[FrederickvanIvanhoe]

So I've just watched episode 3 and not that I think that anyone will be really interested in this I'm gonna write it down anyway.

So far this is one of the top 5 series I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I'm really enjoying it and seeing a few of my favorite books and characters come alive on the screen is like a dream come true.

However I think a pretty big part of my enthusiasm comes from this being the first decent fantasy thing on television (not counting movies and Sci-fi) and based on one of my favorite book series on top of that. If I take a little bit of distance from the fantasy/GRRM fan inside of me I feel the series in reality is not as good as for example Rome (season 1 at least) and especially Deadwood. The story still isn't flowing really smooth and it still feels to much as just a bunch of things happening on the screen with barely any connection to each other. Besides that, I'm not convinced about the changes made to the books, I feel that some of them don't add so much to the series. And although some of them really hit the right spot, so would some text lines or scenes the writers decided to leave out.

All in all I'm not really surprised since I found the two previous products from David Benioff I've seen really flawed (troy) and downright unwatchable (Wolverine). I think he and mr. Weiss did a fantastic job of getting this project to lift off and with the best tv producing company on top of that. I just don't feel that the directors/writers did a fantastic job just merely did a good job on the a extremely good story and bunch of characters.

As a closing comment I would like to empathize that I still think this is one of the best series ever, the costumes are better then I imagined and overall all the visuals are stunning. The acting is fantastic and most of the casting choices are perfect. And to cut the writers some slack, I can imagine it's difficult to weigh off building up tension for the climaxes later on in the series against the need for proper introductions necessary in the first episodes. So with the many minor and major climaxes and plot twists coming up I really can't wait for the next episode, tourney of the hand: I can't until next week!

[Traveller]

Tapper, on 02 May 2011 - 06:49 PM, said:

I do however start to object to the look of the Starks. Sansa aside, they look like farmers in dirty leather and homespun compared to just about everyone in Robert's court. Sensible dress is all ok, but even the armsmen in those open faced baskinets look like they are three centuries behind the city guard.

That's kind of the intention isn't it? The North is isolated; the King's visit was the first in however many years, and the Starks never leave Winterfell. The Lannisters see them as a bit barbaric and behind the times - I think it's good that they've nailed the appearances so well that they do stand out as being different.

For me, Arya stole the show, as she does in the books. I really hope ol' George has worked out some kind of resolution for her, and doesn't off her because he can't think of how to do it.

I liked this episode for all the lack of stabby action - it was needed to give a bit of depth and background to the characters, before things really kick off later on.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 03 May 2011 - 08:29 PM

[Hocknose]

Still no post puppy Ghost yet which is a bit dissapointing

[QuickTidal]

FrederickvanIvanhoe, on 03 May 2011 - 07:23 PM, said:

So I've just watched episode 3 and not that I think that anyone will be really interested in this I'm gonna write it down anyway.

So far this is one of the top 5 series I've ever had the pleasure of watching. I'm really enjoying it and seeing a few of my favorite books and characters come alive on the screen is like a dream come true.

However I think a pretty big part of my enthusiasm comes from this being the first decent fantasy thing on television (not counting movies and Sci-fi) and based on one of my favorite book series on top of that. If I take a little bit of distance from the fantasy/GRRM fan inside of me I feel the series in reality is not as good as for example Rome (season 1 at least) and especially Deadwood. The story still isn't flowing really smooth and it still feels to much as just a bunch of things happening on the screen with barely any connection to each other. Besides that, I'm not convinced about the changes made to the books, I feel that some of them don't add so much to the series. And although some of them really hit the right spot, so would some text lines or scenes the writers decided to leave out.

All in all I'm not really surprised since I found the two previous products from David Benioff I've seen really flawed (troy) and downright unwatchable (Wolverine). I think he and mr. Weiss did a fantastic job of getting this project to lift off and with the best tv producing company on top of that. I just don't feel that the directors/writers did a fantastic job just merely did a good job on the a extremely good story and bunch of characters.

As a closing comment I would like to empathize that I still think this is one of the best series ever, the costumes are better then I imagined and overall all the visuals are stunning. The acting is fantastic and most of the casting choices are perfect. And to cut the writers some slack, I can imagine it's difficult to weigh off building up tension for the climaxes later on in the series against the need for proper introductions necessary in the first episodes. So with the many minor and major climaxes and plot twists coming up I really can't wait for the next episode, tourney of the hand: I can't until next week!

