[blackzoid]

SPOILERS for the book


I'll just repeat this from another post.

1: Why do the Stormriders not just go around the Stormwall? The 3 CG fragments are in The Hole, the centre of Fist Sea and Sky Tower. NOT the Stormwall.
Also
2: Why did the Stormriders attack Malaz Isle?
3: Why do the Stormriders hate the CG fragments anyway? Were they the original inhabitants of pre-Fall Korel?
4: And why didn't ICE give us more on the Stormriders in general, a small POV maybe. This book was calling out for one, I think so anyway. Thats what I thought the "Sea Folk" were going to be.

Seriously, 1-3 needed to be answered in this book. Especially the first one. Are they only confined to the Sea of Storms? I didn't get that impression from RoTCG.
Would have been nice to get answers on 2 and 3 too. So the fisherman and Kiska's Aunt were mistaken about their intentions in NoK? Or did the Stormriders just mellow out after NoK?

I loved this book, but we needed more answers on the Stormriders. All that speculation about their links to the Jaghut too. Unless ICE takes it up in another book, we will have no answers.

[Tattersail_]

it felt to me like he just wanted to end the book, this book could have went on for another 4 hundred pages. the ending seemed too quick, not phat enough. what happened when the wall was breached? okay a massive tidal wave and then what? Rillish just fell in but survived and returned home. I just don't get it, what was the point on the malazan's conquering/invading? i have just finished and i loved the book, liked everything about it, except there should have been more about it, i agree with the stormriders pov, i am left confused by the ending, i may have to re read the last 200 pages and see what I can make of it

[Silk]

surely the whole reason for the malazan attack was retribution and to kind of smack the naughty malazans in Rool for being bad.

[PizzaBread]

My understanding after reading the book was that the storm guard and their conscripts standing the wall and dying fighting the riders acted as a blood sacrifice that stoped them from entering their lands. The wall itself had the piece of flesh paraded up and down it during its construction aimed at keeping the riders out, so maybe thats two reasons that the riders couldn't go around.

[blackzoid]

PizzaBread

A good answer, but were the Stormriders not attacking the new settlers on Korel already before the Lady told the first group of the Stormguard to mark the line of the future Stormwall?
This was shown in the prologue. So even then they could not go around?

And as regards NoK, if their goal is to destroy the CG fragments, what did they achieve by attacking Malaz Isle? Was it to usurp the power of the Shadow House to destroy the CG fragments?

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 13 December 2010 - 01:31 PM

[Cause]

I have the same question about the malazan. Surely they can land elsehwere on the continent. Mare cant defend every strecth of coastline surely?

[Khellendros]

It's said in one of the other books - although unhelpfully I can't remember which one - that the Stormriders appear confined to the Sea of Storms, i.e. that channel between Malaz Isle and Korel. But it's never explained why. So perhaps there's something preventing them from going west or east, they can only travel up or down the channel. Of course, once the Stormwall is down, we do see them spread up and over Korel.

[Gothos]

Mare always knows when a fleet is starting to go Korel way, as indicated by Devaleth. They can't go through the Ocean of Storms to land Korel-side, not to mention the Stormwall blocking that part of the coast off. So East, to Fist. Take a stronghold and port to disembark efficiently and start marching. We know next to nothing about northwestern Skolati (or whatever's the name), besides it being mostly empty on the map - maybe rather bad for making a landing?
Also, remember that Mare contributes every available ship to catch the Malazan fleets, AND they always know where said fleets are and are going.
Jourilan... tbh it'd take the Malazans to go there from some odd angle not involving going through the Ocean of Storms a lot longer than Mare to react accordingly and catch them anyway. Besides that point is precisely the other end of the continent from the 6th Army. And we don't really know what the coastline's like.
Of all things on this continent, landing on Fist seems to make the most sense.

[blackzoid]

 Khellendros, on 13 December 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

It's said in one of the other books - although unhelpfully I can't remember which one - that the Stormriders appear confined to the Sea of Storms, i.e. that channel between Malaz Isle and Korel. But it's never explained why. So perhaps there's something preventing them from going west or east, they can only travel up or down the channel. Of course, once the Stormwall is down, we do see them spread up and over Korel.

