[Garak]

The Star Wars Atlast claims that Satine's group of hippies were overthrown by Fenn Shysa and the True Mandalorians.

Also yes, Legacy is badass. But I will never be able to choose between it and KotOR.

[QuickTidal]

Garak, on 25 November 2010 - 09:01 AM, said:

The Star Wars Atlast claims that Satine's group of hippies were overthrown by Fenn Shysa and the True Mandalorians.

Also yes, Legacy is badass. But I will never be able to choose between it and KotOR.

Agreed. There is just something about KotOR that makes it so cool.

[McLovin]

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Agreed. There is just something about KotOR that makes it so cool.

Zayne Carrick was kinda meh IMO. I also didn't like that they had to create a red anti-Jarael so they could have a catfight.

[QuickTidal]

McLovin, on 25 November 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

Agreed. There is just something about KotOR that makes it so cool.

Zayne Carrick was kinda meh IMO. I also didn't like that they had to create a red anti-Jarael so they could have a catfight.

But WHAT a catfight! Yum!

[RedFox]

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.

If I was being close minded would I still be watching? I'm simply saying that these peaceful Mandalorians piss me off. That and the domed cities seem out of place from what was already known about Mandalore. For the record I agree that the writing staff is very good at what they do. The only problem I see with the series is that the Separatists never seem to win a battle. But the reason for that is probably because most of the audience is young and still believes in the whole "Good always wins" thing.

[QuickTidal]

RedFox, on 25 November 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.

If I was being close minded would I still be watching? I'm simply saying that these peaceful Mandalorians piss me off. That and the domed cities seem out of place from what was already known about Mandalore. For the record I agree that the writing staff is very good at what they do. The only problem I see with the series is that the Separatists never seem to win a battle. But the reason for that is probably because most of the audience is young and still believes in the whole "Good always wins" thing.

Whether you watch still or not is irrelevant in this.

I was refuting the statement about "have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars." and saying that if you give them half a chance, it is very likely that the Mando's you are talking about will show up....LOL. Easy tiger. I meant no offense.

[Tsundoku]

Oh noes! Is this a sign of the changing times?

------------------------

http://www.news.com....0-1225961287176

Original Darth Vader costume fails to sell at auction

* From correspondents in London
* From: AP
* November 25, 2010 5:09AM

AUCTIONEERS overestimated the power of the dark side.

An original Darth Vader costume from a Star Wars movie did not sell at auction overnight when no bidder offered to pay the reserve price, Christie's auctioneers said.

The outfit — a jet-black helmet, mask and armor —was expected to sell for between £160,000 and £230,000 ($257,028 and $369,477).

The reserve price is confidential but generally it is just under the minimum expected price.

Christie's said bidding stopped at £150,000 ($240,963).

The costume is thought to have been made for The Empire Strikes Back, the second film in George Lucas's sci-fi series, released in 1980.

The auction house's head of popular culture, Neil Roberts, said the costume was one of the most iconic in the history of cinema.

Christie's did not name the seller, identified only as an American private collector.

----------------------------

Check out some of the comments here:

http://www.news.com....0-1225961287176

My favorites so far are

I find your lack of bids disturbing.
What happened to thy bidding, my master...??
These are not the bids you are looking for

[QuickTidal]

Sombra, on 26 November 2010 - 03:21 PM, said:

Oh noes! Is this a sign of the changing times?

------------------------

http://www.news.com....0-1225961287176

Original Darth Vader costume fails to sell at auction

* From correspondents in London
* From: AP
* November 25, 2010 5:09AM

AUCTIONEERS overestimated the power of the dark side.

An original Darth Vader costume from a Star Wars movie did not sell at auction overnight when no bidder offered to pay the reserve price, Christie's auctioneers said.

The outfit — a jet-black helmet, mask and armor —was expected to sell for between £160,000 and £230,000 ($257,028 and $369,477).

The reserve price is confidential but generally it is just under the minimum expected price.

Christie's said bidding stopped at £150,000 ($240,963).

The costume is thought to have been made for The Empire Strikes Back, the second film in George Lucas's sci-fi series, released in 1980.