This is a well thought out statement, and echoes what people say about a number of TV shows like this with a long running arc. But the issue I have with your statement is this:

It's written as one long story, not many...therefore it isn't going to all cohere into a perfect story 3 episodes in...You will have to look at the whole season for that. It's like complaining about LOST not explaining about some of the randomness that we were unsure of in Season 1 (Polar Bears and Smoke monster growling) at the 3 episode mark. No one said that because we all knew that certain things would get explained and fleshed out over time, and we'd just have to wait. I have trouble understanding the fact that you want to judge overall flow in a series that has many long running plot arcs. The "connections" you complain about not seeing...come after we have a number of more episodes under our belt as viewers. How on earth (at this point in the story) do you want them to tie together Winterfell, The Wall, The Kingsroad, Kings Landing, Pentos, Vraes Dothrak at this point? At this point they are disparate stories....they aren't connected, except by a few strands here and there VIA characters at this point. If you think they could tie all of that together in one hour's worth of TV...you're nuts dude. LOL.

Beyond all this. Benioff is NOT who you need to face any ire towards. TROY being the mess it was had nothing to do with the writing at all, and everything to do with Petersen's scattershot, emotionless directing. WOLVERINE was the result of Hollywood suit producers and company men getting their hands on the film and controlling director Gavin Hood...making Wolverine much worse than it was in the script stage. Skip Woods (who wrote the atrocious HITMAN) was hired when those suits were unimpressed with Benioff's darker WOLVERINE script and had Woods nearly completely rewrite it. So what you saw on screen actually is unrecognizable as Benioff's original script.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 03 May 2011 - 08:02 PM

[amphibian]

My favorite authorial-related tidbit of recent times was learning that G.R.R. Martin hated the ending of Lost as much as I did. Maybe even more. I rest firmly assured that his series will end with a satisfying bang and general contentment all around.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 03 May 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

...
Beyond all this. Benioff is NOT who you need to face any ire towards. ... nearly completely rewrite it. So what you saw on screen actually is unrecognizable as Benioff's original script.

Put another way, rare is the property, however brilliant, that can survive an onslaught of self-involved media production execs with car payments to make.

amphibian, on 03 May 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

My favorite authorial-related tidbit of recent times was learning that G.R.R. Martin hated the ending of Lost as much as I did. Maybe even more. I rest firmly assured that his series will end with a satisfying bang and general contentment all around.

I'm also curious to see whether, ultimately, the tv series and the books have the same ending (more or less).

[champ]

I cannot remember if I have already posted this but whilst it's on my mind again...

Every bloody time I see Jamie Lannister on scene I cannot help but think of Prince Charming off Shrek... If I could still upload photos here you would see what I mean, check out google images! Hah...

Oh aye... Great show so far!

[Abyss]

champ, on 03 May 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

I cannot remember if I have already posted this but whilst it's on my mind again...

Every bloody time I see Jamie Lannister on scene I cannot help but think of Prince Charming off Shrek... If I could still upload photos here you would see what I mean, check out google images! Hah...

Oh aye... Great show so far!

y'know... that's not so far off...

VIRGIN FUZZY NAVELS FOR EVERYBODY!!!!

[stone monkey]

My favourite little detail of this is how the Northmen all have Northern English accents - I mean Ned Stark is from Sheffield ffs! It's a nice little attention to the worldbuilding and also manages to demonstrate to non-UKers that everyone here doesn't sound like Cockneys, Scots or the Queen... Ironically enough, Lena Headey actually lived a large chunk of her life in Huddersfield and actually sounds more like Sean Bean in real life than you might think...

[D'rek]

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? Other than Daenarys, that is.

[Ceda Cicero]

D, on 03 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? Other than Daenarys, that is.

Wait, she wears clothes? Musta blinked.

[Tyr]

stone monkey, on 03 May 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

My favourite little detail of this is how the Northmen all have Northern English accents - I mean Ned Stark is from Sheffield ffs! It's a nice little attention to the worldbuilding and also manages to demonstrate to non-UKers that everyone here doesn't sound like Cockneys, Scots or the Queen... Ironically enough, Lena Headey actually lived a large chunk of her life in Huddersfield and actually sounds more like Sean Bean in real life than you might think...

You mean like Lancashire and Yorkshire?

Ceda Cicero, on 03 May 2011 - 10:48 PM, said:

D, on 03 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? Other than Daenarys, that is.

Wait, she wears clothes? Musta blinked.

SNAP!

BRONN AND MOUNTAIN IN THE NEXT EPISODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cyphon]

Anyone seen a trailer for the next episode yet?

[Tapper]

D, on 03 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? Other than Daenarys, that is.

I think Robert wore a different coat than he did in prev episodes... Baratheon green with fancy scrollwork.
Cersei might have changed clothes. The Starks haven't, it is my pet theory that when Ned was offered to change clothes for the meeting of the council he refused not because he did not want to refresh, but because he had no clothes to change into.

Quote

That's kind of the intention isn't it? The North is isolated; the King's visit was the first in however many years, and the Starks never leave Winterfell. The Lannisters see them as a bit barbaric and behind the times - I think it's good that they've nailed the appearances so well that they do stand out as being different.

