[Rashan]

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

[Omtose]

I'm not sure. I can see everyone having a killer, or only Yuan Shao. Since it's up in the air - especially at this point in the game - as to who's in your faction, if each one does has a killer they'll have to play it safe. The real kicker is that it's going to be difficult to determine whether or not everyone actually has a killer, since there are so many factors in this game that could lead to a kill not going through.

[Korabas]

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

We did know that already. From the OP. The fact D'rek chose to specify was merely a side-effect of a crazily convoluted theory you had, and possibly intended to prevent all of you running of into the country of impossible theories and drugs-induced dreams.
I mean, seriously, hidden locations? Ever considered what that would mean not only to night actions, but also to movement, which might a big part of the game, keeping half an eye on the secondary victory conditions?

You seem very eager to beat your own chest and declare yourself useful to all of us. Which is suspicious as hell.

[Rashan]

Korabas, on 01 December 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

We did know that already. From the OP. The fact D'rek chose to specify was merely a side-effect of a crazily convoluted theory you had, and possibly intended to prevent all of you running of into the country of impossible theories and drugs-induced dreams.
I mean, seriously, hidden locations? Ever considered what that would mean not only to night actions, but also to movement, which might a big part of the game, keeping half an eye on the secondary victory conditions?

You seem very eager to beat your own chest and declare yourself useful to all of us. Which is suspicious as hell.

clutching at straws there. You may have understood the locations and how they look but other than Galains helpful diagram I wouldn't have understood this as clearly until D'rek specified. I don't think I am the only one..

"Ever considered what that would mean not only to night actions, but also to movement, which might a big part of the game, keeping half an eye on the secondary victory conditions?" no, i haven't. how would it affect them? you can move if you choose to or you can stay where you are, i am not going to try and second guess every bodies movement as there would be no point, not yet anyway.

The main focus should not be the secondary win conditions, the main focus should be YS team. The secondary are only for "bragging" rights!

[Ruse]

Well after reading through all of that. I have to say when I read the OP I thought that it was pretty clear where the various areas were. So I have no idea how so many of the rest of you became so confused about locations. Based on the previous games I think that a 5 5 4 split is pretty reasonable. D'rek likes balanced games. Since this is an alternate history I wouldn't put a lot of stock into trying to figure out what names are on who's team.

I agree with Korabas that Rashan's post about his own helpfulness is suspicious as hell.

[Omtose]

Alright, I'm off for a bit, should be back in a few hours. Try not to rip each others' heads off while I'm away.

[Rashan]

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

Well after reading through all of that. I have to say when I read the OP I thought that it was pretty clear where the various areas were. So I have no idea how so many of the rest of you became so confused about locations. Based on the previous games I think that a 5 5 4 split is pretty reasonable. D'rek likes balanced games. Since this is an alternate history I wouldn't put a lot of stock into trying to figure out what names are on who's team.

I agree with Korabas that Rashan's post about his own helpfulness is suspicious as hell.

well i will disagree with you and your buddy Korabas then Ruse. I don't see how i am being suspicious by getting involved and trying to help or is this why it is suspicious? should i be a low poster? should i come on like you just did after watching for a while and make a couple of sentences agreeing with someone.. your post is more suspicious to me for that reason, at least Korabas had his own point of view and said some good things earlier in the thread

[Merrid]

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

How should I know? It's anyone's guess at this stage. I would definitely expect each team to have at least one vig though, and although I think Yuan Shao only being more likely, I can probably see each faction having a killer, . This game will rack up some bodies quickly if that's the case though, regardless of BPs and location-fails, but I guess we'll find out tonight.

Quote

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

Alright alright, don't get your panties in a bunch, jeez. It was already fairly obvious which areas were adjacent anyway. It was clearly stated Shang Yong was in the center, and everything else was adjacent. Not tough to figure out. I think what the others are saying is suspicious is not that you're getting involved but that you made a special point to say 'I was being helpful!' I don't think it was fishy so much as you were insulted that I was so dismissive of your reasoning, but anyway.


EDIT - changed last sentence to better reflect meaning

This post has been edited by Merrid: 01 December 2010 - 03:51 PM

[Ruse]

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

Well after reading through all of that. I have to say when I read the OP I thought that it was pretty clear where the various areas were. So I have no idea how so many of the rest of you became so confused about locations. Based on the previous games I think that a 5 5 4 split is pretty reasonable. D'rek likes balanced games. Since this is an alternate history I wouldn't put a lot of stock into trying to figure out what names are on who's team.

I agree with Korabas that Rashan's post about his own helpfulness is suspicious as hell.

well i will disagree with you and your buddy Korabas then Ruse. I don't see how i am being suspicious by getting involved and trying to help or is this why it is suspicious? should i be a low poster? should i come on like you just did after watching for a while and make a couple of sentences agreeing with someone.. your post is more suspicious to me for that reason, at least Korabas had his own point of view and said some good things earlier in the thread

Sorry if I have finally had a minute to catch up on what everyone has been saying on thread. Gosh wouldn't want to sound like everyone else.

