[Osseric]

well, at this point, i'm starting to make some educated guesses as to who is on whose team.
I'd rather know how big Cracklins will get before I vote.

Keep in mind, btw, on the FM front. we all have an extra way of looking for the FM, which is the poison tokens.

BTW, how many would it take to kill the FM, oh the almighty ravens?

[Liosan]

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

*though the question of FM vs faction hunting is a good one. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, but if it was, I'd suggest that the FM has to find and take over a captain, therefore the longer they are alive, the more chance they have of finding one. On the other hand, the sooner one faction wins the sooner the FM's victory condition becomes unattainable, too. So while it's a good idea to keep an eye out for FM players, obviously (to me, anyway) the FM(s) have chosen not to jump into random alts, and is just searching for a captain to get into, which will make finding said FM(s) very difficult without blind lynching them. Which makes FM hunting kind of pointless, as we have nothing to go on but "this is how an FM would play". Which, as we all know, is a really crappy argument. *shrug*

Do we? How else do you find scum / fm / whatever?

[Osseric]

modbirds still not here? sigh

well, bedtime.

i'll check up before clas tomorrow... but it's gonna be another hella busy day...

[Kalse]

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

*though the question of FM vs faction hunting is a good one. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, but if it was, I'd suggest that the FM has to find and take over a captain, therefore the longer they are alive, the more chance they have of finding one. On the other hand, the sooner one faction wins the sooner the FM's victory condition becomes unattainable, too. So while it's a good idea to keep an eye out for FM players, obviously (to me, anyway) the FM(s) have chosen not to jump into random alts, and is just searching for a captain to get into, which will make finding said FM(s) very difficult without blind lynching them. Which makes FM hunting kind of pointless, as we have nothing to go on but "this is how an FM would play". Which, as we all know, is a really crappy argument. *shrug*

Do we? How else do you find scum / fm / whatever?

By looking for inconsistencies and lies in their posts. By looking at train information.

How many times has it been said, in a kind of wistful hindsight, that town lost because they thought scum would behave like X, when in fact they did Y. Hell, you at least have to consider that each player is going to play a role differently, if nothing else. And there's usually an 'else', like people setting out to play a role in a certain way. Let's not forget inability to post at certain times, responding to events on-thread and off differently.

Don't get me wrong, looking at the 'standard' scum plays, the patterns over games, is a great place to start. It just doesn't make such a great reason to go after someone. After all, in a 'normal' game, 'town' players are plenty scummy, and scum can be pretty clean. In factions, everybody has something to hide. Hell, until an FM jumps, they're just another player with something to hide. Unaligned, which is rare, but playing unaligned is similar to playing factioned-roled. There are tells, but there is hardly a standard identifier - if there was, there wouldn't be much point in playing. I can't recall us ever having a game where an FM was caught out before they jumped because of how they played. Can you?

[Hugin & Munin]

I am here - what is wanted - there havent been any votes yet and all pms have been responded to.

[Kalse]

Osseric, on 03 March 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

well, at this point, i'm starting to make some educated guesses as to who is on whose team.
I'd rather know how big Cracklins will get before I vote.

Keep in mind, btw, on the FM front. we all have an extra way of looking for the FM, which is the poison tokens.

BTW, how many would it take to kill the FM, oh the almighty ravens?

Think Ossy is talking about this question, H&M.

[Kalse]

Oh, and someone earlier was after the disposition of the gambled lives, which you mentioned you had to wait for Kraiklyn to respond to.

[Hugin & Munin]

two poison tokens at once will do it, but then very few of you seem intent on poisoning others.

[Liosan]

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

*though the question of FM vs faction hunting is a good one. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, but if it was, I'd suggest that the FM has to find and take over a captain, therefore the longer they are alive, the more chance they have of finding one. On the other hand, the sooner one faction wins the sooner the FM's victory condition becomes unattainable, too. So while it's a good idea to keep an eye out for FM players, obviously (to me, anyway) the FM(s) have chosen not to jump into random alts, and is just searching for a captain to get into, which will make finding said FM(s) very difficult without blind lynching them. Which makes FM hunting kind of pointless, as we have nothing to go on but "this is how an FM would play". Which, as we all know, is a really crappy argument. *shrug*

Do we? How else do you find scum / fm / whatever?

By looking for inconsistencies and lies in their posts. By looking at train information.

How many times has it been said, in a kind of wistful hindsight, that town lost because they thought scum would behave like X, when in fact they did Y. Hell, you at least have to consider that each player is going to play a role differently, if nothing else. And there's usually an 'else', like people setting out to play a role in a certain way. Let's not forget inability to post at certain times, responding to events on-thread and off differently.

