[The Seguleh 46th]

Since Abyss brought up something several days ago that i've been thinking, just wondered if starting a topic on her might be a bit of alright. Basically what he was stating is that maybe her intentions are not quite so clear as we would like to believe. I really have nothing to give you guys as far as anything remotely resembling proof, other than a strong gut feeling. Lent out my copy of RotCG, but there was a scene with her and Kyle and the Crippled God that got me thinking on the lines that maybe she isn't so nice, despite Life being her apparent aspect. And her apparent indifference regarding, well, pretty much everything. I realize this is paper-thin at best, so was more wanting to just sit back and read your guys' theories on what game she is playing here.

[Roldom]

it wouldnt shock me to find out shes not so nice....after all hood seems pretty decent, and hes the god of death, plus she makes a deal with leoman whose a dick

[Siergiej]

She saved Leoman. It puts her in a place as far from "nice" as You can imagine. And she is probably plotting something really nasty for the Grand Finale

[Bauchelain the Evil]

She saved Leoman because L'oric, the son of her old pal, asked her to and was also hoping that Corabb, blessed by Opponn, would have come. She did seem concerned for the fate of Felisin Younger in Hoc, after all. But then seeing how she is supposedly a great power who walked with other great powers, I'm pretty sure she isn't all flowers and roses.

[Ceda Cicero]

She used to roll around with Rake and Osserc back in the day. That's not necessarily a commentary on whether or not she's sugar, spice and everything nice, but it's safe to say that she's hardly Glenda from the Wizard of Oz if she was keeping company with the Son of Darkness and his soul-devouring sword.

And honestly, is there anyone in MBotF who is entirely one thing or the other? Even boy scouts like Trull have a complex range of emotions and baggage that SE doesn't hesitate to explore.

[The Seguleh 46th]

 Ciceronian, on 29 November 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

She used to roll around with Rake and Osserc back in the day. That's not necessarily a commentary on whether or not she's sugar, spice and everything nice, but it's safe to say that she's hardly Glenda from the Wizard of Oz if she was keeping company with the Son of Darkness and his soul-devouring sword.

And honestly, is there anyone in MBotF who is entirely one thing or the other? Even boy scouts like Trull have a complex range of emotions and baggage that SE doesn't hesitate to explore.

I understand that, in that no god/goddess/Ascendant is anything either "nice" or "not nice" using layman's terms. I mean, even holier than thou Rake, Whiskeyjack, Dassem Ultor, etc. have quite a few flaws. I guess i'm more wondering what you guys think her game might be, as we have next to nothing on her. Life-Aspected, but holding some pieces in stasis representing (possibly) Death and Apocalypse (via a reluctant Leoman)? A potential, albeit shaky alliance with Shadow? Interfering with the Crippled God in regards to a soldier aspected (again, possibly, with Kyle) to Light? Allowing Cutter to witness her meeting with the aforementioned Dunsparrow and Leoman? Different shit going on here!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 30 November 2010 - 08:08 PM

[worry]

My guess is that she'll do whatever it takes to keep people dreaming. She's not an elemental force, she is directly beholden to the existence of living, dreaming creatures. In that light, I imagine she is anti-apocalypse and pro-life (lolz), which wouldn't at all clash with ST and Cots (nor mind-related stuff like Mockra).

[The Seguleh 46th]

 worrywort, on 30 November 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

My guess is that she'll do whatever it takes to keep people dreaming. She's not an elemental force, she is directly beholden to the existence of living, dreaming creatures. In that light, I imagine she is anti-apocalypse and pro-life (lolz), which wouldn't at all clash with ST and Cots (nor mind-related stuff like Mockra).

Does she need humans to stay alive though? Beasts dream in this series, iirc, as well as possibly the nonhuman races.

[Roldom]

but wihtout humans who will worship her?

[worry]

I don't think the Crippled God's grudge is against humans in particular, or even intelligent beings. He would wipe all life from the planet if he got his way.

[worry]

A little thing re: Queen of Dreams. In HoC when L'oric is talking to his pop, he asks if Ossric trusts the QoD, and Ossric replies that he does. Then L'oric asks if QoD knows where Ossric is hiding/hibernating, and Ossric replies (paraphrased): "No, and that's why I can trust her." It's a much more clever exchange than my paraphrase, but essentially it makes it seem like QoD is a pretty tough cookie, regardless of the side she's on.

[ShadowRaven]

 Siergiej, on 29 November 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

She saved Leoman. It puts her in a place as far from "nice" as You can imagine. And she is probably plotting something really nasty for the Grand Finale

I'm not entirely sure Leoman is as bad as he is being set up to be. He resented the Malazans for a long time and essentially ended up caring about nothing because the Whirlwind rebellion was going nowhere after orig. Sha'ik's death, who was probably the only reason he was on board anyway. I always felt he did what he did at the end of BH because at that point he was a soldier without a cause. Leoman is still one of the most skilled generals known to the world, he just needs a new cause he can believe in.