The auction house's head of popular culture, Neil Roberts, said the costume was one of the most iconic in the history of cinema.

Christie's did not name the seller, identified only as an American private collector.

----------------------------

Check out some of the comments here:

http://www.news.com....0-1225961287176

My favorites so far are

I find your lack of bids disturbing.
What happened to thy bidding, my master...??
These are not the bids you are looking for

Haha! Some of those comments are great!

That's a cool piece of movie memorabilia and all, but there is no way it's worth 160,000 pounds (that's like $300,000). Ridiculous really. It's worth like $50,000 maybe....maybe.

[Abyss]

I want that suit.
Intact. No disintegrations.

[RedFox]

QuickTidal, on 26 November 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

RedFox, on 25 November 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.

If I was being close minded would I still be watching? I'm simply saying that these peaceful Mandalorians piss me off. That and the domed cities seem out of place from what was already known about Mandalore. For the record I agree that the writing staff is very good at what they do. The only problem I see with the series is that the Separatists never seem to win a battle. But the reason for that is probably because most of the audience is young and still believes in the whole "Good always wins" thing.

Whether you watch still or not is irrelevant in this.

I was refuting the statement about "have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars." and saying that if you give them half a chance, it is very likely that the Mando's you are talking about will show up....LOL. Easy tiger. I meant no offense.

Ok. I might have spoken a little strongly. I didn't mean that I thought the writers had turned ALL of the Mandalorians into a bunch of neutral pansies, although I see how my statement seemed like I did think that. I just meant that these neutral Mandalorians don't seem all that plausible considering the history of Mandalore and that I find them really frustrating.

[Darkwatch]

Wow.

[Illuyankas]

RedFox, on 26 November 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 November 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

RedFox, on 25 November 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.

If I was being close minded would I still be watching? I'm simply saying that these peaceful Mandalorians piss me off. That and the domed cities seem out of place from what was already known about Mandalore. For the record I agree that the writing staff is very good at what they do. The only problem I see with the series is that the Separatists never seem to win a battle. But the reason for that is probably because most of the audience is young and still believes in the whole "Good always wins" thing.

Whether you watch still or not is irrelevant in this.

I was refuting the statement about "have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars." and saying that if you give them half a chance, it is very likely that the Mando's you are talking about will show up....LOL. Easy tiger. I meant no offense.

Ok. I might have spoken a little strongly. I didn't mean that I thought the writers had turned ALL of the Mandalorians into a bunch of neutral pansies, although I see how my statement seemed like I did think that. I just meant that these neutral Mandalorians don't seem all that plausible considering the history of Mandalore and that I find them really frustrating.

M-M-M-MONSTER NERDS

[QuickTidal]

RedFox, on 26 November 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 November 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

RedFox, on 25 November 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 November 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.

If I was being close minded would I still be watching? I'm simply saying that these peaceful Mandalorians piss me off. That and the domed cities seem out of place from what was already known about Mandalore. For the record I agree that the writing staff is very good at what they do. The only problem I see with the series is that the Separatists never seem to win a battle. But the reason for that is probably because most of the audience is young and still believes in the whole "Good always wins" thing.

Whether you watch still or not is irrelevant in this.

I was refuting the statement about "have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars." and saying that if you give them half a chance, it is very likely that the Mando's you are talking about will show up....LOL. Easy tiger. I meant no offense.

Ok. I might have spoken a little strongly. I didn't mean that I thought the writers had turned ALL of the Mandalorians into a bunch of neutral pansies, although I see how my statement seemed like I did think that. I just meant that these neutral Mandalorians don't seem all that plausible considering the history of Mandalore and that I find them really frustrating.

Ah, well on that we can agree!

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Jesus, you guys need to stop quoting the massive blocks of text back and forth. It's making the thread hard to read.

[EsotericForest]

I like Star Wars, probably because I grew up with it. But what I find amusing is that I absolutely despise other movies that have aliens in them. I've never read any of the books, or comics either. The newer Star Wars movies are better just because they're easier to believe with the special effects. The whine of the main actors is an annoying habit though.

