[QuickTidal]

blackzoid, on 30 June 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

"Expect way too much of transfomrers" Wny NOT demand the best of transformers. I just gave The Dark Knight as an example of something which contains the same characters as a film that is utterly rubbish. Another example would be Aliens/Predator and the combined AVP films. Huge change in standards but containing the same characters. Its the difference between bad films and good films.

Transfomers doesn't have to be the next Citzen Kane, but we as consumers should demand that it be competant. That the characters and story engage us. That there not be jumpy editing and nonsensical continuity. That the characters not act like complete numbskulls.

I don't want to get into spoiler territory, but taken as a whole the film was mishapen junk. I felt no connection with anything. I didn't care if any character lived or died. What does it matter if Megatron or Op Prime won if I didn't care? At some points humans are killed. I openly laughed out loud in the cinema. Thats not a good sign.
You say you don't want Emo transfomrers, neither do I. I do want some depth however. That doesn't have to involve Emo.

For all the blathering on that Bay said that this film would be darker than the others, it was all false. There was no darkness, it was cheesy battle-porn mixed with female body lingering. Thats it.

"This isn't comic books. The comic books have a different feel because they are significantly darker. One where a decepticon with grab a human in his hand and crush him until blood leaks out of his cold metal fingers....eff that, I don't watch Transformers for that sort of darkness sorry."

I don't want that sort of story either. Robot on Robot violence by itself is fine. But just imagine a film version of IDW's Last Stand of the Wreckers.
Lots of robot violence, but plenty of heart too. The robots are actual characters. It means something if they die.

See, you didn't engage, but that doesn't mean the movie didn't make others engage....like myself, it totally engaged me...so let's call this what it is...you didn't like it and it didn't engage you but that's clearly subjective since it did to me.

Spoiler

Dark...Dark is seeing the old transformer guy shot point blank to the head, his liquids and oils splattering out. Dark is Optimus Prime pumping two rounds into Sentinel Primes head as he already lays dying, and then turns around and with one arm as Megatron asks "what would you do without me?" after he says "Let's find out" he rips Megatron into pieces. Sorry...that's dark man...just cause it's happening to robots doesn't make it any less so. How about Sentinel Prime not only betraying the Autobots and the humans but thenhe disintegrates IronHide...that was emotional to me. This was Optimus's #1, his go to warrior, the biggest defender of justice...who just got done saving Sentinel Primes ass from TWO decepticons by taking them out together....that was a betrayal I FELT...and it was also a death I FELT.

Agree to disagree I guess, but I feel like you saw a different movie from the one I saw. The one I saw had plenty of the things you seem to think it doesn't.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 June 2011 - 03:12 PM

[blackzoid]

Won't argue as to why it engaged you and not me but as to its darkness:

Spoiler

"Dark...Dark is seeing the old transformer guy shot point blank to the head, his liquids and oils splattering out. Dark is Optimus Prime pumping two rounds into Sentinel Primes head as he already lays dying, and then turns around and with one arm as Megatron asks "what would you do without me?" after he says "Let's find out" he rips Megatron into pieces. Sorry...that's dark man...just cause it's happening to robots doesn't make it any less so. How about Sentinel Prime not only betraying the Autobots and the humans but thenhe disintegrates IronHide...that was emotional to me. This was Optimus's #1, his go to warrior, the biggest defender of justice...who just got done saving Sentinel Primes ass from TWO decepticons by taking them out together....that was a betrayal I FELT...and it was also a death I FELT"

No. Ironhide, we had no connection with. Sentinal Prime, no real connection with. If they really wanted dark...Bumblebee should have died at the end. Really. That execution scene (when were they captured? Why did the decipticons not execute them as soon as they caught them? Why didn't Bumblebee use his arm cannons all the bloody time?) would have meant something if Bee had died. Theres only 2 Autobot characters in these films, Bee and Prime. If we are to continue the theme of Sam growing up, than BumbleBee should have died. Not some obvious stand-in like Ironhide who we have not really seen much off over these films, and whoever that Einsten Autobot (Q was it?) was.
It was full of generics die-ing. Not main characters. Both generic humans and transfomrers. The darkness was cosmetic.

And hey, what a gold-mine of an idea at the start with the idea of the Autobots engaging in black-ops versus other humans. Not Decipticons. Is it expanded upon? No. What an utter waste.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 30 June 2011 - 03:38 PM

[D'rek]

Why is it that so many critics argue that Transformers should have emotional depth, but I got strange looks when I argue that Water for Elephants should have exploding robots...

