[SpectreofEschaton]

Binder of Demons, on 09 May 2011 - 01:43 AM, said:

pat5150, on 09 May 2011 - 12:15 AM, said:

Joe Abercrombie interviews GRRM here!

Patrick

Cheers for the link Pat.

I love the presenter of that book show, Mariella Frostrup. Sexy voice. Seeing her present the piece, reminded me that the first time I ever saw her on TV was back in the early 90's when she did a late night movie review show on ITV, which was followed by reruns of a little known tv show called BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (starring Linda Hamilton and Ron Perlman no less!). Of course Beauty and the Beast also had a relatively unknown screenwriter working for them then, called......? You may have guessed it. Why, George R.R. Martin of course.
And that's how my movie/tv nerdy brain works.

Did anyone else notice the Erikson and Cook books on the shelves behind her? Thought that was kind of awesome. A shame it wasn't SE they were interviewing about his new HBO adaptation....

[Abyss]

Episode 4...

Y'know, the action to plot ratio is still way low, but this ep had a palpable sense of momentum. Some nasty things building for pretty much everyone and you could feel it.
A little heavy on the talking heads... Viserys and slave girl in the tub, Sansa and her nanny...

On the other hand, we had more Jon training, and finally the Mountain. Nicely played joust there. Sucks to be Sir No-Longer-Appearing-In-This-Series.

Dany standing up to Viserys was almost perfect. She should have used a knife.

Ned finding Robert's bastard, the book and John Arryn's last words were nicely played and oh, that chat with Cersei was loaded.
Jon using Ghost to threaten the guy threatening Sam was perfect.

Sam, as is often the case, looke dolder than expected, and again it works.

Cat marshalling the soldiers at the inn to seize Tyrion was, if anything, better than in the books.

Great show getting better.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Personally,I found it a bit meh.

The scene at the Inn was great and so was Jon threatening Rast but the tournament,for example, was a big let down. And why did they let Littlefinger tell the story of the Hound's burns?

However, I must admit that I liked both Pycelle and Varys. Yes, Varys just says one word but the way he says it is great.

[Ceda Cicero]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 09 May 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Personally,I found it a bit meh.

The scene at the Inn was great and so was Jon threatening Rast but the tournament,for example, was a big let down. And why did they let Littlefinger tell the story of the Hound's burns?

However, I must admit that I liked both Pycelle and Varys. Yes, Varys just says one word but the way he says it is great.

Littlefinger relating the story of the Cleganes was an odd choice, but my guess is they wanted to get that backstory out in the open sooner rather than later because it's compelling in its own right, and because it will give new viewers who have no reason to pay attention to the Hound or the Mountain (no matter how massive he is) more of a nudge to pay attention when they're on screen.

All in all I agree with most everything Abyss said, particularly the talking heads sentiment. This was the first episode that my girlfriend really had trouble staying focused on and she even agreed that it was time for some action. Which, thank God for next week. In addition to the Mountains of the Moon battle sequences we're gonna get a boil over of events in King's Landing, more goodness on the Wall, and probably (if done right) some really, really creepy Dany scenes with the Crones in Vaes Dothrak. Also, Viserys's golden crown is next week too, right? Loved getting a little glimpse of the belt with the golden medallions that will end up melted on his little pin head.

This episode had quite a few scenes written in that didn't occur in the books, but I found myself thinking some of them were my favorite. The Viserys/chick in the bathtub felt clunkiest to me, but the little exchange with Jory and Jaime outside of Robert's bedchamber was absolutely fantastic. Again we see Jaime being an absolute dick but the moment he and Jory start trading war stories he warms up. Then it's back to being a cock just as quickly, with the added bonus of hearing Robert tell a hooker "I'll bet you smell like blackberry jam... C'MERE, LET ME SMELL IT!" in the background.

[End of Disc One]

Ceda, I read somewhere else that we won't see Dany again until episode 6, and we won't see the Wall until episode 7. Not sure how true that is but it makes sense. Episode 6 is called The Golden Crown, which is in two weeks.

[Use Of Weapons]

Haven't yet seen Ep4, but one thing has struck me while watching the 3 so far: is it just me, or does anyone else find it really easy to tell what dialogue is George R R Martin, ripped straight from the books, and what is original to the screenwriters? The actors seem to relish the Martin lines and deliver them much more convincingly than anything else. Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

[Ceda Cicero]

jitsukerr, on 09 May 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

Haven't yet seen Ep4, but one thing has struck me while watching the 3 so far: is it just me, or does anyone else find it really easy to tell what dialogue is George R R Martin, ripped straight from the books, and what is original to the screenwriters? The actors seem to relish the Martin lines and deliver them much more convincingly than anything else. Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

I agree that it's fairly easy to tell the difference, but can't tell how much of that is because I just know immediately whenever there's dialogue that's not directly adapted. Most of the stuff the writers/creators of the show add in still seems cobbled together from stuff that's in the books - the scene with Viserys and the slave girl in the tub, while entirely a product of the writers and appearing no where in the books, contains bits and pieces of text taken from various descriptions of the throne room and the dragon skulls in the first book. The Jaime and Jory scene is much the same - that exchange never happened in the book, but the dialogue is drawn directly from random descriptions of the Siege of Pyke during Greyjoy's Rebellion.

