[jaysen]

I'll just throw this question in here:
Is Quick the offspring of Mother Dark and Draconus?

[Gatekeeper]

jaysen, on 13 April 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

I'll just throw this question in here:
Is Quick the offspring of Mother Dark and Draconus?

We don't know.

[Serebrus]

I may be wrong, but didn't it state early in the series that Quick had 7 souls in him... Then later on (possibly DoD or tCG) he states he has 12 souls in him?

[Ceda Cicero]

Serebrus, on 15 April 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

I may be wrong, but didn't it state early in the series that Quick had 7 souls in him... Then later on (possibly DoD or tCG) he states he has 12 souls in him?

Always 12 souls, IIRC. Just seven warrens he could call on at a time.

[Monoch Ochem]

It has been argued that his conversation with MD was due to one of his souls being Tiste Andii....or at least mixed TA.

Irrespective, I believe that SE had said in some Q&A that QB was soletaken and that it would have been revealed.

I have to say that generally, this last book didn't grab me as much and was a bit of a let-down.

After my long absence, I might as well just vent: I find inconsistences in so many things. Like how Hood munches on FA or uses them for the occasional Spring-clean of the Spire, but Olar Ethil shows up, coughs and Hood's nearly his own candidate, if you see what I mean. Only, of course, for the old dragon tp be topped by an arrow in the head.

Then my burning issue: Tellann. With Akhrast Korvalian sundered and failing

[Monoch Ochem]

....continuing: yes, Tellann was able to manifest. Yet, the Imass chose to continue fighting with stone weapons???? Where the HELL were the Bonecasters??!!!!!!! The Monok within me SCREAMS his frustration and fury!! Tellann should have shown Sinn what TRUE fire was.

I also think that a lot of the book space used to march us through the ponderings of the Bonehunters through the desert could have been put to explaining more.

Generally, I feel that this was built up so wonderfully and so grandly that our beloved authors over-extended themselves a bit, being unable to deliver a suitably awesome conclusion.

Fair do's. It's still the best series ever written, in my view. But I was expecting more/better. Victim of his own success, S.E.

[KallorsUnusedMoisturiser]

I like the theory of QB shifting between souls, but that raises something that I've had an issue with since MoI.

As the soon-to-be-called Bridgeburners are chasing the mage cadre across the Raraku desert, they give their souls up to a middling cadre mage, QB. WHY? Some of those mages were powerful. One was a Tiste Andii (possibly a son of MD), one drove back Dassem, another was supposedly soletaken. I mean come on, there were others in that group that should have been running along a long time after QB dropped to the sand. On top of that, Kalam knew all about this flight across the desert, so he is in on the plan too.

Another thing occured to me while typing. If it wasn't some big agreed upon plan by the whole cadre, wouldn't they have just slipped quietly into some warren to escape?

Any thoughts?

This post has been edited by KallorsUnusedMoisturiser: 19 April 2011 - 12:05 PM

[Monoch Ochem]

Yeah, the whole reason for the soul-shifting ritual while on the run, etc., was never quite clear. It makes sense that at least one soul was TA (probably the 'Adaephon Delat' reference....sounds very TA in nomenclature). Also, when they made Hairlock (?) in GotM, Tattersail noticed that the sorcery was Kurald Galain. So all that power, yet on the run....unless the Claw were also pursuing? Can't recall....

[Bauchelain the Evil]

KallorsUnusedMoisturiser, on 19 April 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

I like the theory of QB shifting between souls, but that raises something that I've had an issue with since MoI.

As the soon-to-be-called Bridgeburners are chasing the mage cadre across the Raraku desert, they give their souls up to a middling cadre mage, QB. WHY? Some of those mages were powerful. One was a Tiste Andii (possibly a son of MD), one drove back Dassem, another was supposedly soletaken. I mean come on, there were others in that group that should have been running along a long time after QB dropped to the sand. On top of that, Kalam knew all about this flight across the desert, so he is in on the plan too.

Because he was the youngest and most physically fit. Someone else's body probably wouldn't have been able to travel through all of Raraku.

[Punchy Pete]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 20 April 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

KallorsUnusedMoisturiser, on 19 April 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

I like the theory of QB shifting between souls, but that raises something that I've had an issue with since MoI.

As the soon-to-be-called Bridgeburners are chasing the mage cadre across the Raraku desert, they give their souls up to a middling cadre mage, QB. WHY? Some of those mages were powerful. One was a Tiste Andii (possibly a son of MD), one drove back Dassem, another was supposedly soletaken. I mean come on, there were others in that group that should have been running along a long time after QB dropped to the sand. On top of that, Kalam knew all about this flight across the desert, so he is in on the plan too.

Because he was the youngest and most physically fit. Someone else's body probably wouldn't have been able to travel through all of Raraku.