[QuickTidal]

D, on 30 June 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

Why is it that so many critics argue that Transformers should have emotional depth, but I got strange looks when I argue that Water for Elephants should have exploding robots...

WIN! Sig-worthy even!

[QuickTidal]

blackzoid, on 30 June 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

Won't argue as to why it engaged you and not me but as to its darkness:

Spoiler

"Dark...Dark is seeing the old transformer guy shot point blank to the head, his liquids and oils splattering out. Dark is Optimus Prime pumping two rounds into Sentinel Primes head as he already lays dying, and then turns around and with one arm as Megatron asks "what would you do without me?" after he says "Let's find out" he rips Megatron into pieces. Sorry...that's dark man...just cause it's happening to robots doesn't make it any less so. How about Sentinel Prime not only betraying the Autobots and the humans but thenhe disintegrates IronHide...that was emotional to me. This was Optimus's #1, his go to warrior, the biggest defender of justice...who just got done saving Sentinel Primes ass from TWO decepticons by taking them out together....that was a betrayal I FELT...and it was also a death I FELT"

No. Ironhide, we had no connection with. Sentinal Prime, no real connection with. If they really wanted dark...Bumblebee should have died at the end. Really. That execution scene (when were they captured? Why did the decipticons not execute them as soon as they caught them? Why didn't Bumblebee use his arm cannons all the bloody time?) would have meant something if Bee had died. Theres only 2 Autobot characters in these films, Bee and Prime. If we are to continue the theme of Sam growing up, than BumbleBee should have died. Not some obvious stand-in like Ironhide who we have not really seen much off over these films, and whoever that Einsten Autobot (Q was it?) was.
It was full of generics die-ing. Not main characters. Both generic humans and transfomrers. The darkness was cosmetic.

And hey, what a gold-mine of an idea at the start with the idea of the Autobots engaging in black-ops versus other humans. Not Decipticons. Is it expanded upon? No. What an utter waste.

Spoiler

Nope. Ironhide was a main character. Sorry you lose.

[Salt-Man Z]

Scott and Blackzoid: I agree with you both 100%.

[Kanese S's]

Er... not sure I'd call the original cartoon "deep." Really fun, sure, but "deep"?

[stone monkey]

Saw this today. I would say that it's better than the 2nd one. Which is very much damning it with faint praise as it's pretty awful.

[Macros]

saw it last night.
was tricked into going.

Absolute tripe.
better than transformers 2, but saying that is saying that exhibit a is a better specimen than exhibit b, because the dog went to town on a box of glitter at some stage and his shit is sparkly.


Saying huntingly can deliver here lines offends me, she's a slightly less hot megan fox with acting ability on par.

anyone who disagrees with me is both wrong and an idiot

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 30 June 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

saw it last night.
was tricked into going.

Absolute tripe.
better than transformers 2, but saying that is saying that exhibit a is a better specimen than exhibit b, because the dog went to town on a box of glitter at some stage and his shit is sparkly.


Saying huntingly can deliver here lines offends me, she's a slightly less hot megan fox with acting ability on par.

anyone who disagrees with me is both wrong and an idiot

Oh quite naturally. wrong and idiot. Of course I am... because of my opinion. Yup. Good to see you haven't lost that "angriest man alive" moniker Macros.

LOL

I really fail to see what it is people are expecting from a movie based of Hasbro toys. It's a great action movie. That's ALL you should be expecting here. LOL This ain't masterpiece theatre.

[sappers rule]

I havent seen the transformers movie 3 yet but it doesnt matter. if u think about transformers in any sense u dont think deep plot and emotions u think giant robots beating the crap out of each other with humans in the middle, so if the movie delivers that then it is a transformer movie i dont give a dam if the plot is deep or not.

Its giant robots beating each other up what more do u want?!!!!

[Macros]

if it was just robots beating the piss (or waste oil) out of each other that would be tits.
hell lets throw in some tits just to make it duke nukem awesome.

but its not, it attempts to be cutesy and funny, which does'nt work
it attempts to be emotionally involving, which doesn't work
it attempts many things, which doesn't work.

for T4 (hmm, i accidently held down the shift key there and got T$, works right well I think) they should get the script, tie it to a corpse other than megatron and drop it into the fucking trench, 7 miles down, and just make it tits and robots beating the shit out of each other, stomping on humans in the process. maybe tear down the Eiffel tower and use it as some kind of spear, and to piss off the french.