@EoDO, that's good info, and it makes sense. Not sure I can wait two weeks to see Viserys get his crown, but oh well.

[Abyss]

I wonder if that's just because we've read the series and the tone of the GRRM stuff 'pops' more.

Littlefinger telling Sansa the Hound's story was another unnecessary talking heads moment. One throwaway line and a dark look between the brothers would have covered it.

Jory and Jaime's exchange too but the context of their chat and what was going on in the background made it more interesting.

In retrospect, the tournament was a bit lame. The sheer violence of shattering lances and horses charging and big men in heavy armour getting knocked around was a bit lost. Sir Dead Meat didn't really give the Mountain an opportunity to be a badass.

[Ceda Cicero]

Abyss, on 09 May 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

In retrospect, the tournament was a bit lame. The sheer violence of shattering lances and horses charging and big men in heavy armour getting knocked around was a bit lost. Sir Dead Meat didn't really give the Mountain an opportunity to be a badass.

I'm also wondering if I'm confused here. Is there another tournament later? Or was this just the first day and presumably episode 5 will have more tourney stuff? It's got to the be latter, right? Because there are some crucial scenes we didn't get in this episode. Mountain vs. Loras to name just one.

[End of Disc One]

Ceda Cicero, on 09 May 2011 - 03:56 PM, said:

Abyss, on 09 May 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

In retrospect, the tournament was a bit lame. The sheer violence of shattering lances and horses charging and big men in heavy armour getting knocked around was a bit lost. Sir Dead Meat didn't really give the Mountain an opportunity to be a badass.

I'm also wondering if I'm confused here. Is there another tournament later? Or was this just the first day and presumably episode 5 will have more tourney stuff? It's got to the be latter, right? Because there are some crucial scenes we didn't get in this episode. Mountain vs. Loras to name just one.

The tournament will continue into next episode. Several scenes have showed up in trailers.

[Tapper]

Hmm, disagree with some of you. The Arya-on-the-stairs("Syrio says..."), Viserys and his Daeny's sex slave and Littlefinger talking to Sansa scenes were the best moments of this ep, imho. Oh, and Daenerys dealing with her brother. Funnily enough, they're also the feedback thingie.

Littlefinger telling Sansa is a pure straight lead up to them being paired as tutor and pupil/hostage later on. I liked the Ned-Cersei exchange, too. Wasn't too happy with the inn-scene, myself. Cat is overly dramatic. I can't really remember what will come next, with those knights and Bronn (that was Bronn, right?).

The joust was somewhat disappointing, but I guess having extra armour sets, trained horses and a massive group scene with a gazillion extra's would be affecting the budget overly much for what is essentially eye candy and has no real main emphasis for the story except making sure everyone knows Jon Arryn was murdered by the Lannisters and perhaps introducing the Tyrells. Nevertheless, it looked somewhat amateurish and I had expected more pomp and splendor rather than a dirt-ridden cart-track in a forest clearing with a rough wooden platform and two plow horses plus one guy in pewter and the other in glitzy aluminium. But then, we haven't met all of the southern families yet, so the Knight of Flowers may well turn out to have that camelotty hollywood glitter and glamour I missed this episode.
I liked the time Theon got, and it was a nice intro for the background of the Greyjoys.

[Rhand]

Samwell Tarly is RUINED!

Otherwise nice episode. And I'm also of the opinion that Cat in the last scene was way to dramatic.

[Ceda Cicero]

I forgot to say, I had an inkling of it after episode 3, but 4 absolutely sealed it for me - the guys that are playing Grenn and Pyp are absolutely spot on, love whenever they get screen time. I love those characters (esp Pyp) in the books, and I'm pretty certain I'm going to love them on screen.

[pat5150]

I actually liked Sam. That's pretty much how I've always pictured him...

The actors playing Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Aray are really killing it. Awesome work! Love Catelyn Starks too! And Sean Bean is the absolute shit!!!

Patrick

[Ceda Cicero]

pat5150, on 09 May 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

I actually liked Sam. That's pretty much how I've always pictured him...

The actors playing Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Aray are really killing it. Awesome work! Love Catelyn Starks too! And Sean Bean is the absolute shit!!!

Patrick

Catelyn was doing it for me up until the end of this last episode. I agree with the upthread - laid it on a bit too thick in the Inn at the Crossroads. Still, I think she looks the part and with just a few exceptions has been nailing it consistently. Tangentially, I really think Catelyn is one of the most underrated POV characters in the series, though I'm still not quite sure how GRRM is going to handle her now that she's been zombified.

[SpectreofEschaton]

Ceda Cicero, on 09 May 2011 - 08:55 PM, said:

pat5150, on 09 May 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

I actually liked Sam. That's pretty much how I've always pictured him...

The actors playing Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Aray are really killing it. Awesome work! Love Catelyn Starks too! And Sean Bean is the absolute shit!!!