[WhoDat DRoC]

Amen Clockwork. I'm an all around sci fi fan and I couldn't agree more about SW original series fans. They physically can't admit to how bad the movies look, and are. I have a friend who won't even admit the new trilogy looks better ( as far as cgi and effects) but then this same dude says 2001 is the worst movie ever made. That to me sums up the attitude of all original series die hard fans. excellent article...keep writing,I'm reading.

[HoosierDaddy]

I'll admit the newer movies look better. How could they NOT look better?

So... streak broken?

However, no amount of CGI and special effects are going to make the Battle of Naboo cooler than the Battle of Endor. However, the Battle of Coruscant, and it been given the length of Endor, would have been close. Endor > Naboo but lesser than the Jedi battle at the end of Clones, but only prior to the entry of the Clones, where it falls far behind Hoth.

I've come to believe the major difference between the prequels and original that make the biggest difference are:

1. Harrison Ford as Han Solo owns every other character in every other movie.
2. Darth Vader is way fucking cooler as a concept than emo Anakin, and it would have taken an Oscar worthy performance to make Ani into a better character than Vader.

[Yellow]

3. Substitution of CGI for script.

[Aptorian]

http://www.reddit.co..._stormtroopers/

Quote

Regarding the accuracy of StormtroopersStormtrooper accuracy is something of a joke on the internet. They never seem to hit any important person when they shoot at them, missing constantly. There's a Cracked article on it, for god's sake. Everyone has heard the joke.

It's a complete and total lie, and it ignores the relevant details of the events.

To prove that they are, in fact, crack shots, watch the opening sequence in A New Hope. Here we have a number of stormtroopers charging into a narrow breach into heavy fire, yet they are able to gun down more rebel soldiers in cover than they take in casualties! This is not amateur night here--this is stone cold killers, destroying their foes mercilessly. They are so effective that the defenders fall back almost immediately.

Then, the next time their accuracy is mentioned, it is in the examination of the corpses of a bunch of child-sized aliens. That's right, they were able to kill a number of small targets with expert precision. Now, it was off-screen, but you cannot get that kind of consistency and precision randomly. It beggars the imagination to think that their aim is terrible.

So why can they never hit Luke and Leia in the Death Star? They were ordered not to. The escape was allowed--recall that Tarkin and Vader discussed exactly that the minute the Falcon left. They needed the princess to go to the hidden fortress so they could track them there. She already had refused to give them accurate coordinates, even as her homeworld was destroyed before her eyes. She would never break, never talk. So she had to escape.

Now, killing the one guy escorting her to the ship, or any of the vital crew to the small craft, would be counter-productive to that enterprise. But, they have to make it look good. The escape triggered an alarm. Even if it hadn't (highly unlikely--they command was far too competent at their jobs to let anything slip through), Vader knew that an escape was on--he felt the presence of Obi-wan. Vader is quite competent, and so would have certainly alerted command to this. After all, he did have a discussion about it with Tarkin before seeking out Obi-wan.

The only reasonable conclusion then is that the stormtroopers, fanatically loyal and dedicated to the cause, were ordered to attack but miss when doggedly pursuing these escaping prisoners. And, miss by a small enough margin that it looks good. Recall the bridge scene--blaster fire was erupting around the edges of the doorframe that they were standing on--inches from serious harm. Yet, despite that large volume of fire, in single-shot mode, no hits were scored. And well it was that none did! Had a single shot hit the princess, it could have killed her. It could have wounded her severely enough that escaping with her would have been implausible, and they would have instantly been alerted to the fact that it was a set-up.

It nearly was--Leia thought it too easy. However, any hit would have made it obvious if they did escape, since even if it wasn't lethal, it would have dramatically slowed the party down, destroying any illusion.

As such, from A New Hope, all evidence is that they are, in fact, excellent shots and quite loyal, willing to die for the cause without a moment's hesitation on the order of Lord Vader.

One could argue, terribly, that it is simply the quality of the weapon that is a problem. That is patently absurd. The Empire has the resources to build a space station the size of a small moon without being noticed. It wasn't public knowledge that the Death Star was built--it came from nowhere and blew up a planet. No one believed that possible until it happened, which was the point.