but back to why t3 is a load of shite

well the upgrade that was no racial stereotype twins is automatically negated by retarded midgets. Actually retarded midgets might have been entertaining so I'll re-label them annoying little wankers that aren't funny unless you're two or can count to potatoe. (note the two need not be mutually exclusive)
next problem is Sam shitwicky's character.
He's a douche bag
now we gave the movie ok card on the first film that left him hooking up with megan due to extreme life experience shared. but as sandra bullock once said, people thrown together in fucked up shit usually fall apart when theres no fucked up shit, I might be off a little on the delivery, but in my defence there was a bus exploding at the time. Second film, he was a twat and megan shoulda roaded him at the get go, which aparently she did when bay finally realised she couldn't act for shit (as rosie shows, that matters.... hey wait, why was megan fired?)
Le Beef in T3 is still an asshole so theres simply no way he could keep a girl like that. I dont mean asshole in the "why do all the good girls end up with assholes" kind of asshole I mean an itchy asshole, and you're in a public place, maybe on stage at graduation, so scratching isnt an option. That kind of irritating asshole.
Story wise, blah blah blah, skip over plot holes and continuity its a dumb action film , ok (not really ok but I know apty mcsucksbayofferson will jump all over me saying "it doesnt need a plot its robots fighting blah blah, oh my god im going to come over my optimus poster")
I guess i'll have to spoiler some of this

Spoiler

They're robots that can jump design a fucking space transport portal gate that will move a FUCKING PLANET but they can't keep track of the US militaries comms or lock down a city for 10 minutes? fuck off

assassin robot becomes remarkably ineffectual when facing any character that needs to survive. point an case is clattering into a server then giving up when chasing sam.


robots held hostage, decepticons decide to kill them, bumble bee making meaningful eye contact, sam is crying like a little bitch, optimus flys by saving the day then bam autobots ASSEMBLE they're taking names and kicking ass, why sit down and accept getting your face blown off when you're clealry packing as you whip out a cannon the size of a large child a split second after throwing the first punch.
FUCK STOP TRYING TO EMOTIONALISE THIS FILM< IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK BAY

Optimus hanging upside down from a crane.
well where do we start?
how big is old optimus? no, dont get into bad science and the magic crane, its a sci-fi film
ok, ignoring the cranes super strenght we'll focus on him hanging out like a winged duck in hunting season.
this is the lame bison of the herd at this moment, cut him to pieces
or wait
autobots can tear other super robots to pieces, optimus is the daddy of the autobots, and he cant deal with a little steel rope?
really?
fuck off

I'm not even going to bother carrying on with this line, there to much retardation in this film, watching it killed some brain cells.

Boris or dutch or whatever his fucking name was.

blegh

The only remotely amusing character that was suppose to be entertaining was crazy former agent.

and dont even get me started on the stupid secret service

hello, did that last time round
didnt trust autobots, under estimated sam, didnt the annoying bitch read the fucking files?
actually, if aes sedai existed in sci-fi, they'd be her, a fucking twat that over plays every tired cliche of the american secret sevices.

old robot.
he was a pointless addition, much the same as crotchety pirate from 2, he was comic relief at the most retarded level, you have to be a moron to think he was funny.

again, I'll re-iterate. if this was a great action film, I'd say so.
sure the last battle was a visual spectacle, that made good use of 3d for a change (still fucking hate 3d though), but I'd rather sit outside and watch a fireworks display than 30 minutes of 30 nerds jerking each other off to see who can blow their cgi load first.
I'm guessing it was whoever was in charge of the snake thing, cause that wasn't and overly drawn out sequence of events, was it?


maybe it was the fact that i had to piss quite badly for the last half hour.
maybe its because it was 3d
maybe its because the cinema was a tad too warm for my tastes
maybe its because the popcorn was shit and fell to the little crumbly stuff very quickly
might even have been the flat coke

all of these factors contributed to an evening i'd rather forget.

but fix all those problems, and its still a piece of shit film, its just got glitter on it

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 30 June 2011 - 11:54 PM, said:

if it was just robots beating the piss (or waste oil) out of each other that would be tits.
hell lets throw in some tits just to make it duke nukem awesome.

but its not, it attempts to be cutesy and funny, which does'nt work
it attempts to be emotionally involving, which doesn't work
it attempts many things, which doesn't work.

for T4 (hmm, i accidently held down the shift key there and got T$, works right well I think) they should get the script, tie it to a corpse other than megatron and drop it into the fucking trench, 7 miles down, and just make it tits and robots beating the shit out of each other, stomping on humans in the process. maybe tear down the Eiffel tower and use it as some kind of spear, and to piss off the french.

