[Grief]

Silencer, on 23 February 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:

Uhm, guys...you do realise there is a specific rule forbidding discussion of when someone was on (like Shin's mention of the Dude logging off or whatever above) or not on, right?



RE: scenes - I can't remember, but I think there was a distinction between minis (scenes have no info) and full games (scenes may contain clues). Until H&M steps in on the issue, we have to assume as standard mafia rules are quoted and said to apply, with no exception made for scenes, that scenes don't include info or hints, as that is specified in the rules.

-> Silencer, on a rules bent atm for some reason...

I read that as more to do with discussing what times players usually post, to stop people being lynched because of the kill going through at their timezone.

The point Shin is making isn't a timezone related thing, just that he doesn't like that the Dude appeared to have been on shortly before Roldoms death and didn't switch. Imo, that's different from what the rules say, but the only way of knowing is clarification by D'rek. Can we get clarification on this please?

[Silencer]

D, on 21 February 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

Rules

Your standard malazan mafia rules apply (see next post), except for the following additions/exceptions:

-Players may not speak of meta-logic involving posting times, online times, the geography of players, timezones or any similar topic. Other meta-reasoning is allowed.
-Players will be mod-killed after 30 hours without posting.
-This game is played without alts. Note that some players are forum administrators and super-moderators, and can see players even when set to invisible. All discussion of when players are active on the thread is strictly not allowed by any player. Players may login anonymously or not as is their wont.

I was thinking specifically of the bold, not the underlined, but the underlined does actually reinforce the WORD of the bold and vice versa. Maybe not the spirit, but unless we have proof contrary, I'm going by the word. Better safe than sorry, imo.

I'm thinking back to that game where someone got themselves modkilled on day one by not following a rule about quoting from their PM or something.

[Silencer]

Moreover, I guess, is that while we may get leniency mentioning things like what Shin did (and others have done), building a case around something like that is begging for trouble. Now, if we can't use something to build a case, then mentioning it is just a waste of time and risky to boot. *shrug*

[drinksinbars]

i think the second is designed to stop you and grief making a case because you could see someone lurking but not posting. the first is about using regular post times to say "xxxxx could be the killer cause they usually post when the kill takes place." saying someone was on and didnt switch to get the lynch is something else entirely imo.

[drinksinbars]

of course that is determined by them actually posting on thread during that time to provide you with the evidence that they were available to vote yet did not.

[Silencer]

drinksinbars, on 23 February 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

i think the second is designed to stop you and grief making a case because you could see someone lurking but not posting. the first is about using regular post times to say "xxxxx could be the killer cause they usually post when the kill takes place." saying someone was on and didnt switch to get the lynch is something else entirely imo.

But I get that, my point is that if it's not going to be able to be used to make a case, it's just fudging the line between what's allowed and what isn't. I just think we should be careful, that's all...

[Grief]

Silencer, on 23 February 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

D, on 21 February 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

Rules

Your standard malazan mafia rules apply (see next post), except for the following additions/exceptions:

-Players may not speak of meta-logic involving posting times, online times, the geography of players, timezones or any similar topic. Other meta-reasoning is allowed.
-Players will be mod-killed after 30 hours without posting.
-This game is played without alts. Note that some players are forum administrators and super-moderators, and can see players even when set to invisible. All discussion of when players are active on the thread is strictly not allowed by any player. Players may login anonymously or not as is their wont.

I was thinking specifically of the bold, not the underlined, but the underlined does actually reinforce the WORD of the bold and vice versa. Maybe not the spirit, but unless we have proof contrary, I'm going by the word. Better safe than sorry, imo.

I'm thinking back to that game where someone got themselves modkilled on day one by not following a rule about quoting from their PM or something.

Probably my biggest WTF moment of recent games. Completely facepalmed when I realised what I'd done.

Better safe than sorry is definetely the way to go until it's clarified.

[Silencer]

Love the new sig, dibsy.

@Grief - yeah, it was a shame, and I think everyone was facepalming when it happened. Ah well.

[Shinrei]

What I said has nothing to do about posting times, or even speculating that The Dude was lurking. My point is, he voted with 30 minutes left, for someone who wasn't the main candidate to be lynched, and seemed unwilling/unprepared to change his vote to get a lynch.

[Shinrei]

Dammit dibs....