Mages were powerful individually, but exponentially more powerful in one being. I think QB was the youngest, so I agree with the reasoning above, but I also think he was the smartest, so best able to handle the 12 souls and make full use of them and their 7 warrens. Remember, they were being hunted by the Emperor, who didn't let things go. There was no where for them to turn, or hide, that he would not have found them, so this was their best recourse... create a being powerful enough to stand up to the Emperor, and powerful enough a tool that the Emperor (later ST) swallows that anger and uses the tool in front of him. QB is probably the only one that figured out this whole thing was ST's plan to start... so how about ST setting up the conditions to create the Bridgeburners and QB, knowing he'd need those tools later?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Also it's not as if they were really that powerful. WJ says right at the start that they were considerably outmatched by all of the Empire's High Mages( Tayschrenn, Nightchill, Akarony,Bellurdan,Tesormalandis and Stumpy).

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I've been re-reading GotM, and the demon Quick Ben summons to hold off the Tiste Andii mentions that Ben Adaephon Delat was one of those on the "list of High Mages" killed in the Seven Cities campaign. Obviously his death was faked, but there's no other indication to my knowledge that the original Ben was of High Mage power - safe to write off as a GotMism?

[Sciz]

Gatekeeper, on 06 April 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I think that answer refers to who the "Adaephon" in Quick Ben is. My theory points out a "piece" of who QB is, as that question refers to QB as a whole.

About that. In TCG Ruthan Gudd does his thing when he hears Quick Ben's full name and how he now knows exactly who it is or whatever. That must mean that QB was some sort of well-known entity back in the day. If so, wouldn't Anomander Rake also recognize the name Ben Adaephon Delat? But he doesn't in Memories of Ice when Whiskeyjack tells Rake Quick Ben's full name. Maybe QB was just well known enough for Ruthan Gudd to know who he is, but not enough known for Rake to give a fuck.

[Ceda Cicero]

Sciz, on 20 April 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

Gatekeeper, on 06 April 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I think that answer refers to who the "Adaephon" in Quick Ben is. My theory points out a "piece" of who QB is, as that question refers to QB as a whole.

About that. In TCG Ruthan Gudd does his thing when he hears Quick Ben's full name and how he now knows exactly who it is or whatever. That must mean that QB was some sort of well-known entity back in the day. If so, wouldn't Anomander Rake also recognize the name Ben Adaephon Delat? But he doesn't in Memories of Ice when Whiskeyjack tells Rake Quick Ben's full name. Maybe QB was just well known enough for Ruthan Gudd to know who he is, but not enough known for Rake to give a fuck.

There's definitely a reference from Quick in DoD about how Rake would have absolutely recognized him for who/what he was, and possibly did.

[Sciz]

Alright. But Rake never mentions recognizing him, anyways.

[Punchy Pete]

Neocount Cicero, on 20 April 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

Sciz, on 20 April 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

Gatekeeper, on 06 April 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I think that answer refers to who the "Adaephon" in Quick Ben is. My theory points out a "piece" of who QB is, as that question refers to QB as a whole.

About that. In TCG Ruthan Gudd does his thing when he hears Quick Ben's full name and how he now knows exactly who it is or whatever. That must mean that QB was some sort of well-known entity back in the day. If so, wouldn't Anomander Rake also recognize the name Ben Adaephon Delat? But he doesn't in Memories of Ice when Whiskeyjack tells Rake Quick Ben's full name. Maybe QB was just well known enough for Ruthan Gudd to know who he is, but not enough known for Rake to give a fuck.

There's definitely a reference from Quick in DoD about how Rake would have absolutely recognized him for who/what he was, and possibly did.

Rake would recognize the power in him, and that he has 12 souls, but not necessarily know him by name. But to the Malazans, those in the know, anyway, his real name was on that list of dead (and previously targeted) High Mages.

[CussersForChristmas]

I don't understand how Quick Ben can be some kind of ancient who is known by the name Adeaphon Delat when that is the name his sister uses for him during the childhood flashback scene before he tries to save her from Poliel.

[Gatekeeper]

@ Cussers - do you have a quote that his sister calls him by his full name? We've discussed that incident before, and I think we all thought she called him "Ben" , "Ben Delat" and "sneaky fucker"

[JohnO]

I think quick Ben is shadowthrone.We know both are sneaky mages linked to shadow and mis direction. ST has created other personas, why not this one?I think at the end of stoneweilder St is near a chaos whorl. Smilar to where QB enters TCG?Most obvious reasons against: The two meet- but that's a convincing distractor & we've seen it before I. Other placesQB has a sister, or is that just what he wants you to think? Was that really dancer in a dress?Miscellaneous logic & stuff

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

The idea of a cross-dressing Cotillion makes this theory funny enough to gain my approval.