but back to why t3 is a load of shite

well the upgrade that was no racial stereotype twins is automatically negated by retarded midgets. Actually retarded midgets might have been entertaining so I'll re-label them annoying little wankers that aren't funny unless you're two or can count to potatoe. (note the two need not be mutually exclusive)
next problem is Sam shitwicky's character.
He's a douche bag
now we gave the movie ok card on the first film that left him hooking up with megan due to extreme life experience shared. but as sandra bullock once said, people thrown together in fucked up shit usually fall apart when theres no fucked up shit, I might be off a little on the delivery, but in my defence there was a bus exploding at the time. Second film, he was a twat and megan shoulda roaded him at the get go, which aparently she did when bay finally realised she couldn't act for shit (as rosie shows, that matters.... hey wait, why was megan fired?)
Le Beef in T3 is still an asshole so theres simply no way he could keep a girl like that. I dont mean asshole in the "why do all the good girls end up with assholes" kind of asshole I mean an itchy asshole, and you're in a public place, maybe on stage at graduation, so scratching isnt an option. That kind of irritating asshole.
Story wise, blah blah blah, skip over plot holes and continuity its a dumb action film , ok (not really ok but I know apty mcsucksbayofferson will jump all over me saying "it doesnt need a plot its robots fighting blah blah, oh my god im going to come over my optimus poster")
I guess i'll have to spoiler some of this

Spoiler

They're robots that can jump design a fucking space transport portal gate that will move a FUCKING PLANET but they can't keep track of the US militaries comms or lock down a city for 10 minutes? fuck off

assassin robot becomes remarkably ineffectual when facing any character that needs to survive. point an case is clattering into a server then giving up when chasing sam.


robots held hostage, decepticons decide to kill them, bumble bee making meaningful eye contact, sam is crying like a little bitch, optimus flys by saving the day then bam autobots ASSEMBLE they're taking names and kicking ass, why sit down and accept getting your face blown off when you're clealry packing as you whip out a cannon the size of a large child a split second after throwing the first punch.
FUCK STOP TRYING TO EMOTIONALISE THIS FILM< IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK BAY

Optimus hanging upside down from a crane.
well where do we start?
how big is old optimus? no, dont get into bad science and the magic crane, its a sci-fi film
ok, ignoring the cranes super strenght we'll focus on him hanging out like a winged duck in hunting season.
this is the lame bison of the herd at this moment, cut him to pieces
or wait
autobots can tear other super robots to pieces, optimus is the daddy of the autobots, and he cant deal with a little steel rope?
really?
fuck off

I'm not even going to bother carrying on with this line, there to much retardation in this film, watching it killed some brain cells.

Boris or dutch or whatever his fucking name was.

blegh

The only remotely amusing character that was suppose to be entertaining was crazy former agent.

and dont even get me started on the stupid secret service

hello, did that last time round
didnt trust autobots, under estimated sam, didnt the annoying bitch read the fucking files?
actually, if aes sedai existed in sci-fi, they'd be her, a fucking twat that over plays every tired cliche of the american secret sevices.

old robot.
he was a pointless addition, much the same as crotchety pirate from 2, he was comic relief at the most retarded level, you have to be a moron to think he was funny.

again, I'll re-iterate. if this was a great action film, I'd say so.
sure the last battle was a visual spectacle, that made good use of 3d for a change (still fucking hate 3d though), but I'd rather sit outside and watch a fireworks display than 30 minutes of 30 nerds jerking each other off to see who can blow their cgi load first.
I'm guessing it was whoever was in charge of the snake thing, cause that wasn't and overly drawn out sequence of events, was it?


maybe it was the fact that i had to piss quite badly for the last half hour.
maybe its because it was 3d
maybe its because the cinema was a tad too warm for my tastes
maybe its because the popcorn was shit and fell to the little crumbly stuff very quickly
might even have been the flat coke

all of these factors contributed to an evening i'd rather forget.

but fix all those problems, and its still a piece of shit film, its just got glitter on it

Hey Macros, I don't know why you bothered going to see the movie. Seriously. You clearly have SUCH a hate on for Bay and this franchise, tell me why the fuck you bothered in the first place? If you have nothing of note worth contributing (continuing to rant as to why you subjectively thought it was bad doesn't count) to say then just GTFO and spare us the angry old man rant, cause it's old man. LOL

It melts my brain that you would even go see a movie in a franchise you so clearly despise. LOL. I guess I should congratulate the film on taking your well earned euros away from you.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 July 2011 - 01:28 AM