Don't get me wrong, looking at the 'standard' scum plays, the patterns over games, is a great place to start. It just doesn't make such a great reason to go after someone. After all, in a 'normal' game, 'town' players are plenty scummy, and scum can be pretty clean. In factions, everybody has something to hide. Hell, until an FM jumps, they're just another player with something to hide. Unaligned, which is rare, but playing unaligned is similar to playing factioned-roled. There are tells, but there is hardly a standard identifier - if there was, there wouldn't be much point in playing. I can't recall us ever having a game where an FM was caught out before they jumped because of how they played. Can you?

Everyone have inconsistencies in their posting and lies are rarely found out in a game, unless the killers do a miserable job. Train information is good for sure, but until you find the first scum those are all just about pattern recognition. As is behavior.

In the end, the way to identify killers or whatever is to look for patterns of behavior. Trying to argue that such arguments are poor, as you did, is simply not correct.

[Liosan]

Hugin & Munin, on 03 March 2011 - 09:15 AM, said:

two poison tokens at once will do it, but then very few of you seem intent on poisoning others.

Had you been playing things would've been different I reckon.

[Kalse]

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

*though the question of FM vs faction hunting is a good one. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, but if it was, I'd suggest that the FM has to find and take over a captain, therefore the longer they are alive, the more chance they have of finding one. On the other hand, the sooner one faction wins the sooner the FM's victory condition becomes unattainable, too. So while it's a good idea to keep an eye out for FM players, obviously (to me, anyway) the FM(s) have chosen not to jump into random alts, and is just searching for a captain to get into, which will make finding said FM(s) very difficult without blind lynching them. Which makes FM hunting kind of pointless, as we have nothing to go on but "this is how an FM would play". Which, as we all know, is a really crappy argument. *shrug*

Do we? How else do you find scum / fm / whatever?

By looking for inconsistencies and lies in their posts. By looking at train information.

How many times has it been said, in a kind of wistful hindsight, that town lost because they thought scum would behave like X, when in fact they did Y. Hell, you at least have to consider that each player is going to play a role differently, if nothing else. And there's usually an 'else', like people setting out to play a role in a certain way. Let's not forget inability to post at certain times, responding to events on-thread and off differently.

Don't get me wrong, looking at the 'standard' scum plays, the patterns over games, is a great place to start. It just doesn't make such a great reason to go after someone. After all, in a 'normal' game, 'town' players are plenty scummy, and scum can be pretty clean. In factions, everybody has something to hide. Hell, until an FM jumps, they're just another player with something to hide. Unaligned, which is rare, but playing unaligned is similar to playing factioned-roled. There are tells, but there is hardly a standard identifier - if there was, there wouldn't be much point in playing. I can't recall us ever having a game where an FM was caught out before they jumped because of how they played. Can you?

Everyone have inconsistencies in their posting and lies are rarely found out in a game, unless the killers do a miserable job. Train information is good for sure, but until you find the first scum those are all just about pattern recognition. As is behavior.

In the end, the way to identify killers or whatever is to look for patterns of behavior. Trying to argue that such arguments are poor, as you did, is simply not correct.

Well, then you'll just have to be satisfied with my disagreement. Take Silencer's typical scum play and compare it to dkt's. Case closed, imo.

And really? Lies are rarely found out? Where have you been playing...plus, inconsistencies are everywhere, so please point them all out, and see who has the most. Then lynch that person.
Besides, I think talking about 'killers' is, though sticking with the theme of general vagueness to suit all situations, a bit pointless in a faction game where the, for want of a better term, RI's are the most 'killer'-like players. The FM *can* kill, from the OP, but so far they haven't, have they?

Now, if you're talking behaviour in a game. As in, you know, comparative to the current game, we're talking about the same thing. If you're talking behaviour comparative to an as-yet-unwritten handbook of How to Play Scum (FM subsection), then we still disagree.

[Sorrit]

Can't we just do enni meanie mini mo?

[Kalse]

Could work, heh.

Anyway, I'm off. Sleep beckons.

[Hugin & Munin]

It's day 3

14 Players still alive: barghast, fener, galayn lord, hood's path, kalse, korabas, liosan, merrid, omtose, osseric, rashan, ruse, silanah, sorrit

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: barghast, fener, galayn lord, hood's path, kalse, korabas, liosan, merrid, omtose, osseric, rashan, ruse, silanah, sorrit

[Hugin & Munin]

Too busty for scene, picture bright skies, white beaches and dolphins frollicking in the waves. Picture mohitos, and bikins and tans and all things people want to have on a day when all your worries are somewhere else. The get back to reality and realise this game will only end when most of you are dead, buck up your ideas and get to the killing soldiers!