But in the Stonewielder prologue, they are seen attacking the settlers before the Stormwall is even built. They don't sweep over in a huge wave like they do at the end of the book.
Surely the Lady has got less defenders at that stage than millenia later?

Ya, I remember something as well about the Stormriders been confined to that sea. But in RotCG, didn't Kyle and Greymane see them when they were on their war to Stratem from Baal? The time when the riders saluted Greymane.
I don't think the Crimson Guard ships went anywhere near the Sea of Storms there.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 13 December 2010 - 03:28 PM

[D'rek]

They fought the Marese blockade around Falt, and there's nothing on the map north of that, so trying to land on the northern coast would probably have stranded the whole army in the jungle or something like that.

[Werthead]

I wonder if Tavore and Mallick will turn out to have been in cahoots or something. Whilst the Bonehunters are off to the far side of the planet to do their thing with the Crippled God, Mallick sent another army to Korel to deal with the CG fragments there, but it didn't quite work. Of course, if Tavore is working to free the CG and Mallick is out to destroy him, they could be in opposition.

[Abyss]

 blackzoid, on 13 December 2010 - 01:29 PM, said:

PizzaBread

A good answer, but were the Stormriders not attacking the new settlers on Korel already before the Lady told the first group of the Stormguard to mark the line of the future Stormwall?
This was shown in the prologue. So even then they could not go around?

It would appear that for whatever reason, the Riders were limited in range.
Also likely that the Lady/CG was already 'fighting' them, but he/she coopted the settlers to make it easier.

There is SO much we don't know about the Riders. One of my few real beefs with the book because these seem like fairly important points.

Quote

And as regards NoK, if their goal is to destroy the CG fragments, what did they achieve by attacking Malaz Isle? Was it to usurp the power of the Shadow House to destroy the CG fragments?

Yep. Power grab.

 Werthead, on 13 December 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

I wonder if Tavore and Mallick will turn out to have been in cahoots or something. Whilst the Bonehunters are off to the far side of the planet to do their thing with the Crippled God, Mallick sent another army to Korel to deal with the CG fragments there, but it didn't quite work. Of course, if Tavore is working to free the CG and Mallick is out to destroy him, they could be in opposition.

Someone theorized elsethread that with his old connecton to Mael, Mallick knew something of what was really going on on Fist, hence getting Greymane for the job.

It's sort of wide open whether the purpose was just to wreck the renegade 6th and re-open trade or to remove the Rider threat and/or a deliberate move against the CG... i tend to think it was the first and the second and third were unanticipated bonuses.

[Ampelas]

 Abyss, on 13 December 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

 blackzoid, on 13 December 2010 - 01:29 PM, said:

PizzaBread

A good answer, but were the Stormriders not attacking the new settlers on Korel already before the Lady told the first group of the Stormguard to mark the line of the future Stormwall?
This was shown in the prologue. So even then they could not go around?

It would appear that for whatever reason, the Riders were limited in range.
Also likely that the Lady/CG was already 'fighting' them, but he/she coopted the settlers to make it easier.

There is SO much we don't know about the Riders. One of my few real beefs with the book because these seem like fairly important points.

Quote

And as regards NoK, if their goal is to destroy the CG fragments, what did they achieve by attacking Malaz Isle? Was it to usurp the power of the Shadow House to destroy the CG fragments?

Yep. Power grab.

 Werthead, on 13 December 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

I wonder if Tavore and Mallick will turn out to have been in cahoots or something. Whilst the Bonehunters are off to the far side of the planet to do their thing with the Crippled God, Mallick sent another army to Korel to deal with the CG fragments there, but it didn't quite work. Of course, if Tavore is working to free the CG and Mallick is out to destroy him, they could be in opposition.

Someone theorized elsethread that with his old connecton to Mael, Mallick knew something of what was really going on on Fist, hence getting Greymane for the job.