[Macros]

Don't have any euros to waste.
I don't hate Bay, I hate that some of his films can actually lower international IQ because they are so piss poorly co-ordinated.
If he's going to hark on about films being darker and all the rest and attempt to cobble a story together then he'd better make a fucking effort to do it. And at least try and sell us the idea that the first two films happened and can logically (remotely) fit into the timeline. If not then just don't try, turn it into a Royal rumble in the urban jungle with crazy drunks betting on the sidelines.
I'm not complaining about the quality of the action, although you'll have to admit some bits were retarded and overly drawn out. I'm complainig about the half added attempt that's made to shoehorn a story and characterisation in there. Do it right or don't bother
I can couch on this film all day if I want, my opinion is that its a stinker and the workd needs to know why LOL

[blackzoid]

Complaining that a movie should only have giant robots beating each other up, does NOT imply that said robots should beat each other up in a retarded/incompetant fashion. These creatures are millions of year old fighting machines? Must have been piss-poor tactics in the war from all the evidence.

And people who have seen it, just think about the back story plot of this film. Then think about the back story plot of the second film. Try and mix Megatrons plans from both films into one meaningful continuity. Don't. Your head will hurt. Bay obviously didn't bother researching the backstory of his own second-film.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 01 July 2011 - 09:00 AM

[Macros]

oh and ironhide?
Nobody. The retarded twins got more screen time in two and the wanker midgets got more in this one

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 01 July 2011 - 08:07 AM, said:

I can couch on this film all day if I want, my opinion is that its a stinker and the workd needs to know why LOL

LOL, and I think the world should know how awesome it is and how it's the best of the 3. We should set up shop on the corner like two rival lemonade stands and see who's thirstiest.

Also, I totally got neg repped for that post. haha. Thanks to that person...much obliged.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 July 2011 - 12:30 PM

[Macros]

I sell the best fucking lemonade ever.

[stone monkey]

tbh I didn't want to weigh in on this, because Macros has said it eloquently and lengthily enough for the both of us. But my basic summary of the film would be that it's slightly less stupid, a bit less crass, not quite as overtly racist and a smidgeon less boring than its predecessor. None of these facts make it into a good film, but they do make it a better film than Transformers 2 (which has the dubious distinction of being the worst film I've seen since Batman and Robin)

One can't deny Bay's talent for staging large action sequences. Unfortunately one also can't deny his other gift; that for making what should be awesome spectacle into something dull. I mean, how the hell do you make giant robots blowing shit up and kicking the crap out of one another into a yawnfest? Difficult, one would have thought, but Bay has managed it twice, so he appears to have the knack.

By most criteria, outside the purely technical ones (some of which it excels in - the sfx are mostly outstanding), Transformers 3 is a bad movie (a terrible one in fact); it's badly acted, poorly written, hamfistedly directed, dumb, incoherent, unfunny, about an hour too long and, at times, quite hatefully racist. Whether you enjoy it as an cinema going experience depends on how well its foibles (i.e. lots of shouting, shit blowing up, gun/military fetishism and an allegedly hot woman - although I really don't see where anyone's coming from with the last) push your individual buttons.

btw don't think I'm getting on my elitist high horse here and that I'm decrying the film for not being Bunuel or something. I absolutely adore some REALLY stupid films; Crank, for instance a film which gets around the problem of having pretty much all the same flaws as Transformers 2 & 3 by being inventively and comprehensively batshit insane. I dislike Transformers 3 for the reason that it fails at even its own modest goals - it's not even entertainingly stupid

[Primateus]

I just saw it, I liked it!

And I agree with Quick, Rosie huntiwhatever delivered her part better than Fox ever did, plus she's way hotter (which I'll agree is the sole reason she's there in the first place) Though I will say, that her giving a better performance than Fox isn't that big a compliment since Fox is the Terry Goodkind of acting!

Yeah, it's fair to say I liked this movie, it lived up to, and surpassed, all of my very low expectations. I'm not going to call anyone idiots for liking or disliking this movie. I am, however, going to call people idiots for paying money to see this movie and then expect a serious movie with a deep script/plot/twist/whatever.

Like Sapper said, this movie is about giant robots beating the crap out of eachother and humans running around screaming with some of them shooting back. It delivered that, it delivered it spectacularly.

Could you expect more from a movie such as this? yes, of course you could. Should you? No, and in this day and age you're a fool for doing so.

That being said, all this, from all of us, is subjective opinion only. When I exited the theatre I had gotten what I came for. Some people didn't, that's fine.