[Merrid]

Galain, on 01 December 2010 - 05:28 PM, said:

Merrid, on 01 December 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

How should I know? It's anyone's guess at this stage. I would definitely expect each team to have at least one vig though, and although I think Yuan Shao only being more likely, I can probably see each faction having a killer, . This game will rack up some bodies quickly if that's the case though, regardless of BPs and location-fails, but I guess we'll find out tonight.

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without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

Alright alright, don't get your panties in a bunch, jeez. It was already fairly obvious which areas were adjacent anyway. It was clearly stated Shang Yong was in the center, and everything else was adjacent. Not tough to figure out. I think what the others are saying is suspicious is not that you're getting involved but that you made a special point to say 'I was being helpful!' I don't think it was fishy so much as you were insulted that I was so dismissive of your reasoning, but anyway.


EDIT - changed last sentence to better reflect meaning

First, there's no way every faction has a killer unless it's 5-5-4. If you have a 3-7-4 split or something like that, guess which faction will win if they all have killers (hint: it's the big one). Even with that, I doubt there are killers in all 3 factions.

Well, duh. You'll notice I actually said I find Yuan Shao only having killers being more likely, but if it's 5-5-4 (and I think it is), it's definitely possible.

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Second, we have a lot of people badgering Rashan for what I also happen to think is poor reasoning. And here you are backing off as soon as he gets angry. *That* is suspicious to me.

That's hardly backing off, Galain. I just told him not to get so worked up, and pointed out to him that what he brought about was clearly recognisable to those with a little bit of reading comprehension. Maybe not characters in minor cities actually being in the closest major one, but the rest was fairly stock standard. I didn't find his 'I'm helpful!' thing all that scummy either, so what else was I supposed to say? I feel like you're grasping at straws there.

[Korabas]

Please, can we please stop about the scum/ town thing here? No such thing. This is a faction game.
In the words of D'rek:


This is a 2-sided town-less,

scum-less game.

Now, if there are two sides and one side is made out of 2 factions, guess which faction is the big one?

So you may not like Ruse's suggestions or the way he parrotted me (as pleasing as it is to be paraphrased/echoed, that was some serious fake symping), but with the above in mind plus the other reasons I gave a few posts up, there is no need to get into a huff because you don't like what he is saying on faction sizes, because it is a viable possibility.

If you dislike the way he came after Rashan, fair enough, but you have to admit that he kind of broadcast that he is being a little bit... lost.
For now, I think Galain is talking some sensible stuff.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 01 December 2010 - 06:01 PM

[Korabas]

Korabas, on 01 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Please, can we please stop about the scum/ town thing here? No such thing. This is a faction game.
In the words of D'rek:


This is a 2-sided town-less, scum-less game.

Now, if there are two sides and one side is made out of 2 factions, guess which faction is the big one?

It is the third faction that makes up a side all by itself.

Yes, I like being a dick.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 7 hours and 31 minutes remaining
14 Players still alive: Emurlahn, Galain, Kessobahn, Korabas, Liosan, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Liosan ( Galain )
1 Vote for Ruse ( Serc )

Players not voted: Emurlahn, Kessobahn, Korabas, Liosan, Merrid, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Silchas Ruin, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

---

I may not be back on until about the end of day, so if there's an early lynch you may have to wait a wee bit.

[Korabas]

Mockra, on 30 November 2010 - 08:49 PM, said:

I was actually thinking the map was less useful (more flavour) than the explanation.....

Hai guys.

If we're going to off the useless people first, as Galain is proposing, I find this to be Mockra's only post, page one, fifth post of the game, 24.5 hours ago or so. So, for now


Vote Mockra.

[Omtose]

I found Rashan's "I'm being helpful" remark not so much suspicious as just poorly said. It's pretty much a given that posts we make are trying to be helpful, even if they do end up stating the obvious (like I am right now). Then again, I find I'm more reserved when I point out people's actions as suspicious, since at this point in the game most, if not all, of us don't know who else is in our faction.

I'm fine with voting Mockra. I'm willing to change the vote if he comes back on and steps up his game, but as Korabas has pointed out he hasn't contributed anything so far.