You are suspicious not for getting involved. But for then tooting your own horn and basically saying "Hey look at me I am a good inno helping everyone, Aren't I great." That is suspicious to me. The whole getting involved bit is fine. It is the I am a super good inno bit that I find suspicious. Because the only people who feel the need to come out and say that they are a super good inno and helping the team are scum.

That is the only thing that I agree with Korabas about. He isn't my buddy any more then you are.

[Rashan]

Merrid, on 01 December 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

How should I know? It's anyone's guess at this stage. I would definitely expect each team to have at least one vig though, and although I think Yuan Shao only being more likely, I can probably see each faction having a killer, . This game will rack up some bodies quickly if that's the case though, regardless of BPs and location-fails, but I guess we'll find out tonight.

Quote

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

Alright alright, don't get your panties in a bunch, jeez. It was already fairly obvious which areas were adjacent anyway. It was clearly stated Shang Yong was in the center, and everything else was adjacent. Not tough to figure out. I think what the others are saying is suspicious is not that you're getting involved but that you made a special point to say 'I was being helpful!' I don't think it was fishy so much as you were insulted that I was so dismissive of your reasoning, but anyway.


EDIT - changed last sentence to better reflect meaning

well yes. I agree with that, i wanted you to agree ha ha, i sometimes come up with good ideas and sometimes bad ones. the point is i come up with them, some may be absurd and others you may laugh at but i will every now and then hit the nail on the head

[Rashan]

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

Well after reading through all of that. I have to say when I read the OP I thought that it was pretty clear where the various areas were. So I have no idea how so many of the rest of you became so confused about locations. Based on the previous games I think that a 5 5 4 split is pretty reasonable. D'rek likes balanced games. Since this is an alternate history I wouldn't put a lot of stock into trying to figure out what names are on who's team.

I agree with Korabas that Rashan's post about his own helpfulness is suspicious as hell.

well i will disagree with you and your buddy Korabas then Ruse. I don't see how i am being suspicious by getting involved and trying to help or is this why it is suspicious? should i be a low poster? should i come on like you just did after watching for a while and make a couple of sentences agreeing with someone.. your post is more suspicious to me for that reason, at least Korabas had his own point of view and said some good things earlier in the thread

Sorry if I have finally had a minute to catch up on what everyone has been saying on thread. Gosh wouldn't want to sound like everyone else.

You are suspicious not for getting involved. But for then tooting your own horn and basically saying "Hey look at me I am a good inno helping everyone, Aren't I great." That is suspicious to me. The whole getting involved bit is fine. It is the I am a super good inno bit that I find suspicious. Because the only people who feel the need to come out and say that they are a super good inno and helping the team are scum.

That is the only thing that I agree with Korabas about. He isn't my buddy any more then you are.

you're saying we're not friends? Ruse this hurts..

yeah I see your point but again the good scum players would rather point this out and sit back to watch everyone get on the persons back. At the moment there isn't much to go on so I can see why you would agree with Korabas but I was just pointing out that i am trying to help and that was that.

[Rashan]

I am on for around 30 minutes now and then hoepfully be back on in 4 or 5 hours.

[Rashan]

it'd be good to here from Tulas and Mockra and see their thoughts on things so far

[Korabas]

I find it somewhat amusing that everyone goes and assumes YS has the scum/killer faction, and the other two combined are town.

First, he has a gazillion men. Sounds like town, not scum, but OK, I'll accept that is a very weak argument.

Then, his VC is not massively different from the other two:

Quote

Victory Conditions:

Yuan Shao's force's win when they've eliminated all other players.

There, easy as pie. Kill everyone.

Quote

Huang Zhong's forces win when Yuan Shao's forces are completely defeated as long as any Huang Zhong player is still alive at the end of the game.
Secondary Objective: Either be the only faction with players remaining in Jiang Ling at the end of the game, OR have surviving players in both Shang Yong and Jiang Ling at the end of the game.


Zhang Xiu's forces win when Yuan Shao's forces are completely defeated.
Secondary Objective: Have surviving players in both Shang Yong and Jiang Ling at the end of the game.

See, YS has to eliminate the other two factions entirely and does not even get what others refer to as bragging rights.
Yes, that might point at a killer role and serious action disparity in his favor. However, replace 'all other players' with 'scum' and you arrive at the classic town VC.

Moreover, every faction has an Operations master. This seems to suggest that YS is outmatched in that area 2:1, so even if his is a conditional multi-kill or somesuch where the other two are finds, guards, vote boosts, bps or heals (to stick to traditional stuff instead of the ME Mafia Madness that D'rek can unleash... like healing catapults?) the others still have, combined, a better chance of achieving success through it, especially if theirs negates his.

Finally, seems to me that the other two factions having to have people in certain locations as a bonus is considered a mean feat and not something easy to achieve. Having superiority in numbers would just mean that they'd flock to the named provinces and hope they eliminate all of YS through lynch before his faction takes all of them out.