As to the motives of QoD, I agree with previous posters. I can't base it on anything specific but I feel her attitude is sort of similar to what is explained of Burn in MoI. Burn only cares about the planet (herself) surviving, life will emerge again even if it is completely destroyed at some point. QoD probably only cares about (intelligent) life surviving, I get the feeling she is prepared to throw any single person, army, etc. away if it means intelligent/human life will survive.

[The Seguleh 46th]

 ShadowRaven, on 03 December 2010 - 04:38 AM, said:

 Siergiej, on 29 November 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

She saved Leoman. It puts her in a place as far from "nice" as You can imagine. And she is probably plotting something really nasty for the Grand Finale

I'm not entirely sure Leoman is as bad as he is being set up to be. He resented the Malazans for a long time and essentially ended up caring about nothing because the Whirlwind rebellion was going nowhere after orig. Sha'ik's death, who was probably the only reason he was on board anyway. I always felt he did what he did at the end of BH because at that point he was a soldier without a cause. Leoman is still one of the most skilled generals known to the world, he just needs a new cause he can believe in.

As to the motives of QoD, I agree with previous posters. I can't base it on anything specific but I feel her attitude is sort of similar to what is explained of Burn in MoI. Burn only cares about the planet (herself) surviving, life will emerge again even if it is completely destroyed at some point. QoD probably only cares about (intelligent) life surviving, I get the feeling she is prepared to throw any single person, army, etc. away if it means intelligent/human life will survive.

I like the paragragh regarding Leoman, as i essentially feel the same about him. And you and Worrywort do present solid arguements as well regarding the QOD and her possibly needing life to continue on this planet. It is her aspect after all, if i have the right of it. I just can't shake my gut though that something sinister seems to be about her. Then again, that's the fun of this series, eh, in speculation abounding amongst us all as readers?

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 03 December 2010 - 07:24 AM

[ShadowRaven]

 The Seguleh 46th, on 03 December 2010 - 07:23 AM, said:

 ShadowRaven, on 03 December 2010 - 04:38 AM, said:

 Siergiej, on 29 November 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

She saved Leoman. It puts her in a place as far from "nice" as You can imagine. And she is probably plotting something really nasty for the Grand Finale

I'm not entirely sure Leoman is as bad as he is being set up to be. He resented the Malazans for a long time and essentially ended up caring about nothing because the Whirlwind rebellion was going nowhere after orig. Sha'ik's death, who was probably the only reason he was on board anyway. I always felt he did what he did at the end of BH because at that point he was a soldier without a cause. Leoman is still one of the most skilled generals known to the world, he just needs a new cause he can believe in.

As to the motives of QoD, I agree with previous posters. I can't base it on anything specific but I feel her attitude is sort of similar to what is explained of Burn in MoI. Burn only cares about the planet (herself) surviving, life will emerge again even if it is completely destroyed at some point. QoD probably only cares about (intelligent) life surviving, I get the feeling she is prepared to throw any single person, army, etc. away if it means intelligent/human life will survive.

I like the paragragh regarding Leoman, as i essentially feel the same about him. And you and Worrywort do present solid arguements as well regarding the QOD and her possibly needing life to continue on this planet. It is her aspect after all, if i have the right of it. I just can't shake my gut though that something sinister seems to be about her. Then again, that's the fun of this series, eh, in speculation abounding amongst us all as readers?

I do get some of those nasty vibes about QoD as well (Maybe I'm just making an analogy to Narnia's White Witch or something ), but essentially in the same sense as I get them from Envy and Spite, them being extremely powerful, and temperamental, mages.

This post has been edited by ShadowRaven: 03 December 2010 - 07:44 AM

[Sinisdar Toste]

once the majority of people have read SW this thread should be moved there i think.

[The Seguleh 46th]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 06 December 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

once the majority of people have read SW this thread should be moved there i think.

When does the book get released in the US? Its fucking killing me here, especially after the above statement probably means she's involved in the Stonewielder saga......

[Roldom]

i feel the same seguleh, ithe w8s driving me insane

[MTS]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 06 December 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

once the majority of people have read SW this thread should be moved there i think.

Noooo don't say that, it just makes the wait harder...

[Sinisdar Toste]

oh dear, maybe i should have held my tongue for another month or so

[MTS]

...bastard.

So the bloated lady in the prologue is the QoD then I'm guessing? Interesting.

This post has been edited by MTS: 07 December 2010 - 04:52 AM