This means that they have a logistical train that routinely delivers massive amounts of material across the galaxy, such that it draws little real attention. This cannot be cheap--the cost of transport alone would be immense. But they are somehow buying weapons on the cheap? That makes no sense. They'd make sure that these things were very accurate, and consistent, before the purchase of every lot. Their quartermaster corps would see to that, and they must be sufficiently competent to do so because they were able to build a moon in secret. That's no mean task. So their weapons must be accurate.

Ignoring that, it still remains the fact that recently looted weapons, from the very racks that these stormtroopers drew from, were quite accurate in the hands of other people who just picked them up and had not drilled extensively on them. These must be accurate weapons indeed, or the Hand of God Himself intervenes upon every shot ensuring the safety of the heroes and the death of the villains.

Now, consider Empire Strikes Back. We see very little of the battle of Hoth, but we do see them rapidly assembling a heavy weapon even as they take automatic weapon fire, without a moment's hesitation. That requires immense discipline and skill. This goes, again, to demonstrating their intense competency. You do not acquire such coolness under fire without intense and rigorous training. Are we then to believe that they train to just set weapons up, but not fire them accurately? Please.

So, on Cloud City, we again see a large contingent of stormtroopers not hitting the escaping princess and retinue. Again, this is clearly by design. Darth Vader had the hyperdrive disabled--he asked his subordinates this on his command ship. They weren't going anywhere.

However, he needed a back-up plan. They weren't going to leave without Luke, and he wanted his son captured. So he again ordered them to be allowed to escape, but to make it look good. They weren't going anywhere anyhow--they'd just be going straight into the shuttle bay of a Star Destroyer, unable to jump to hyperspace. He knew that Luke had been developing his skills, so it is not unreasonable to assume that he could send a message via the force to effect an extraction. Luke could flee, and Luke is certainly clever and skilled enough to find a way past guards--or at least, past enough that he could get out. Then, the Falcon would "rescue" him, leave atmosphere, and promptly be captured, leaving Luke firmly in the hands of Vader.

Lobot being able to lead a security detail anywhere? That's either a gross oversight, one that is unbelievable given that Vader himself ordered the Falcon to be disabled, or deliberate. He knew Calrissian would attempt to break the Princess and Chewie out--why do you think he kept altering the deal, pushing it well beyond the boundaries that Lando would accept? Did he think that Lando would simply go along with this, without resisting? Surely not.

This leaves the final movie, Return of the Jedi. Again, we see nothing but extreme competency and accuracy on the part of the stormtroopers in battle.

During the battle, we never see the results of their pot-shots against rebels or Ewoks, but we do see them laying down a consistent volley of fire, with disciplined shots, and constant ducking back to cover. One could argue this would mean inaccurate shots, but given the first movie's opening sequence, that is hard to believe. They were using the sights to aim, instead of firing from the hip, during this fight and on the ship combat, they did not bother aiming carefully. It's hard to believe they lose any accuracy at all when using a more carefully aimed approach.

So what direct evidence do we have of their shooting? When Han and Leia are attempting to break into the bunker, two successive pot-shots hit a child-sized object behind partial cover, instant disabling the droid, and inflicting a potentially serious wound on Leia. Again, these were shots taken under hasty aim against targets behind cover, while shots were going towards them. This is not an easy thing--ask an infantryman if you disbelieve me.

The evidence is clear--Stormtroopers are quite accurate and effective soldiers, with top of the line equipment. Claiming otherwise is slander.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

HoosierDaddy, on 09 March 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I'll admit the newer movies look better. How could they NOT look better?

From a purely graphical point of view, the new movies look better, but artistically, I'd give the edge to the original trilogy any day. Not because it was particularly brilliant artistically - it wasn't - but the new trilogy's soulless CGI, chaotic battles and shoving as much irrelevant shit into every scene as possible killed it for me looks-wise. It's just incoherent and, for all its expensive computer-generated splendour, ends up an incredibly dull sensory overload.