[Gatekeeper]

I caught a wiff of it the first time through tCG, the second time it was really setting in, but the re-re-read spot read sold it to me : Quick Ben shapeshifts right in front of our eyes in tCG. I've been waiting (along with a lot of you I'm sure) for Quick Ben's Soletaken form to be revealed. Along this line I once read in an interview Steve said in response to the question "What shapeshifter form is Quick Ben really?" he retorted "When have we NEVER seen Quick Ben shape shift?" at the time I took this as Quick was a wiley bastard, as we all know. But when we see Quick with Paran for the first time in tCG, we get alot of sentences like:

"Not really. Just out of practice. Lost touch with being subtle, I think." QB
Paran immediately thinks it's an odd thing to say.

There is more back and forth between Ganoes and Quick, a subtle word-fight, and then,

Quick Ben....RUBBED AT HIS EYES, and said "Ganoes Paran, what are we? Here, what are we?"
Ganoes replies that they are soldiers of the Emperor, and always were.

and THEN, Ganoes pins Quick with a question,

"How much do you already know?" Ganoes
Quick Ben RUBBED VIGOROUSLY AT HIS FACE, AS IF TRYING TO REARRANGE HIS OWN FEATURES.
Ganoes then thinks "AND MAYBE, BECOME SOMEONE ELSE."

Then Quick says that hes not all that well informed, because Shadowthrone is pissed about "a past slight" but Quick can't remember what slight it was. He seems to be telling the truth, and if it was the mortal Quick Ben, he would of course remember the various reasons ST would be pissed.

Now SE gives us I think the final piece, after some conversation about just who Quick is, Ganoes caps it by saying
"Yet, out of necessity, YOU ALL WORK TOGETHER, for a common purpose."

That really sealed it for me. Through the rest of the chapter, Quick says other odd things like "I guess I already knew that." As well as more face rubbing and outright emotional changes. I think it was SE tipping his hat to us about Quick, and if it was, it was a master stroke.



What I'm getting at: Quick Ben "Shape shifts" through his different "souls" in this chapter. Every time he rubs his face, or eyes, or out right doesn't know things he should know, or Ganoes Paran the MotDoD, says something like "He's trying to rearrange his face, to become another person perhaps?" Quick Ben is "shifting" from one of his souls to the next. I think it applies nicely to SE saying that Quick "Shapeshifts" all the time. I apparently did the same thing when I thought this post would make sense to everyone.


That title was a spoiler~Bubba

This post has been edited by Gatekeeper: 03 April 2011 - 07:37 PM

[worry]

You forgot to actually say what you're getting at.

[Trull's son]

His point did get across. Quick isn't shape shifting as D'ivers or Soletaken. His "shapeshifting" may be shifting between souls, indicated by his face rubbing. Hmm, I wonder if we can't dig up some quotes from earlier in the series o defend this claim?

[Gatekeeper]

I'm sure there are other instances, but I believe SE said it point blank in tCG.


Not that I wouldn't like some quote fu, can always use some quote fu.

This post has been edited by Gatekeeper: 01 April 2011 - 10:29 PM

[Jurble]

Dunno, doesn't explain why Shadowthrone didn't recognize him in GotM, or why Tayschrenn didn't recognize him as Rool the Rude or whatever his name was when he was a Malazan High mage. I still think he has some ability to alter his appearance.

And not knowing why shadowthrone is pissed is understandable - Quick Ben has seriously done so many things to slight Shadowthrone, that he can't possibly know which one ST's grumpy about now.

We've been told before that Quick Ben's souls aren't subservient to his Ben Adaephon Delat-soul, they just go along with him, because he's such a convincing dude (and saving the world).

This post has been edited by Jurble: 02 April 2011 - 04:12 AM

[iRFNA]

Perhaps he can physically shapeshift as well, or maybe he's just good enough at meanas/mockra to make himself look like different people. He obviously has some sort of capability to disguise himself, even to tricksters like shadowthrone.

I wish I had my tCG book right now, but I loaned it out... But this makes me wonder about quick ben's intro in this book, his little internal monologue about "father" and "mother", the sceptre thingy, then talking about what one person thought was anomander/nimander wanting said sceptre. Perhaps QB isn't talking about his actual father and mother there either, but one of his soul's parents. It probably doesn't, but I wonder if it fits into my "andarist gave up the vast majority of his soul/power out of grief.. to someone else" theory and it eventually getting passed down to QB. Maybe that old soul is starting to finally overpower QB's default soul and take control?

