[Tatterdemalion]

Hi guys. Spoilers, all books. Natch.

So I was reading the ending to Reaper's Gale yesterday when Silchas Ruin gets, well, ruined by the combined efforts of Fiddler, Hedge and Quick Ben. I thought to myself "dragons get beaten up a LOT in these books" so I thought I'd try to write out all the dragon scenarios I can remember and whether the dragon won or lost - I'm talking soletaken form here, or Elient. I welcome all contributions!

1. Silanah vs. Raest - winner: Raest.
While Raest was beaten until he slipped from his body, this was through the combined efforts of lots of folks. By himself, if I recall, Raest beat up on Silanah pretty bad. Pre-K'rul.

2. Silchas Ruin vs. Lether - winner: Lether.
Silchas Ruin simply gets bitchslapped here by the sappers and Quick.

3. Orfantal vs. Kallor - winner: Kallor.
Orfantal is a huge bad-ass dragon, yet somehow unable to shake/kill a wily old man. Wily, I say!

4. Rake vs. Tenescowri - winner: Rake.
Rake murders a pile of Tenescowri as soletaken briefly. Lopsided, but badass. One for the dragons... sorta.

5. Menadore, Sukul, Shelthana vs. Quick Ben, Hedge and renegade T'lan Imass of the Refugium - winner: Refugium.
Menadore and Shelthana get blasted up by QB, then once Menadore is dead, Shelthana dies to Hedge's cusser. Sukul didn't die this way, but she still 'lost the fight' as a soletaken. They all did.

6. Elient vs. Kilmandaros - winner: Kilmandaros.
Kilmandaros punches a LOT of dragons to death, or so I'm lead to believe.

7. Some Dragon in The Crippled God (as per front cover) vs. something - winner: something.
I don't know what happens, but as per the cover another dragon gets wasted.

I'm chalking a score of DRAGONS: 1, OPPONENTS: 7 +/- however many Kilmandaros has killed (10-500, say)

Thoughts?

[Ceda Cicero]

It's all very true. You've also got the OD getting it's world painfucked sideways for millenia upon millenia upon millenia, as well as the Serc dragon being sucked dry by the KCNR to create a gate.

Conclusion: McQueen could jump his bike over Korabas's crucified ass all day long without breaking a sweat.

This post has been edited by Ciceronian: 20 December 2010 - 11:41 PM

[Ulrik]

They have problem because of convergence. Take one convergence and you have 99% that it contains human. And you know what Paran said...:-) And if its not human, its some damned Tyrant or something like that...covergence, killer of dragons:-)

[amphibian]

The cover of The Crippled God is supposedly a "new" dragon and Yedan Derryg, the Watch.

I'm going to go ahead and scratch a "W" for the Watch in that one. Any objections?

[Ceda Cicero]

amphibian, on 21 December 2010 - 01:06 AM, said:

The cover of The Crippled God is supposedly a "new" dragon and Yedan Derryg, the Watch.

I'm going to go ahead and scratch a "W" for the Watch in that one. Any objections?

None. In fact, Yedan may be Wu's Steve McQueen.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i assume the bitch-slapping of scabandari is just one of the many under the eleint v kilmandaros heading

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I would add that apparently Rake killed Tiam before he had eleint blood. And others may have as well.

[MTS]

There's also all the feral dragons that Rake and Kilmandaros curb-stomped in Emurlahn, as well as Kalse, Eloth and Ampelas, and the dragon we see on the cruciform in the DoD prologue. Torrent literally bitch-slaps Olar Ethil, while Silanah gets a coruscating bitch-slap from Cowl in Mott Wood.

Oh, and whatever killed Tulas Shorn.

This post has been edited by MTS: 21 December 2010 - 02:29 AM

[Tatterdemalion]

Olar Ethil doesn't count though because she was not in her soletaken form.
I mean physical dragons, not just people who are sometimes dragons.

(unless she WAS a dragon when Torrent reemed her, I forget DoD)

[MTS]

I know it doesn't count, but the fact she didn't turn into a dragon and eat him shows how badass it was.

[Roldom]

isnt it more a case that dragons live for so long there eventually gonna run into something bigger and badder than they are, everythin else dies of old age but they just keep getting bigger and more arrogent and careless

admitidly reast took on silanah and about5-6 soletaken dragons at the same time and was holding his own (his body did get shreded and he had to leave...)

dragons are badass, but theres always something bigger

[Aptorian]

Pretty much all the examples mentioned above is either a dragon vs a big scary ascendant powerhouse or a dragon who was so sure of itself that it didn't to cover its bases.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

Hi guys. Spoilers, all books. Natch.

So I was reading the ending to Reaper's Gale yesterday when Silchas Ruin gets, well, ruined by the combined efforts of Fiddler, Hedge and Quick Ben. I thought to myself "dragons get beaten up a LOT in these books" so I thought I'd try to write out all the dragon scenarios I can remember and whether the dragon won or lost - I'm talking soletaken form here, or Elient. I welcome all contributions!

1. Silanah vs. Raest - winner: Raest.
While Raest was beaten until he slipped from his body, this was through the combined efforts of lots of folks. By himself, if I recall, Raest beat up on Silanah pretty bad. Pre-K'rul.

Raest is probably the most powerful ascendant we have seen, or at least the one we have seen show the most destructive potential. Even Rake suspected that he might die in a fight with Raest (lets not get into that discussion).

