[Ceda Cicero]

In any case, we'll certainly get answers, or the beginnings of answers, to these questions about R'hllor, the gods, magic, and the Azor Ahai (sp?) prophecies in DANCE, since Mel is a PoV character. I'm not expecting any massive reveals - GRRM will probably play her close to the vest. But even if all we get is a few glimpses into these things in her chapters, as I've said elsewhere, it'll be more than we've gotten in the first four books combined, I'll bet.

[Traveller]

It's certainly true that all the events seen in the flames came true. And the burning of the three leeches, one for each usurper - it worked, by design or chance, all 3 kings were dead in a matter of days.

She didn't see Davos smuggling the boy away though; that caught her out a bit.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

That's because the flames don't show all. And sometimes she doesn't understand what they're telling. For example at one point she sees Renly defeating Stannis's army and so she uses the shadow to kill Renly but then we find out that it's actually the Lannister-Tyrell forces with Garlan in Renly's armour.

Also, at Westeros.com many think that Azor Azai and the Prince Who Was Promised are the same prophecy and it's clear that Dany is at least the latter.

[Ulrik]

Couldnt Dany just die? After reread of third book, she is sooo annoying. And can someone tell her, that her father was sadistic psychopath and her brother iirc, rapist? And kill those pretty dragons? Better to be overrun by Others than have arrogant hypocrisial teen on Iron Throne...

But to powers... maybe there is only Rhllor and Other... ehm, amybe Others are through time deformed name Other´s

[MTS]

God, I've forgotten so much about this series since I last read it...

[Ulrik]

Mwhahaha... my fried, who call himself "cynical" just got Red Wedding. And is pretty unable to digest it... Well, this break many readers. Im supporting him that it doesnt mean "there is no good"

[Ceda Cicero]

 Ulrik, on 28 May 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

Couldnt Dany just die? After reread of third book, she is sooo annoying. And can someone tell her, that her father was sadistic psychopath and her brother iirc, rapist? And kill those pretty dragons? Better to be overrun by Others than have arrogant hypocrisial teen on Iron Throne...

But to powers... maybe there is only Rhllor and Other... ehm, amybe Others are through time deformed name Other´s

To your last point, Idunno... The Many Faced God/the Stranger seems to have some potency, as the Faceless Men do wield real power and likely derive it neither from Ice or Fire (R'hllor/the Great Other.)

And Rhaegar was almost certainly not a rapist. That's what Robert thought, and that was a popular (possibly the most popular) view of his relationship with Lyanna Stark. But there's enough writing on the wall (pun semi-intended) to suggest that this is not even remotely close to being the case.

Mel is clearly far from all knowing, and no where near as well-informed as she thinks. Still, her background and her abilities, regardless of how erroneous her views are beliefs are, are way more "in the know" generally than any other PoV we've yet gotten in terms of the systems of gods and magic in this series.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 29 May 2011 - 01:32 AM

[Ulrik]

 Ceda Cicero, on 29 May 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

And Rhaegar was almost certainly not a rapist. That's what Robert thought, and that was a popular (possibly the most popular) view of his relationship with Lyanna Stark. But there's enough writing on the wall (pun semi-intended) to suggest that this is not even remotely close to being the case.

Well yeah. Not certainly, but Selmy´s remembering suggest opposite. But Selmy has also tendency to see or at least speak about Targarens only good. But yeah, Rhaegar looks in SoS much better.

For gods - I hope that there are other powers... Maybe even Drowned "Now I finally come" God

[QuickTidal]

Am sad....since I already watched episode 7 last week....there is no new episode for me this week. Boo!

[Ceda Cicero]

 QuickTidal, on 29 May 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Am sad....since I already watched episode 7 last week....there is no new episode for me this week. Boo!

Same here. My solution? No work tomorrow, so get drunk and watch ep 7 again.

[QuickTidal]

 Ceda Cicero, on 29 May 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 29 May 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Am sad....since I already watched episode 7 last week....there is no new episode for me this week. Boo!

Same here. My solution? No work tomorrow, so get drunk and watch ep 7 again.

An excellent idea...only I do work tomorrow...booo

[Abyss]

 Tapper, on 27 May 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 27 May 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

...
There are straight Lordlings without major personality disorders or unreasonbale honour fixations who don't like whores?????

Tywin Lannister says he doesn't. ....

Sure but based on later events with Shae we know this isn't the case.