They're still first tier nobility, so they should have access to slightly better stuff than the average farmer. They don't have to look like Robert or the Lannisters, but they should be able to match the regular King's Landing noble.
You see how Jon (and Benjen) both are infinately better dressed than the other guys of the Watch (fur, their vlothes are really black instead of greyish, the material is less coarse), so they stick out from peasants and the poor - except Ned is dressed less fanciful than either of them.

Jerah Mormont is better dressed than Ned, and he was Ned's underling (so poorer than the Starks) and is now banished with even less access to Westerosi fashion than them.

[QuickTidal]

Tapper, on 04 May 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

D, on 03 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? Other than Daenarys, that is.

I think Robert wore a different coat than he did in prev episodes... Baratheon green with fancy scrollwork.
Cersei might have changed clothes. The Starks haven't, it is my pet theory that when Ned was offered to change clothes for the meeting of the council he refused not because he did not want to refresh, but because he had no clothes to change into.

Quote

That's kind of the intention isn't it? The North is isolated; the King's visit was the first in however many years, and the Starks never leave Winterfell. The Lannisters see them as a bit barbaric and behind the times - I think it's good that they've nailed the appearances so well that they do stand out as being different.

They're still first tier nobility, so they should have access to slightly better stuff than the average farmer. They don't have to look like Robert or the Lannisters, but they should be able to match the regular King's Landing noble.
You see how Jon (and Benjen) both are infinately better dressed than the other guys of the Watch (fur, their vlothes are really black instead of greyish, the material is less coarse), so they stick out from peasants and the poor - except Ned is dressed less fanciful than either of them.

Jerah Mormont is better dressed than Ned, and he was Ned's underling (so poorer than the Starks) and is now banished with even less access to Westerosi fashion than them.

This is nitpicking of the highest order of nitpicking Tapper. LOL

[MTS]

Well, it kinda makes sense, if you look at it culturally. The North is huge, it's wild and I get the impression it's not nearly as rich as the other areas of the Seven Kingdoms, like the West and the Riverlands. 'There's not many feather beds between here and King's Landing' is a fair indicator of the state of the North. There is little ostentation, even among the nobility, and the land is much more rugged than anywhere else, so they're probably dressing for utility rather than fashion. They're closer to the Ironborn (is that the correct term?) in that regard, so I think their appearance is justifiable.

[QuickTidal]

MTS, on 04 May 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Well, it kinda makes sense, if you look at it culturally. The North is huge, it's wild and I get the impression it's not nearly as rich as the other areas of the Seven Kingdoms, like the West and the Riverlands. 'There's not many feather beds between here and King's Landing' is a fair indicator of the state of the North. There is little ostentation, even among the nobility, and the land is much more rugged than anywhere else, so they're probably dressing for utility rather than fashion. They're closer to the Ironborn (is that the correct term?) in that regard, so I think their appearance is justifiable.

Indeed. Well put MTS.

In fact you can see the difference between the Starks as nobles and the peasants in their clothing...it's just less of a difference is all. That said, Ned has a finely assemlbed jerkin of what looks to be supple leather in The Kingsroad episode. In fact all the Starks have finely assembled gear....it's just very PLAIN is all, as they have other crap to worry about in the North than how ostentatious their clothes are. Beyond that, everything Catelyn and Sansa have worn have been lovely fine dresses as well...simply plainer than the ones they wear in Kings Landing.

[Abyss]

Tapper, on 04 May 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

D, on 03 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

How come no one ever changes clothes in this world? ...

I think Robert wore a different coat than he did in prev episodes......
Cersei might have changed clothes. ...

Quote

That's kind of the intention isn't it? The North is isolated; the King's visit was the ...

Jerah Mormont is better dressed than Ned, and he was Ned's underling (so poorer than the Starks) and is now banished with even less access to Westerosi fashion than them.

They have been changing, but it's subtle, except where it's Cersei.

Plus some episodes are months apart. It just happens that when we rejoin the story, some people have put back on the same outfit they were wearing the last time we saw them.
No really.


Mormont's down south in serious heat. His 'lighter' clothes (which like Illyrio and Viserys, still look heavier than the Dothraki outfits)
would almost automatically look 'better' than what one wears in the frosty North. Also, when Mormont was exiled, he brought his wardrobe with him.

[pat5150]

Joe Abercrombie interviews GRRM here!

Patrick

[Binder of Demons]

pat5150, on 09 May 2011 - 12:15 AM, said:

Joe Abercrombie interviews GRRM here!

Patrick

Cheers for the link Pat.

I love the presenter of that book show, Mariella Frostrup. Sexy voice. Seeing her present the piece, reminded me that the first time I ever saw her on TV was back in the early 90's when she did a late night movie review show on ITV, which was followed by reruns of a little known tv show called BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (starring Linda Hamilton and Ron Perlman no less!). Of course Beauty and the Beast also had a relatively unknown screenwriter working for them then, called......? You may have guessed it. Why, George R.R. Martin of course.
And that's how my movie/tv nerdy brain works.