaggerated hip pumps when he said he was going to rape the sheep women). Jason Momoa is fine as long as he's busy looking like the love child of a bearded collie and Gene Simmon's make up artist matched by IVF in a can of steroids, but he just can't act on the same level as the people around him who are chosen less for looks and more for ability, and especially not in a fake language.

Yeah, this scene was pretty funny all tol and I'm sure it's not meant to be. I didn't have a problem with it so much as I thought it Dothraki overkill.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

... I didn't have a problem with it so much as I thought it Dothraki overkill.

Yeah but to be fair, utter overkill was the only way that scene was going to work. It's the guy from Stargate Atlantis jumping around in eyeshadow and a corset, yelling in a fake language... at that point it's go over the top or go home time!

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 30 May 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

... I didn't have a problem with it so much as I thought it Dothraki overkill.

Yeah but to be fair, utter overkill was the only way that scene was going to work. It's the guy from Stargate Atlantis jumping around in eyeshadow and a corset, yelling in a fake language... at that point it's go over the top or go home time!

Touché.

LOL.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 May 2011 - 08:05 PM

[Tyr]

DANY IS SO BOSS OMG WOWWOWOWOWO DROGO WOWOWOWOW.

[Gothos]

Tywin's scene was absolutely brilliant. Sets Tywin up as a character perfectly. A hard man, who's not afraid to get his hands dirty, and utterly devoted to his family. Next to him Jaime - one of the deadliest swordsmen in the realm, perhaps in the history of Westeros, a King's Guardsman second only to Barristan Selmy, the slayer of Aerys II, looks like a little wimp.

Also, Drogo's moment was amusing enough :]

[worry]

I don't see what's so ridiculous about it. It probably plays pretty much exactly like it has been done by numerous war-tribe cultures throughout history. The rage was palpable, as was the tried and true method of pumping up your warriors through grand language, promises of plunder, etc. His transition from anger, to concern, to tenderness, to gratefulness (towards Jorah), to genuine rage, to the crafty manipulative histrionic rage necessary to convince his warriors that traveling across the ocean is a necessary and worthy path...I can't find fault with the writing or the performance there at all.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 30 May 2011 - 08:33 PM

[Abyss]

worrywort, on 30 May 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

I don't see what's so ridiculous about it. It probably plays pretty much exactly like it has been done by numerous war-tribe cultures throughout history. The rage was palpable, as was the tried and true method of pumping up your warriors through grand language, promises of plunder, etc. His transition from anger, to concern, to tenderness, to gratefulness (towards Jorah), to genuine rage, to the crafty manipulative histrionic rage necessary to convince his warriors that traveling across the ocean is a necessary and worthy path...I can't find fault with the writing or the performance there at all.

All true... but... eyeshadow and a corset.

[Ulrik]

worrywort, on 30 May 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

I don't see what's so ridiculous about it. It probably plays pretty much exactly like it has been done by numerous war-tribe cultures throughout history. The rage was palpable, as was the tried and true method of pumping up your warriors through grand language, promises of plunder, etc. His transition from anger, to concern, to tenderness, to gratefulness (towards Jorah), to genuine rage, to the crafty manipulative histrionic rage necessary to convince his warriors that traveling across the ocean is a necessary and worthy path...I can't find fault with the writing or the performance there at all.

I support you, sir! For me it was really chilling scene. Slow warming up to red fury "infecting" his warrior. It didnt work like "OK, boys, they pissed me, so break our tradition and let sail". For waking up your men, you have fakinly good speech:) Even crusaders needed some andrenaline pumpin. And yeah, Pope probably left part with raping, but... its always same...

So for me, Drogo´s part was great.

I liked one thing - whole lesbian scene and its meaning...which was that its nothin real, just damned theatre with reality formed by Petyr´s monologue.

[worry]

I agree with that. I don't mind gratuitous sex and nudity at all anyway, and I actually appreciate HBO's efforts on the level of demystifying, deshaming, and depuritanizing sex on TV. But in this case, it was more than just window dressing to watch while you listen to Littlefinger's motives. Not to say it wasn't still window dressing, just that it was also more than that. He might be turned on by the visual, it might also be a power play since he's a pimp and they are employees, but mostly he was teaching the women something about the world they live in, and teaching the audience something about himself...I don't think it was a perfect scene, cuz it was kind of obviously trying to do both of those things, but it worked for me anyway. He clearly considers himself a puppetmaster, but he's not entirely cold about it...he's reasonable AND ambitious AND vengeful AND emotional, and is very good at juggling all of these things to suit his goals.

[Tapper]

worrywort, on 30 May 2011 - 08:33 PM, said:

I don't see what's so ridiculous about it. It probably plays pretty much exactly like it has been done by numerous war-tribe cultures throughout history. The rage was palpable, as was the tried and true method of pumping up your warriors through grand language, promises of plunder, etc. His transition from anger, to concern, to tenderness, to gratefulness (towards Jorah), to genuine rage, to the crafty manipulative histrionic rage necessary to convince his warriors that traveling across the ocean is a necessary and worthy path...I can't find fault with the writing or the performance there at all.