Speaking of Shae...

 Ceda Cicero, on 28 May 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

 D, on 27 May 2011 - 07:08 PM, said:

Watched ep 6, everything about it has already been said except this: what was the point of the Theon/Roz scene? Seemed pretty out-of-place and useless to me.

Might be reaching, but possibly just the bit where Roz talks about how Jaime just attacked Ned in the streets of KL, and soon all the men of the North will be marching off to war. As a reader, knowing that what she says is 100% true, that bit kinda chilled me. ...

 SpectreofEschaton, on 28 May 2011 - 03:50 AM, said:

 Tapper, on 27 May 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

Tywin Lannister says he doesn't.

*opens can of worms* The whole Shae thing was a set-up by Varys! *runs away*

I could be wrong, but i think that rather than intro a completely new ho, the tv show is setting Roz up for the eventual role Shae fills in the books.

This way, rather than a random whore Bronn digs up for Tyrion, we have an established character with an existing relationship to Tyrion, Theon and Littlefinger so far... which also means her eventual death at Tyrion's hands has that much more impact.

Remember, you read it here first.

 Traveller, on 28 May 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

I've been reading through the series again. Am I right in thinking that Stannis' god of light is responsible for Beric Dondarrion being brought repeatedly back to life? (through Thoros?) And that Melissandra has in fact got the wrong person (Stannis) ....

 worrywort, on 28 May 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

It does appear that Melissandre has the wrong person, though that doesn't necessarily mean Thoros has the right person. The source of Beric's rejuvenations is, at least to me, still a mystery. But that's because I am not yet convinced that R'hllor exists. Could be the Many-Faced God for all we know. What we do know is that supernatural stuff exists in this world, and that many different gods are worshiped. ...

It would be interesting to see more than just the 'Ice' (Others) and 'Fire' (Mellissandre/Rhllor) powers involved. In the books we have seen that 'Fire' is far from cuddly, and the mysterious figure supposedly recruiting Bran would seem to suggest 'Ice' isn't all zombies and death.

 Ulrik, on 28 May 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

Mwhahaha... my fried, who call himself "cynical" just got Red Wedding. And is pretty unable to digest it... Well, this break many readers. Im supporting him that it doesnt mean "there is no good"

Seriously, after Ned's outcome, in the second season, given a bit more build up of Robb, the Red Wedding is absolutely going to leave non-book viewers FURIOUS.



EPISODE 7 was great, especially for what was essentially 98% talking heads with some barely seen action right at the end.

Ned and Cersei's chat was SO very very loaded, as was Ned's with Littlefinger. I really enjoyed Jon and Sam's scenes too. And that last scene was just fucked... Ned handing over the paper and Cersei just tearing it up was priceless.

I go back and forth over Drogo's flexing flexing rampage, but given what we've seen of the character and the Dothracki generally, it worked and i liked how it built on Drogo's scene with Dany and the failed assassination attempt. Emilia Clarke is really nailing the 'ominous pleased look'.


One small flaw i'm noticing. i realize it's a well wron tool in fiction to refer repeatedly to a character so that when they are finally introduced there is a certain level of expectation, but on tv that really really doesn't work as well... case in point the repeated references to Stannis. Iirc we don't even see him until book 2 or so, so there is a lot of wasted time on him imnsho. My non-book-reading viewing companion asked who this 'spanish person they keep referring to is supposed to be?'.

[QuickTidal]

 Abyss, on 30 May 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

I could be wrong, but i think that rather than intro a completely new ho, the tv show is setting Roz up for the eventual role Shae fills in the books.

Alas, no. German actress Sibel Kekilli has been cast as Shae, officially.

I truly think Roz's bigger part is due solely to HBO wanting to have beefed up Theon's plot and intro for season 2. I don't think Roz is going to be anything big down the line, and I feel they used her in King's Landing...cause why hire another actress for a new whore (for the lesbo scene), when they had one heading down to KL anyways.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 May 2011 - 04:56 PM

[QuickTidal]

Also, did NO ONE else find it supremely badass for Tywin to be fucking skinning a buck for the whole first scene in ep 7? That was my second fave scene beyond the betrayal scene in the throne room.

[amphibian]

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

Alas, no. German actress Sibel Kekilli has been cast as Shae, officially.

I saw Head On last year and let me tell you, Sibel will probably be every bit Dinklage's equal during their scenes together. The woman can act.

