[Terez]

Not yet. He's nominally completed the book, but he is taking the rest of the week off and then he's going to do his traditional 10% trimming before sending it to Team Jordan.

[Cobbles]

Terez, on 21 December 2011 - 08:28 PM, said:

Not yet. He's nominally completed the book, but he is taking the rest of the week off and then he's going to do his traditional 10% trimming before sending it to Team Jordan.

Sounds good enough for me.

[Shiara]

He said on his Facebook feed that the book will likely be published in roughly six months' time, allowing for editing, proofing, trimming, etc.

[Terez]

Shiara, on 22 December 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

He said on his Facebook feed that the book will likely be published in roughly six months' time, allowing for editing, proofing, trimming, etc.

Correction: he said they will take six months for editing, and that it will probably be published in November.

[Shiara]

Terez, on 22 December 2011 - 08:37 AM, said:

Shiara, on 22 December 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

He said on his Facebook feed that the book will likely be published in roughly six months' time, allowing for editing, proofing, trimming, etc.

Correction: he said they will take six months for editing, and that it will probably be published in November.

My bad!

[Abyss]

Makes sense to target pre-holiday season 2012. the rabid fans will grab it up in Nov and the less fanatic for the holidays/gifts.

No doubt the publishers will hammer the marketing through the roof.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 22 December 2011 - 03:33 PM, said:

Makes sense to target pre-holiday season 2012. the rabid fans will grab it up in Nov and the less fanatic for the holidays/gifts.

No doubt the publishers will hammer the marketing through the roof.

Indeed. I forsee Harry Potter/Hunger Games-esque Midnight release parties.

Or at least I can dream about getting it at midnight, taking the day off work and devouring it.

[Terez]

By the way, apparently I remembered wrong and this revision is not the 10% one but just his first revision before sending to Team Jordan. His last revision is the 10% one.

[Terez]

We were talking at Theoryland about the weird partner-trading thing going on with Moiraine, Siuan, Gareth Bryne, Morgase, and Thom. I referred to it as a weird 'love-triangle-square thing' and someone else pointed out that it was actually a pentagram. And thus the visualizing began.




And thus RJ subverted the trope of the love triangle. Good stuff. It gets even more interesting with certain other connections. Morgase had several lovers, but she was only married to one of them—Moiraine's half-brother Taringail Damodred, the father of Elayne and Gawyn. (Galad's mother was also Rand's mother, Tigraine, who was married to Taringail before she dissapeared. Tigraine's brother was Luc, who is half of Slayer, the other half being Lan's cousin Isam.) Taringail married Morgase when she was 16, and Thom was the family bard. When Thom realized what was going on...well, I should probably just quote Moiraine:

Quote

TITLE - The Shadow Rising
CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

Her smile was just short of laughter, but she spoke as if reading from a page. "Thomdril Merrilin. Called the Gray Fox, once, by some who knew him, or knew of him. Court-bard at the Royal Palace of Andor in Caemlyn. Morgase's lover for a time, after Taringail died. Fortunate for Morgase, Taringail's death. I do not suppose she ever learned he meant her to die and himself to be Andor's first king. But we were speaking of Thom Merrilin, a man who, it was said, could play the Game of Houses in his sleep. It is a shame that such a man calls himself a simple gleeman. But such arrogance to keep the same name."

Thom masked his shock with an effort. How much did she know? Too much if she knew not another word. But she was not the only one with knowledge. "Speaking of names," he said levelly, "it is remarkable how much can be puzzled out from a name. Moiraine Damodred. The Lady Moiraine of House Damodred, in Cairhien. Taringail's youngest half-sister. King Laman's niece. And Aes Sedai, let us not forget. An Aes Sedai aiding the Dragon Reborn since before she could have known that he was more than just another poor fool who could channel. An Aes Sedai with connections high in the White Tower, I would say, else she'd not risk what she has. Someone in the Hall of the Tower? More than one, I'd say; it would have to be. News of that would shake the world. But why should there be trouble? Perhaps it's best to leave an old gleeman tucked away in his hole in the servants' quarters. Just an old gleeman playing his harp and telling his tales. Tales that harm no one."