All captains bet 25 credits

king spades
two diamonds
ace clubs
seven hearts
ace spades

[Barghast]

Hugin & Munin, on 03 March 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

Too busty for scene, picture bright skies, white beaches and dolphins frollicking in the waves. Picture mohitos, and bikins and tans and all things people want to have on a day when all your worries are somewhere else. The get back to reality and realise this game will only end when most of you are dead, buck up your ideas and get to the killing soldiers!

All captains bet 25 credits

king spades
two diamonds
ace clubs
seven hearts
ace spades

Well that's depressing...

[Barghast]

This whole "FM not jumping on purpose" business is a pretty dumb. Yes, there have been games in the past where the FM never jumped, but to my recollect those were not faction games like this. The FM isn't just changing alts, he's killing people, which is in his best interest. If he sits back and does nothing, then he runs the risk of a single faction dominating, at which point they can find him much more easily in a mass reveal. The less killing he does the more likely that will happen.

OTOH, he is probably going to pick his kills/shifts to keep the factions as balanced as possible, so I would not discount the idea that he will change preparation targets if his first is on a losing side.

Of course the simplest explanation is that he was targeting Amp or Tiam to prepare on night 1 and the lynch foiled him l:)

[Galayn Lord]

Yes, that scene is very depressing.

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

Liosan, on 03 March 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

Kalse, on 03 March 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

*though the question of FM vs faction hunting is a good one. I don't think it has to be an either/or thing, but if it was, I'd suggest that the FM has to find and take over a captain, therefore the longer they are alive, the more chance they have of finding one. On the other hand, the sooner one faction wins the sooner the FM's victory condition becomes unattainable, too. So while it's a good idea to keep an eye out for FM players, obviously (to me, anyway) the FM(s) have chosen not to jump into random alts, and is just searching for a captain to get into, which will make finding said FM(s) very difficult without blind lynching them. Which makes FM hunting kind of pointless, as we have nothing to go on but "this is how an FM would play". Which, as we all know, is a really crappy argument. *shrug*

Do we? How else do you find scum / fm / whatever?

By looking for inconsistencies and lies in their posts. By looking at train information.

How many times has it been said, in a kind of wistful hindsight, that town lost because they thought scum would behave like X, when in fact they did Y. Hell, you at least have to consider that each player is going to play a role differently, if nothing else. And there's usually an 'else', like people setting out to play a role in a certain way. Let's not forget inability to post at certain times, responding to events on-thread and off differently.

Don't get me wrong, looking at the 'standard' scum plays, the patterns over games, is a great place to start. It just doesn't make such a great reason to go after someone. After all, in a 'normal' game, 'town' players are plenty scummy, and scum can be pretty clean. In factions, everybody has something to hide. Hell, until an FM jumps, they're just another player with something to hide. Unaligned, which is rare, but playing unaligned is similar to playing factioned-roled. There are tells, but there is hardly a standard identifier - if there was, there wouldn't be much point in playing. I can't recall us ever having a game where an FM was caught out before they jumped because of how they played. Can you?

Everyone have inconsistencies in their posting and lies are rarely found out in a game, unless the killers do a miserable job. Train information is good for sure, but until you find the first scum those are all just about pattern recognition. As is behavior.

In the end, the way to identify killers or whatever is to look for patterns of behavior. Trying to argue that such arguments are poor, as you did, is simply not correct.

I agree that patterns in a players behaviour will allow us to spot the FM. I do not agree that train information will be of any use in this game when hunting the FM. Sure It will be very reliable in determining who is on which team (especially with Z being almost completely gone). Very soon a train may be used to clearly indicate the players on the remaining two teams (might be getting ahead of myself with this one). Furthermore, we could also assume that those late on the train may be trying to hide their allegiance. This won't really help us with finding the FM, or at least I seriously doubt it will.

[Galayn Lord]

Why am I considered to be team Z?! If only I were, I'd more than likely have a better role than I do now. Team Z has what, 3 players left?

[Merrid]

I'm around.

Galayn Lord, on 03 March 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

Why am I considered to be team Z?! If only I were, I'd more than likely have a better role than I do now. Team Z has what, 3 players left?

I think a large part of it was your Day 1 vote where it appeared to some people that you were steering the vote away from Tiam (who was Team Z).