Oh, I agree there was nothing wrong with the contents of the speech or the gesticulating. What was absolutely 100% wrong was the audience it was delivered to.

Such theatrics are a necessity when speaking to a mass of people. However, this was an intimate group of his officers, bloodriders, his wife, the trusted advisor and savior of his wife (Jorah), a few of her slaves and perhaps a religious person or two - instead of delivered to his horde, it was a gathering in a tent and there were around 20 people present in that scene, one of whom was intended to have a very unpleasant ending to his life in a reasonably short time.

These elite trustees don't want righteous or staged rage. They want to know that this isn't done on a whim to please his wife or his unborn son or avenge the murder attempt on her, but by cold calculations that crossing the sea is not madness, that there is a plan, that victory will be theirs, that spoils will be theirs and if so how much and what kind, and perhaps most of all, that their leader is sane and in control. They don't want to pointlessly risk what riches and fame they have now without knowing they can keep it or earn more.
There is a reason why warrior societies tend to be very conservative and the reason is that the haves are at the top and the have nots are going to have to risk it all to become haves, and risk it all for the benefit of the haves.

In all aspects, to a viewer with such expectations, the speech should have backfired spectacularly.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 30 May 2011 - 10:20 PM

[worry]

Yah, that's definitely a good point, but as with all Dothraki scenes, we have to CGI in the rest of the tribe ourselves.

[Tapper]

worrywort, on 30 May 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Yah, that's definitely a good point, but as with all Dothraki scenes, we have to CGI in the rest of the tribe ourselves.

And you win

I actually would love a movie like that. Two butt naked people, ugly and aged, and just have subitles that go:

Imagine Tim Burton backgrounds. Imagine these people are beautiful. Imagine they are clothed. Imagine they are talking. Imagine they disagree. Imagine they start to gather friends. Now imagine that there are a hundred thousand to a side. Imagine you are watching 300 for choreographed gore. Imagine this goes on for 120 more minutes. With elephants. And samurai. And nukes. And a sex scene. End of movie.

And the best thing is, you can show it 30 times per night and will probably win some award for it as well.

[Traveller]

Is it just me that thinks that tunnel under the wall was way too big? <br><br>Having it in the first place is a supremely bad idea (like the man-sized grate in the wall of the Hornberg in LotR's) but at least in the book it was small enough to make people walk in a single line. The wildlings could probably fit a mammoth through the one on tv. <br><br>I still don't get why they have a fucking great wall to keep things out, and then go and stick a door in it.<br><br>(also like 'Kong' - great big wall, with a monster ape sized door in it. Why?!!)

This post has been edited by Traveller: 31 May 2011 - 08:53 AM

[Gothos]

Got to keep the treeline away, and a wall always needs an avenue to go out on a sortie.

[Gothos]

A side note: the buddy at work I reccommended this to? He's loving it now. Spread the word!

[Traveller]

Gothos, on 31 May 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

Got to keep the treeline away, and a wall always needs an avenue to go out on a sortie.

I know they have to head out, but better to have a winch system on the north side than a tunnel.

Also, the tunnel is described as having gates in it, with murder holes above them - so I was never sure how Donal Noye got into that clinch with the giant in the first place.
They should have at least had sections of collapsible roof to bring down in case of an attack.

Weird watching this after reading it, as scenes of great impact in the book seem to lose that impact on screen - possibly just because I know what's coming.

[Ulrik]

Traveller, on 31 May 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Weird watching this after reading it, as scenes of great impact in the book seem to lose that impact on screen - possibly just because I know what's coming.

Really? For me its rather sad... like Drogo´s promise. And I still have to keep poker face for my wife...

[Ceda Cicero]

Tyr, on 30 May 2011 - 08:29 PM, said:

DANY IS SO BOSS OMG WOWWOWOWOWO DROGO WOWOWOWOW.

Man for someone who actually makes some decent points about characters you don't like and actually has a lot to offer by way of intelligent analysis, you really do go out of your way sometimes to just be plain irritating, don't you?

[Traveller]

Ulrik, on 31 May 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

Traveller, on 31 May 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Weird watching this after reading it, as scenes of great impact in the book seem to lose that impact on screen - possibly just because I know what's coming.

Really? For me its rather sad... like Drogo´s promise. And I still have to keep poker face for my wife...

I'm having to do that too. It's quite difficult in places - when Viserys was jumping up and down shouting 'I will be crowned' earlier on, I really had to bite my tongue.

And everytime Eddard is on screen, I want to quote Jaime from SoS... 'poor dead Ned!'

[QuickTidal]

Ulrik, on 31 May 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

Traveller, on 31 May 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Weird watching this after reading it, as scenes of great impact in the book seem to lose that impact on screen - possibly just because I know what's coming.

Really? For me its rather sad... like Drogo´s promise. And I still have to keep poker face for my wife...

Yeah, my poker face is continuously on with my gf and her sister...Every time they say they like Ned, or that they hope Joffrey get's what's coming to him soon, or that they hope Arya and Jon are reunited....I have to keep such a straight face.