Patrick

Catelyn was doing it for me up until the end of this last episode. I agree with the upthread - laid it on a bit too thick in the Inn at the Crossroads. Still, I think she looks the part and with just a few exceptions has been nailing it consistently. Tangentially, I really think Catelyn is one of the most underrated POV characters in the series, though I'm still not quite sure how GRRM is going to handle her now that she's been zombified.

I just wish their had been a visible coat of arms somewhere on or nearby the men in the inn. That's one of the only scenes so far that I've groaned at. It just came off as... very strange, like we were watching a play or something and had to fill in the gaps with our imagination.

[Cobbles]

I had forgotten how much the characters move around in the early part. Cat following Ned to Kings Landing, then on the way North, dragging Tyrion (who just came back from the Wall) to the Vale. On the other side, Dany crosses half a continent. All in 4-5 episodes.

Anyway, I thought Sam was hilarious. Jon's development races from cocky to disappointment with the night's watch to mentor of new recruits. Very good. Also the situation in King's Landing is caught nicely. It has a sense of imminent danger. On the other hand, there was a bit too much exposition and info dump over this episode. And it was light on the action. My greatest disappointment was with the tournament. But I agree, it would be really expensive to do it right, and it doesn't advance the story much. So likely, most of it was scrapped. I've no problem with reassigning dialogue and inventing some scenes to make exposition simpler and shorter. It was handled well, although it was piled up too much this time. Sansa's history lesson in the throne room, Littlefinger giving the Clegane backstory, the Greyjoy story from both Lannister brothers, the bathtub scene.

Considering that there's several 'main' characters going down this season (Robert, Viserys, Ned, Khal Drogo), and IIRC a white walker attack, there should be plenty of action starting around next week. I assume for effect, each of these deaths might be an ending scene of an episode. Ah, and of course, there's some battles in the North and the dragon eggs have to hatch.

Based on my (incomplete) memory of the book, it might play out as:
Ep. 5: Robert meets the hog
Ep. 6: Viserys gets a crown
Ep. 7: Attack at the Wall???
Ep. 8: Ned gets axed
Ep. 9: Rebellion in the North, Robb becomes king
Ep. 10: Drogo dies and dragons hatch.

I hope I'm not missing too much.

This post has been edited by Cobbles: 09 May 2011 - 10:14 PM

[Ulrik]

Well, this episode went fast and well.

Im sorry, that story of brothers Clegane didnt make it in book version. It added really much to Hound character.
Im still waiting for tourney final, Mountain beheading horse, popstar Loras saved by Hound etc.
Dialog between Jory and Jaime was suprisingly good. I like way Jaime is becoming more than he was in book. Really, in GoT book he only thows Bran, got two dialogues and get suckerpunched by Robb. This version "I like to chat about battles, love my sister etc" is good!
Sam looks fine. Really fine. To his story would add more tragic just two sentences about Tarly house and that valyrian steel sword he never inherited. But it was good. And Ghost, at last.
Tourney is so far a little weak. I expected parade of knights, Berric, Thoros... Well, introducing Mountain is fine, but...it had more of it.
Detective part of Ned is done greatly. In book it can consume so much space, here, it cant. Its strict, loyal to book and straight.
Daenerys...well, my hope that new screenplay will end this story arc with Viserys murdering her went to hell. I have to live with appearing dragons

So...is it one of greatest moments in film/ movie industry for last twenty years? Oh yeaaaah... Last time I loved waiting for new episodes was BSG. And I didnt know how it ends!

And I think my wife will be really surprised by Ned´s end...hope scene, where Joffrey shows his pure stupidity wont be ruined. It cant. It simply cant.

Oh, and of course...next episode will arrive Bronn, I guess...

[Sinisdar Toste]

Briar King, on 10 May 2011 - 03:40 AM, said:

Im really not happy with this choice of actor. Theon is supposed to be a pretty handsome guy getting alot of attention from the ladies and being cocky as hell. I dont see this actor as Theon Greyjoy at all...

I was also happy to see the 3 eyed crow. Very fucking creepy looking.

tell me about it, guy looks like a goof. probably the only casting choice that looks terrible but acts spot on. i mean, he sounds like theon and acts like him, but he looks funny. i always thought theon was taller and darker.

Edit: also, whomever it was that said Sam is ruined - ok, but consider this: SAM IS PERFECT! the shuffling gait, the whining and the jiggly chops. i love it.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 10 May 2011 - 04:37 AM

[MTS]

Ok, after watching Ep 4 I've revised my opinion of Littlefinger, he's doing an excellent job. IIRC though, didn't the Hound tell that story to Sansa in the book and not Littlefinger? I would've liked to see that, at the moment he's just a silent figure in the background, with little real depth apart from that brief 'butcher's boy' scene.

I expected a little more from the tournament as well, although the death of Ser Whatshisname was particularly gruesome and I expect we'll see more next episode. It also seems as though they're going to scrap the Rickon story entirely, although not having read the books I don't remember how fleshed out his story should be by now.