So, Thom killed Taringail for love, because it was his plan to kill Morgase. What choice did he have? He's not your average cold-blooded killer. He prevented Morgase's death and thus kept her on the throne of Andor. He left her because she stood with Elaida on the issue of Owyn, who was gentled illegally by the Red Ajah during the 'vileness' period. Elaida was apparently not personally involved; her involvement in the matter probably amounted to defending the Reds who had done it to Thom in order to preserve the White Tower's reputation. In fact, Thom might be the only reason anyone outside the Tower knows about it.

Moiraine took a particular interest in Thom's high-profile assassinations; just before that passage she was discussing his work on the most dangerous Tairen High Lords who opposed Rand. (He missed Weiramon.) Taringail was very high-profile and well-protected.

The interesting part to me is that Thom killed for love again in TGH when he assassinated Galldrian after his thugs killed Dena, the lady gleeman Thom was 'training' at the time. They killed her because Thom had been seen talking to Rand at Barthanes' manor. It appears as though only one person knows who killed Galldrian, but I doubt Galldrian was the only one who knew which of his thugs had gone missing, and who they had been assigned to that night. Thom went into the Sun Palace to kill one motherfucker and probably didn't concern himself with anyone who didn't get in his way.

And it just so happens that, in doing so, he vacated the throne of Cairhien for Moiraine. Elayne is not going to remain queen of both Andor and Cairhien; she has delayed the official coronation ceremony until after the Last Battle, and I don't think it's an accident that she waited this long to do anything about Cairhien at all. We also know from New Spring that Cairhien is a joint monarchy.

[Black Winged Lord]

So does this mean there was true love (or lust) between Moiraine and Siuan?

I know there was a few "pillow friend" comments, but can't recall whether these two were mentioned explicitly, or whether it went further?

[Terez]

Did you read New Spring? It was made pretty clear in that book.

[Cobbles]

Thanks for the write-up Terez. That's how I remember the story, too.

There was another chapter in some later book (too lazy to google it) where Rand asks specifically about his parents. He was afraid that he and Elaine might be related. It turns out, they're not.

This post has been edited by Cobbles: 19 January 2012 - 02:15 AM

[Terez]

Sort of.

This post has been edited by Terez: 19 January 2012 - 07:14 AM

[Black Winged Lord]

Terez, on 19 January 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Did you read New Spring? It was made pretty clear in that book.

Yeah, quite a while ago. Damn must have missed that bit.

That charts pretty cool. Think I had most of that more or less right in my head.
Where abouts did the reference for Elayne's kids by rand come from?

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm assuming Aviendha's future-view scene in ToM.

[Terez]

Black Winged Lord, on 19 January 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

Terez, on 19 January 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Did you read New Spring? It was made pretty clear in that book.

Yeah, quite a while ago. Damn must have missed that bit.

That charts pretty cool. Think I had most of that more or less right in my head.
Where abouts did the reference for Elayne's kids by rand come from?

H.D., on 19 January 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

I'm assuming Aviendha's future-view scene in ToM.

That's where the reference for Aviendha's kids comes from. The reference for Elayne's kids comes from Mat's flashback to Falme:

Quote

TITLE - A Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 21 - Swovan Night


There was no hope, with Seanchan to the west and Whitecloaks to the east, no hope and only one chance, so he raised the curled Horn and blew, not really knowing what to expect. The sound came golden as the Horn, so sweet he did not know whether to laugh or cry. It echoed, and the earth and heavens seemed to sing. While that one pure note hung in the air, a fog began to rise, appearing from nowhere, thin wisps, thickening, billowing higher, until all was obscured as if clouds covered the land. And down the clouds they rode, as though down a mountainside, the dead heroes of legend, bound to be called back by the Horn of Valere. Artur Hawkwing himself led, tall and hook-nosed, and behind came the rest, little more than a hundred. So few, but all those the Wheel would spin out again and again to guide the Pattern, to make legend and myth. Mikel of the Pure Heart, and Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask. He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side. Amaresu, with the Sword of the Sun glowing in her hands, and Paedrig, the golden-tongued peacemaker, and there, carrying the silver bow with which she never missed...

He pushed the door shut trying to lean against it. He felt dizzy, dazed. "You are she. Birgitte, for true. Burn my bones to ash, it's impossible. How? How?"

[Black Winged Lord]

That's awesome. Hadn't seen that connection made before.