This is another example of the casting people hitting a home run that has yet to be seen by the masses.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Also, did NO ONE else find it supremely badass for Tywin to be fucking skinning a buck for the whole first scene in ep 7? That was my second fave scene beyond the betrayal scene in the throne room.

Actually that scene did not convince me. In my mind Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock,Warden of the West, richest and most powerful man in the realm, would never wear a butcher's apron.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 31 May 2011 - 03:45 PM

[Abyss]

 amphibian, on 30 May 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

Alas, no. German actress Sibel Kekilli has been cast as Shae, officially.

I saw Head On last year and let me tell you, Sibel will probably be every bit Dinklage's equal during their scenes together. The woman can act.

This is another example of the casting people hitting a home run that has yet to be seen by the masses.

Crap, it was SUCH a good theory...

 Bauchelain the Evil, on 30 May 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Also, did NO ONE else find it supremely badass for Tywin to be fucking skinning a buck for the whole first scene in ep 7? That was my second fave scene beyond the betrayal scene in the throne room.

Actually that scene did not convince me. In my mind Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock,Warden of the North, richest and most powerful man in the realm, would never wear a butcher's apron.

I go back and forth but i did snicker when Tywin used the same hand that was just guts deep in the stag to pat Jaeme on the cheek.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

 Abyss, on 30 May 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

 amphibian, on 30 May 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

Alas, no. German actress Sibel Kekilli has been cast as Shae, officially.

I saw Head On last year and let me tell you, Sibel will probably be every bit Dinklage's equal during their scenes together. The woman can act.

This is another example of the casting people hitting a home run that has yet to be seen by the masses.

Crap, it was SUCH a good theory...

 Bauchelain the Evil, on 30 May 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Also, did NO ONE else find it supremely badass for Tywin to be fucking skinning a buck for the whole first scene in ep 7? That was my second fave scene beyond the betrayal scene in the throne room.

Actually that scene did not convince me. In my mind Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock,Warden of the North, richest and most powerful man in the realm, would never wear a butcher's apron.

I go back and forth but i did snicker when Tywin used the same hand that was just guts deep in the stag to pat Jaeme on the cheek.

Agreed. Is it me or did Jaime look a bit disgusted when Tywin did that.

[Tapper]

 Abyss, on 30 May 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

 Tapper, on 27 May 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 27 May 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

...
There are straight Lordlings without major personality disorders or unreasonbale honour fixations who don't like whores?????

Tywin Lannister says he doesn't. ....

Sure but based on later events with Shae we know this isn't the case.

Hence typing 'says' in italics....

Good episode. Tywin skinning the buck was awesome, and unshaven Jaime was also a nice touch. I wonder on how many deer whomever is playing Tywin practiced. I liked the Littlefinger monologue, liked Selmy's confusion in the Throne room, thought Renly's bid for kingship was a nice touch, and the scenes with Jon were good. I also liked the assassination ploy and how it played out with Mormont literally running from his messenger mail to the attempted murder scene.

However, for the first time in the series, I had major beef with a scene as I thought Drogo's tribal dance speech was ridiculous (the only thing missing to make it slapstick was a few good ol' exaggerated hip pumps when he said he was going to rape the sheep women). Jason Momoa is fine as long as he's busy looking like the love child of a bearded collie and Gene Simmon's make up artist matched by IVF in a can of steroids, but he just can't act on the same level as the people around him who are chosen less for looks and more for ability, and especially not in a fake language.

[QuickTidal]

 Bauchelain the Evil, on 30 May 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 30 May 2011 - 04:55 PM, said:

Also, did NO ONE else find it supremely badass for Tywin to be fucking skinning a buck for the whole first scene in ep 7? That was my second fave scene beyond the betrayal scene in the throne room.

Actually that scene did not convince me. In my mind Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock,Warden of the North, richest and most powerful man in the realm, would never wear a butcher's apron.

Tywin is also a commander in his armies, and when called for it he took to the field. A commander who wouldn't get his hands dirty is no commander at all. A true commander must show his soldiers that he will do what he would ask of them. If he was only a lord who did no taking to the field then I could understand your POV, but the Tywin I have always seen is a lord, but also a battle commander. So I feel he totally would wear a butchers apron and skin a deer. In fact it adds weight to the convo he has with Jaime that he is skinning a stag, showing his son what a leader of men does and how sometimes you have to get down and dirty and do shit yourself.