This post has been edited by iRFNA: 02 April 2011 - 04:59 PM

[Leo]

It... kinda' makes sense. There's a quote by Kalam somewhere about Ben always having had the scent of soletaken about him. If you read that as always actually smelling, uh... spicy, it goes together with the frequent soul-shifting. Still, the scent appears when actual shifting is done, is it not? I'd think others would have made note of it's stronger presence at times when he's doing it, as in GotM, when he steps out of the warren.

[Gatekeeper]

**punches self in face** I forgot QB *died* in DoD, and likely spoilered the shit out of it with my topic thread title. Many, many, apologies.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I wasn't initially really sold on this idea - not sure why, it just didn't fit with how I imagined Quick Ben's soul-sharing deal, and I always imagined him as sort of fidgety (with him often doing things like drumming his fingers on tables). It's something I do myself, so I figured that might be all there is to it.
However, someone quoted a paragraph from DoD in a thread in the SW forum where he does exactly the same thing - the phrase "rubbed vigorously at his face" is repeated verbatim - when explaining that most of the Crippled God landed in Korel. Something only one or two of his souls knew? One of the more ancient ones, perhaps? This is definitely getting more convincing.

I'm on a full series re-read at the moment; finishing will be a long way off, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for any more evidence of Quick being, ah, uncomfortable in his own skin.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Wasn't there another reference to Quick Ben as a "snake" in The Crippled God? Not sure where it occurred, but it stuck in my mind given that it's been suggested in the past.

[Gatekeeper]

Anyone have the quote fu for that scene in DoD that PooPoo (snicker) is talking about?

[Steve Halter]

DoD, Chapter 5:

Quote

Quick Ben rubbed vigorously at his face, and then said, ‘The Crippled God came down in pieces. Everyone knows that. Most of him, it’s said, fell on Korel, which is what gave that continent its other name ...

He is answering a question from Tavore. So, he could be switching souls to the one with the answer. It's ambiguous here.

[Steve Halter]

From Pat's interview with Steve I see:

Quote

Q: - Is there enough information dropped along in the series for the fans to piece together, with some degree of accuracy, who Quick Ben really is?

A: No.

So, we shouldn't feel too bad at the mystery that is QB.

[Gatekeeper]

I think that answer refers to who the "Adaephon" in Quick Ben is. My theory points out a "piece" of who QB is, as that question refers to QB as a whole.

[Jurble]

Steve Halter, on 06 April 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

From Pat's interview with Steve I see:

Quote

Q: - Is there enough information dropped along in the series for the fans to piece together, with some degree of accuracy, who Quick Ben really is?

A: No.

So, we shouldn't feel too bad at the mystery that is QB.

rofl,

I guess all speculation must end now until the other books are done.

[Mott]

Quick Ben is...Nefarias Bredd. Holy shit it would be cool if he was. Oh well. I kind of see some sense in that, different souls must have different levels of knowledge and we still don't know how they interact exactly, maybe he is constantly shifting persona. I like the idea of them being one big jumble and just arguing with themselves within him as well though.

This post has been edited by Mott: 07 April 2011 - 07:40 PM

[Jurble]

I always imagined it as Ben Delat being the main dude on the inside, and Quick Ben is basically doing on the inside of his head what he's doing in the outside world, just scheming, playing this soul off the other, making deals here and there, just constantly, non-stop. Like, if any other soul was the main-soul, he would have descended into madness, but Delat is such a sly fellow he's managed to keep them all under control.

[Steve Halter]

Gatekeeper, on 06 April 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I think that answer refers to who the "Adaephon" in Quick Ben is. My theory points out a "piece" of who QB is, as that question refers to QB as a whole.

Right, this just seemed like a good thread to put the SE info into. And, just because SE says there isn't enough info for the whole solution doesn't mean we can't keep looking.

[Gatekeeper]

It's hard to read sarcasm through the interwebz, please do speak up.

[polishgenius]

I doubt that Quick 'soulshifts' as such, I'm pretty sure Ben Delat is always in control, like Jurble says. But rubbing his face could easily indicate him consulting with his other selves.

I think there's been too many hints that he's Soletaken for references to shapeshifting to be anything other than that. Shadowthrone not recognising him is odd, but as an incredibly useful ability he never uses again, that could just be a GOTMism.