Vote Mockra

EDIT: Changed Galain to Korabas

This post has been edited by Omtose: 01 December 2010 - 06:35 PM

[Tiamatha]

Right just considering the map, it obvious not every single player could move cause they move to the central town which is adjacent to the three remaining towns and wipe out the point of the map.

So there has to be some players that are stationary, but the best thing to happen is for every player who can move to move to the central town, thus ensuring a higgher success rate of NA.

Cause the Yuan Shau killers are going to do that to give them the ability be able to kill anyone with their NA. What the point of sitting in a satelite town if it reduces the chance of a successful night action before other night action are considered if you have the ability to move.

If you have the ability to move then it best to move to the central town and then increase the chance of a successful NA.

[Omtose]

Moving to the center also increases your risk of being targeted, Tiamatha. Moving to the center is a gamble; your night actions are sure to go through, but if someone who's playing it safe on the edges has targeted you, you may very well be in for a treat. After some more consideration, I think there’s actually a good chance that every faction has a killer. I mean, consider this: Unless operations can get rid of killers, then all a YS killer would have to do is move into the center of the map and every kill will go through, assuming that their target isn’t someone who’s being healed/has BP. If everyone has a killer, it makes things a little more tactical; you can still run the risk and go to the middle, but it’s opening you up for the other killers to target you as well, assuming they’re in one of the other three cities.

[Omtose]

Of course, YS could certainly be the only faction with a killer if your theory about some people being stationary is correct. If so, who do we think would be stationary? Operation master, or the ruler if they're not one and the same, seems the most likely to me.

[Omtose]

Woohoo, posting spree.

Do we think the result of an operation differs depending on which location on the map you're at? If so, that'd rule out them being immobile, assuming we have immobiles.

[Serc]

Tiamatha, on 01 December 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

Right just considering the map, it obvious not every single player could move cause they move to the central town which is adjacent to the three remaining towns and wipe out the point of the map.

So there has to be some players that are stationary, but the best thing to happen is for every player who can move to move to the central town, thus ensuring a higgher success rate of NA.

Cause the Yuan Shau killers are going to do that to give them the ability be able to kill anyone with their NA. What the point of sitting in a satelite town if it reduces the chance of a successful night action before other night action are considered if you have the ability to move.

If you have the ability to move then it best to move to the central town and then increase the chance of a successful NA.

It also highly increases your chances of getting killed, guarded, or whatever. Unless you're a big enough role for your healer, if you even have one, to know who you are and to decide to heal you, moving to the centre en-masse is a bad idea as you are now a target for absolutely anyone. It's a double-edged sword, and while you've got a 100% chance of hitting someone, any of the other 13 players might also decide to target you. This isn't a town/scum game, either, there's no guarantee that the Yuan Shau guys have all got killing powers. And we haven't factored in the mysterious Operations yet.
Then again, I might be being too cautious.

[Korabas]

Omtose, on 01 December 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Woohoo, posting spree.

Do we think the result of an operation differs depending on which location on the map you're at? If so, that'd rule out them being immobile, assuming we have immobiles.

Quote

Each side is planning a coordinated mass attack, called an Operation. Each side has an Operations Master who can, on any night in the game, launch their side's Operation. Each side's Operation has unique effects, which can be improved prior to the launch of the Operation. Some effects are lasting, others are not. If the Operations Master is killed and the Operation has not yet been launched, it is launched immediately.

No. It is my impression the Operation Masters can unleash them whenever they like or when they die. I expect them to have a temporary effect and a few lasting ones (kills, bps, etc). The OP said they could be improved. I think the Operation is improved when certain parameters are met, like having a majority as a side, or waiting X nights, but who knows?

What is important to note is that each SIDE has an operation master, according to the OP, not every FACTION.

That as a result means either Zhang or Zhong's faction has no Operation (contrary to what I assumed earlier, apparently, I can't read either).
It is certain that YS has one, though.

[Serc]

Omtose, on 01 December 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Do we think the result of an operation differs depending on which location on the map you're at? If so, that'd rule out them being immobile, assuming we have immobiles.

Maybe; it'd certainly lend more to the board mechanic.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if your Operation changes depending on who's left in your team.

[Serc]

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the character of Zhuge Liang in the Romance of The Three Kingdoms, but he was basically a Chancellor, scholar and master tactician, who went about winning all these battles and accomplishing these crazy feats. I would imagine that he's the kind of character who will be the Operations Master, not the leaders themselves. A sort of second-in-command type who's a heavier hitter than the leader and is able to communicate with them.