Raest was immune to physical damage and could apparently withstand the dragons warrens. Which makes him pretty much the worst thing for a dragon to face... well, except for a cusser.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

2. Silchas Ruin vs. Lether - winner: Lether.
Silchas Ruin simply gets bitchslapped here by the sappers and Quick.

Ruin was too angry and too ignorant to use his head. In his time there was no such thing as a cusser, so the only thing you had to worry about was a strong mage or ascendant getting in your way. Imagine his surprise when a tiny mortal figure lobs a clay ball at him and it not only explodes it punches straight through his magically enhanced armor and then some crazy mage suddenly opens 12 warrens, TWELVE?!?, and gives him a broadside while he is down.

I think if anything that scene was a testiment to how strong Ruin is. He took several cussers and the full brunt of Quicks new and improved magical potential and was able to fly away. That's fucking strong.

What if Ruin has just hovered over Lether and rained death from above bow range. It would suck to be there that day.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

3. Orfantal vs. Kallor - winner: Kallor.
Orfantal is a huge bad-ass dragon, yet somehow unable to shake/kill a wily old man. Wily, I say!

I never did like this scene. Again it is a case of a dragon being too assure of its size advantage but the thing that gets me is that I don't really see how a sword through the throat could kill it. Dragons/Soletaken usually show an ability to soak up crazy amounts of damage with out dying. So why the hell is a puncture wound in the next enough to kill Orfantal?

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

4. Rake vs. Tenescowri - winner: Rake.
Rake murders a pile of Tenescowri as soletaken briefly. Lopsided, but badass. One for the dragons... sorta.

Sort of? Rakes scene was a perfect example of why Dragons are awesome. Kills people in the boatloads and doesn't afraid of anything.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

5. Menadore, Sukul, Shelthana vs. Quick Ben, Hedge and renegade T'lan Imass of the Refugium - winner: Refugium.
Menadore and Shelthana get blasted up by QB, then once Menadore is dead, Shelthana dies to Hedge's cusser. Sukul didn't die this way, but she still 'lost the fight' as a soletaken. They all did.

Again. Arrogance and ignorance. If the dragons had not been so self assure they'd have attacked from different angles and they'd opened up early. You'd also think they'd be clever enough to not fall for the old Earth Attack trick after millenia. And the last kill by the suicidal Bonecasters was just pathetic. She could have burned them where they stood, but noooo.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

6. Elient vs. Kilmandaros - winner: Kilmandaros.
Kilmandaros punches a LOT of dragons to death, or so I'm lead to believe.

Again, like Raest, Killy is an Elder God, of Destruction no less, she is a powerhouse. The thing you have to wonder about with her is that she seems unable to fly. So how the fuck did she kill all those dragons? I am assuming she is capable of throwing a lot of magic around if it pleases her.

Tatterdemalion, on 20 December 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

7. Some Dragon in The Crippled God (as per front cover) vs. something - winner: something.
I don't know what happens, but as per the cover another dragon gets wasted.
I'm chalking a score of DRAGONS: 1, OPPONENTS: 7 +/- however many Kilmandaros has killed (10-500, say)

Thoughts?

The dragon on that cover is the size of a Aircraft Carrier. Not really a dragon you kill with a stab from a sword... unless that sword is really big or Dragnipur.

This post has been edited by Jenisapt Rul: 21 December 2010 - 07:47 AM

[Gothos]

As for Raest, I think it goes in the family. Icarium's badass too... and the father of the family doesn't like to show off. More screentime for the G-man imo!


As for Menandore, Sukhul and Sheltata - they were so sure of an easy victory it pains to read. They even all planned to turn on each other whenever they have a chance.



But I'll have to agree with the OP, Dragons in these books seem to suffer greatly from the Worf Effect.

[pathos]

Worf Effect?

[MTS]

http://tvtropes.org/...n/TheWorfEffect

We do have mention of them being total badasses though, like when they try and wipe out the FA.

[Aptorian]

Damn YOU for linking to TV-tropes. Damn you to hell!

What the hell am I supposed to to with all these tabs I have open?!

[pathos]

MTS, on 21 December 2010 - 09:59 AM, said:

http://tvtropes.org/...n/TheWorfEffect

We do have mention of them being total badasses though, like when they try and wipe out the FA.

Thanks man... i should really just have googled it but had a bit of a brain fart and forgot about the google machine

[Abyss]

MTS, on 21 December 2010 - 09:59 AM, said:

We do have mention of them being total badasses though, like when they try and wipe out the FA.

If MT is to be believed, Silchas more or less single-handedly caused the genocide of the FA as a race.

Dragons also nuked an unknown number of KC cities.

Dragons made it possible for Krul to shape the warrens.

[amphibian]

Jenisapt Rul, on 21 December 2010 - 07:44 AM, said:

The dragon on that cover is the size of a Aircraft Carrier. Not really a dragon you kill with a stab from a sword... unless that sword is really big or Dragnipur.

It's Yedan Derryg. I'm not betting against him if it's anything other than an Elder God.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 21 December 2010 - 04:43 PM, said:

Jenisapt Rul, on 21 December 2010 - 07:44 AM, said:

The dragon on that cover is the size of a Aircraft Carrier. Not really a dragon you kill with a stab from a sword... unless that sword is really big or Dragnipur.

It's Yedan Derryg. I'm not betting against him if it's anything other than an Elder God.

I'm betting he just stabs it in the toe and then runs up the body all the way to its nose opening it up like a pinãta.

- Ãbÿŝŝ, ...