It can't be that easy, hence my personal theory that the two combined only narrowly outnumber the YS faction, or are even at a disadvantage.
I kind of agree with Ruse's assessment of 5-5-4 as both a useful and a D'rek-like set-up, but I would not be surprised at all if the split is 6-4-4, 7-4-3 or 8-3-3 in YS favor.
As such, those of you (there have been one or two so far) who seem to broadcast themselves as inno and YS as scum, well, either you are lying through your teeth, or you took a major risk.

EDIT: removed snide underscript remark.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 01 December 2010 - 05:22 PM

[Galain]

Liosan, on 01 December 2010 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hmmm, i feel like the numbers have to be kind of closely balanced because actions blow in this game, there's a 1 out of 4 chance it will work on the person your doing it to.

Once again we have someone completely uninterested in reading the rules or even one of the 10-20 or so posts about Night Action resolution discussion. If you're in the middle town, it's 100% (pending guards). If you're in a side town, it's 50%.

Vote Liosan

For being a low posting, useless lump of coal.

[Galain]

Merrid, on 01 December 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the location of a player doesn't affect our ability to lynch them, so unless you're talking about failed NAs (and I don't know why you would be) where they are is really irrelevant for the purposes of 'getting them' unless you are a killer or vig. Besides, PS has already stated that the locations refer to general vicinities, and I don't see how an extra location that could only affect one city is at all helpful to anyone unless they are going to be targeted a lot, but BPs address that problem in the same way without hampering effectiveness so there's no need for the mechanic.

As for speculation, I'm not sure how much stock we can place in the names. But it's a good start, and Emurlahn has pretty much written out what I have, so I'll go by it until we're proved otherwise.

EDIT - added 'but' and 'so'

how many killers are there? this is what we are trying to work out. does every team have a killer or is it only YS's team?

How should I know? It's anyone's guess at this stage. I would definitely expect each team to have at least one vig though, and although I think Yuan Shao only being more likely, I can probably see each faction having a killer, . This game will rack up some bodies quickly if that's the case though, regardless of BPs and location-fails, but I guess we'll find out tonight.

Quote

without me mentioning the additional locations we would not have had the extra map with circles noting what each area constitutes. therefore my post was helpful as we now know how areas work!

Alright alright, don't get your panties in a bunch, jeez. It was already fairly obvious which areas were adjacent anyway. It was clearly stated Shang Yong was in the center, and everything else was adjacent. Not tough to figure out. I think what the others are saying is suspicious is not that you're getting involved but that you made a special point to say 'I was being helpful!' I don't think it was fishy so much as you were insulted that I was so dismissive of your reasoning, but anyway.


EDIT - changed last sentence to better reflect meaning

First, there's no way every faction has a killer unless it's 5-5-4. If you have a 3-7-4 split or something like that, guess which faction will win if they all have killers (hint: it's the big one). Even with that, I doubt there are killers in all 3 factions.

Second, we have a lot of people badgering Rashan for what I also happen to think is poor reasoning. And here you are backing off as soon as he gets angry. *That* is suspicious to me.

[Rashan]

i felt that was an odd comment, but just skipped past it because it was short and didn't have much to offer. i thought it odd because of the same reason as Galain

[Rashan]

leaving work now, i will try and get on later on. 3-4 hours.

[Galain]

Also, I really think it's a catastrophe to not have a lynch today... I like Liosan the most because he's offering nothing to the game. Rashan's at least talking and offering theories.

[Serc]

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

Rashan, on 01 December 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ruse, on 01 December 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

Well after reading through all of that. I have to say when I read the OP I thought that it was pretty clear where the various areas were. So I have no idea how so many of the rest of you became so confused about locations. Based on the previous games I think that a 5 5 4 split is pretty reasonable. D'rek likes balanced games. Since this is an alternate history I wouldn't put a lot of stock into trying to figure out what names are on who's team.

I agree with Korabas that Rashan's post about his own helpfulness is suspicious as hell.

well i will disagree with you and your buddy Korabas then Ruse. I don't see how i am being suspicious by getting involved and trying to help or is this why it is suspicious? should i be a low poster? should i come on like you just did after watching for a while and make a couple of sentences agreeing with someone.. your post is more suspicious to me for that reason, at least Korabas had his own point of view and said some good things earlier in the thread

Sorry if I have finally had a minute to catch up on what everyone has been saying on thread. Gosh wouldn't want to sound like everyone else.

You are suspicious not for getting involved. But for then tooting your own horn and basically saying "Hey look at me I am a good inno helping everyone, Aren't I great." That is suspicious to me. The whole getting involved bit is fine. It is the I am a super good inno bit that I find suspicious. Because the only people who feel the need to come out and say that they are a super good inno and helping the team are scum.

That is the only thing that I agree with Korabas about. He isn't my buddy any more then you are.

Vote Ruse
Rashan is right. I don't agree with the way you've suddenly jumped in on the offensive, and the way you're trying to distance yourself from Korabas, not to mention the inno/scum divisions here. Your implication that Rashan's behaviours are "scummy" are clearly an appeal to emotion, and anyone who's appealing to emotion without a valid case backed up by logic strikes me as a danger.
Also, I agree with the idea of lynching someone today.