[Korabas]

Omtose, on 01 December 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Of course, YS could certainly be the only faction with a killer if your theory about some people being stationary is correct. If so, who do we think would be stationary? Operation master, or the ruler if they're not one and the same, seems the most likely to me.

I highly doubt this. The game is about three factions coming together for a battle. It would be weird if the attacking force and the force coming to the rescue can't let their generals/strategists move... Maybe the defending guy Zhong is stationary, but if so, I expect him to start in the middle location anyway which means he's both vulnerable and capable of targeting anyone.

Rather, I expect Operations might target locations, or maybe people in them. Which would make it a very bad idea to jump all on the central one, especially if one or both operations have a negative effect (and D'rek described them as massive offensives).

[Omtose]

Korabas, on 01 December 2010 - 07:48 PM, said:

What is important to note is that each SIDE has an operation master, according to the OP, not every FACTION.

This is a great point, something that passed by me. Unless YS has an insanely good operation, it makes sense that there are only two.

Interesting theory on the operations master, Serc. Honesly, I could see it going either way, but the fact that the guy you're mentioning (not familiar with Rot3K) certainly lends your idea some validity.

[Galain]

Korabas, on 01 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Please, can we please stop about the scum/ town thing here? No such thing. This is a faction game.
In the words of D'rek:


This is a 2-sided town-less, scum-less game.

Now, if there are two sides and one side is made out of 2 factions, guess which faction is the big one?

So you may not like Ruse's suggestions or the way he parrotted me (as pleasing as it is to be paraphrased/echoed, that was some serious fake symping), but with the above in mind plus the other reasons I gave a few posts up, there is no need to get into a huff because you don't like what he is saying on faction sizes, because it is a viable possibility.

If you dislike the way he came after Rashan, fair enough, but you have to admit that he kind of broadcast that he is being a little bit... lost.
For now, I think Galain is talking some sensible stuff.

So you're basically saying that the majority are actually in Yuan Shao's faction. That's interesting. Hopefully you still think i'm talking sensible =p

[Galain]

Serc, on 01 December 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 01 December 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

Right just considering the map, it obvious not every single player could move cause they move to the central town which is adjacent to the three remaining towns and wipe out the point of the map.

So there has to be some players that are stationary, but the best thing to happen is for every player who can move to move to the central town, thus ensuring a higgher success rate of NA.

Cause the Yuan Shau killers are going to do that to give them the ability be able to kill anyone with their NA. What the point of sitting in a satelite town if it reduces the chance of a successful night action before other night action are considered if you have the ability to move.

If you have the ability to move then it best to move to the central town and then increase the chance of a successful NA.

It also highly increases your chances of getting killed, guarded, or whatever. Unless you're a big enough role for your healer, if you even have one, to know who you are and to decide to heal you, moving to the centre en-masse is a bad idea as you are now a target for absolutely anyone. It's a double-edged sword, and while you've got a 100% chance of hitting someone, any of the other 13 players might also decide to target you. This isn't a town/scum game, either, there's no guarantee that the Yuan Shau guys have all got killing powers. And we haven't factored in the mysterious Operations yet.
Then again, I might be being too cautious.

Well FWIW, I think the center strategy is actually a pretty good one. The "hide in the side town" strategy only works if the guy targeting you is in another side town. If the guy targeting you is in the middle, then you are vulnerable, whether or not you are hiding. If the "scum"--and I still use that term loosely--do move to the middle as Tia suggested, then hiding only decreases your own effectiveness, not your attacker's.

[Galain]

Omtose, on 01 December 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

Woohoo, posting spree.

Do we think the result of an operation differs depending on which location on the map you're at? If so, that'd rule out them being immobile, assuming we have immobiles.

Yes, I think this. Most likely, night actions leading up to the Operation that can "improve" it will either be some kind of preparation actions. Alternatively, it's quite feasible that the more spread out the faction, the better the operation... or maybe the more clumped up, the better, etc.

[Galain]

Also, Mockra's just as useless as Liosan, and I hate non-lynches. Just pick one and cut em loose.

Remove Vote
Vote Mockra