[Silencer]

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Ok, there are two things that I don't like about the train. One is The Dude voted for Silencer with less than a half an hour left, and then didn't change/wasnt around to change. He may have decided to leave believing that it was for sure a lynch, but PS posted about 9 minutes after his last post with the info Roldom was dead.

I know, Shin, but there is a lot of reference to time, posting, and participation in there. "Wasn't around", "decided to leave", "9 minutes after his last post", "half an hour left".

I don't think you should be modkilled for it, and hell, I'd hate it if you were, but it's the latest in a series of posts by various people which is, to my mind, skirting the line of the WORD of the rules. I'm using it to illustrate that we're being careless about this stuff.

[Grief]

Anyway, I've got to go now. Be back in a couple of hours.

[Shinrei]

Grief, on 23 February 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

Anyway, I've got to go now. Be back in a couple of hours.

Grief should be modkilled for this. He talks about not a player not being around and when they'll be back. It has references to time n' stuff.


Seriously, wtf? I wasn't even making a meta argument!

[Silencer]

Anyway, at the risk of being blamed for distracting people from the issue at hand (heh), I'm going to bed.

But first, I'd like to leave a list of people I find suspicious, and a short reason or two why:

Dibs: He's playing calmly. Shin mentioned the infamous signature regarding this, but seeing as non-time-based-meta is allowed, I'm going to pull it out here. The man's being reasonable, reserved, and uninvolved. He's not being smooth perfect, but it's creeping me out. I know, I know, 'gut feelings', etc, but this is dibs we're talking about.

PB: Until I hear back from him on the WIFOM issue, IGMEOY in a major way. You're the most analytical, reasonable player we have, and you're brining up hypothetical kill scenarios on day two to point the finger at people. Suspicious as hell, imo.

Ace Hunter: Epic meta is epic, but having played RL mafia with him, when he is jumping all over the place making vague statements about this and that, he's usually scum. I can probably actually do a quote-case on him in this regard, but that will have to wait for morning.




And, of course, I'm maintaining an open mind and a healthy level of paranoia about everyone else.

[Silencer]

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

Grief, on 23 February 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

Anyway, I've got to go now. Be back in a couple of hours.

Grief should be modkilled for this. He talks about not a player not being around and when they'll be back. It has references to time n' stuff.


Seriously, wtf? I wasn't even making a meta argument!

OK, now you're just over-reacting, Shin. Read my posts again. Did I say you should be modkilled? No, I said you should be careful. Read your own post again. You are making the start of a case predicated on when SOMEONE POSTED. And on the fact that they then DIDN'T POST. Then read the rules. Carefully. It's on the line, bro, until D'rek gets on and specifies.

[Ace Hunter]

Silencer, on 23 February 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

Ace Hunter: Epic meta is epic, but having played RL mafia with him, when he is jumping all over the place making vague statements about this and that, he's usually scum. I can probably actually do a quote-case on him in this regard, but that will have to wait for morning.

And, of course, I'm maintaining an open mind and a healthy level of paranoia about everyone else.

Real-life mafia is different, as I don't have to keep backtracking posts just to find a damned quote.

[Silencer]

Specifically, I'm referring to this line:


ALL DISCUSSION OF WHEN PLAYERS ARE ACTIVE ON THE THREAD IS STRICTLY NOT ALLOWED BY ANY PLAYER.


Granted, saying you're not going to be here is toeing the line. But talking about being suspicious of someone BECAUSE OF WHEN THEY VOTED is beyond that, it's pushing the line. *shrug*

[Ace Hunter]

Besides, I never was good at proving statements anyway. I remember the last and only time I tried making a case, it was VERY bad.

[Tapper]

Shinrei, on 23 February 2011 - 10:48 AM, said:

What I said has nothing to do about posting times, or even speculating that The Dude was lurking. My point is, he voted with 30 minutes left, for someone who wasn't the main candidate to be lynched, and seemed unwilling/unprepared to change his vote to get a lynch.

At that point, Tatts was in all fairness not yet the main target. The most discussed one, most certainly. But the vote count just before or after his vote, was 5 for Silencer, 4 for Tattersail, 4 for Ment.

[drinksinbars]

I think if people were modkilled for that it would be ridiculiously harsh. but lets put that aside and focus on the game.