It's sort of wide open whether the purpose was just to wreck the renegade 6th and re-open trade or to remove the Rider threat and/or a deliberate move against the CG... i tend to think it was the first and the second and third were unanticipated bonuses.

did you think the book was bad abyss or did you enjoy? i liked it, i just think the ending could have been more fleshed out, it seemed kind of rushed imo

[nacht]

ICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCE..........................
Who the f are these Storm Riders .......

The crippled got is the god of love and since he left their world, the people of that world havent been getting any. So they jumped dimensions (you know what people do to get some).
Unfortunately, some ugly bitch whom nobody liked got all those pieces and voila, the people have been enchanted by the "lady" since then. Now you know why she hates the Enchanteress. Jealousy, jealousy.. Ah what it makes women do.

Since then the Storm Riders have just gone grazy. Try living without sex for 5000 years and you will surely join their ranks.

[Abyss]

 Ampelas, on 13 December 2010 - 10:49 PM, said:

did you think the book was bad abyss or did you enjoy? i liked it, i just think the ending could have been more fleshed out, it seemed kind of rushed imo

Per elsethread, i liked it a lot and thought it was a solid entry into the series. Not the best book, but still better than a lot of fantasy out there.

I was even fine with the ending in that 'ok it's Malaz we're never going to get the whole story' sort of way.

[PizzaBread]

 blackzoid, on 13 December 2010 - 01:29 PM, said:

PizzaBread

A good answer, but were the Stormriders not attacking the new settlers on Korel already before the Lady told the first group of the Stormguard to mark the line of the future Stormwall?
This was shown in the prologue. So even then they could not go around?

And as regards NoK, if their goal is to destroy the CG fragments, what did they achieve by attacking Malaz Isle? Was it to usurp the power of the Shadow House to destroy the CG fragments?

I know i'm really late in replying and probably the issue has been settled, internet problems :s. I read the prologue and thought 2 things. Maybe the riders were actually attacking on many fronts until the ritual confined them to the sea of storms or maybe they just didn't have the numbers or strength. They had just entered the world and who knows whether they came voluntarily or not but either way it would be a massive undertaking and take some time to recover

[Skywalker]

One more question that went unanswered...

Even if you take the "power grab" explanation for the Rider's actions in NoK, nothing in Stonewielder explained why that lone Rider dying at the end, found by an old guy and two kids asks the old guy "Why are you killing us?" or something like that.

Not adequately at least... I mean you could say it was a comment along the lines of "Why are you standing in our way all the way over on Korel and not letting us get to the Ring/ etc." but that isn't what the Rider says, as I read it.

[Mentalist]

iirc, in NoK, the Riders made a deal with the Jhaghut guardian to attack the House and free her. that was the only reason they turned up by Malaz.

also, crazy theory: the chunk of CG that fell in the Ocean of stroms opened up the way for to the Rider's home. it is the one place where they can enter Wu. or something....

[Abyss]

 Mentalist, on 20 December 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

iirc, in NoK, the Riders made a deal with the Jhaghut guardian to attack the House and free her. that was the only reason they turned up by Malaz.

Don't think so. NoK seemed to make it clear that fisherman god guy had been rowing out to stop them any number of times before, but was significantly weakened because of the Mouse purges.

Quote

also, crazy theory: the chunk of CG that fell in the Ocean of stroms opened up the way for to the Rider's home. it is the one place where they can enter Wu. or something....

Probably not crazy at all. And maybe the only place they can get back was blocked by the Stormwall.

[Mentalist]

 Abyss, on 20 December 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

 Mentalist, on 20 December 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

iirc, in NoK, the Riders made a deal with the Jhaghut guardian to attack the House and free her. that was the only reason they turned up by Malaz.

Don't think so. NoK seemed to make it clear that fisherman god guy had been rowing out to stop them any number of times before, but was significantly weakened because of the Mouse purges.

Quote

also, crazy theory: the chunk of CG that fell in the Ocean of stroms opened up the way for to the Rider's home. it is the one place where they can enter Wu. or something....

Probably not crazy at all. And maybe the only place they can get back was blocked by the Stormwall.

the fact that that time they brought a stolen ship probably didn't help....

although taking another look at the map, I can't help but think there are other ways to get to the Hole that do not involve breaking through the wall...