[QuickTidal]

Illuyankas, on 14 November 2010 - 03:28 AM, said:

Yeah, the scene in Crusade where Kate Capshaw never appeared.

Yeah, cause the German chick from Crusade was SO much better. She stank of turncoat from the get-go and couldn't act her way out of a paper bag.

At least Capshaw was playing a ditzy, American singer....she pulled that off in spades.

[Illuyankas]

So what you're saying is that if one person acts like a fish pretending to be a bird, and another acts like a chainsaw being applied to your testicles pretending to be a chainsaw being applied to your testicles, then the chainsaw being applied to your testicles is better because it performed its excruciatingly painful and horrendously unbearable role with more skill than the fish failing at being a bird? Because I'd rather see a tuna flop around in a seagull costume then suffer the buzzsaw-on-balls sensation of that performance ever again.

Or to put it another way, SHE IS A SCREECHY UNLIKEABLE TUMOUR THAT MADE EVERY SCENE SHE WAS INFLICTED UPON A LIVING HELL.

[Tavvar]

For Indy, I prefer Young Indian Jones, they are some of my favorite movies. I never really got into the original Indy movies and never saw the new one (which I think is a good thing). Young Indy tries to explain Indy's past by showing how he grew up. He gets to meet lots of famous people from the early 20th century and fights in WWI. I think the stories are pretty good, though that may be becasue I first saw them when I was in elementary school and watched them a lot.

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

[McLovin]

Illuyankas, on 14 November 2010 - 05:10 AM, said:

Or to put it another way, SHE IS A SCREECHY UNLIKEABLE TUMOUR THAT MADE EVERY SCENE SHE WAS INFLICTED UPON A LIVING HELL.

Good....gooooooood....let the hate flow through you.

We need a Palpatine emoticon.

[Illuyankas]

Pfft, Palpatine needs an Illy emoticon.

...

[QuickTidal]

Haha, I have never heard of anyone having such a vehement dislike of an Indy character. LOL.

Your analogy is kinda of out there....but hey to each their own brother. If you dislike her that much then I can see the TEMPLE dislike.

All in all I used to say I preferred Marion Ravenwood from RAIDERS best anyways...but then she came back to do SKULL and her stock plummeted.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2010 - 01:53 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

[Coco with marshmallows]

regarding Indy 4 - there are some small but significant change I would have made that (I think) would have improved the film immensely.

First - Commies as bad guys. Fair enough, but rather than the Russians, have the villains as Chinese, which leads me to:

Second - Main villain - instead of Cate Blanchett, dig up Ke Huy Quan (Shortround) and have him leading the Chinese expedition. This also adds a layer of tension regarding the fact that here would be someone raised as a son by Indy, versus his actual son who was raised by someone else.

Third - Ray Winstone - lose him. Really, there was no point to his character. If you want to have Indy dealing with feelings of betrayal - well, Shortround is a Commie.

But hey, that's just me.

As to Star Wars.....

I agree with the progression of quality from 1-3. I quite enjoyed 3, apart from a few points (What the F*** is a Youngling? you've called them children in 1 and 2, so what are you playing at?) Still think Empire is the best out of the originals though, and no surprise that it wasn't directed by Lucas OR have the repartee between Han and Leia written by him.

[QuickTidal]

Cocoreturns, on 14 November 2010 - 07:21 PM, said:

regarding Indy 4 - there are some small but significant change I would have made that (I think) would have improved the film immensely.

First - Commies as bad guys. Fair enough, but rather than the Russians, have the villains as Chinese, which leads me to:

Second - Main villain - instead of Cate Blanchett, dig up Ke Huy Quan (Shortround) and have him leading the Chinese expedition. This also adds a layer of tension regarding the fact that here would be someone raised as a son by Indy, versus his actual son who was raised by someone else.

Third - Ray Winstone - lose him. Really, there was no point to his character. If you want to have Indy dealing with feelings of betrayal - well, Shortround is a Commie.

This is a brilliant idea! You're right, would have made that flick WAY better!

[Tavvar]

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

[QuickTidal]

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 16 November 2010 - 03:14 PM

[Lousy]

Quote

At the risk of being flammed I do believe I'm the only Star Wars fan who liked every one six main movies. Like really, my favourite is the Phantom Menace. Due to this and many other examples in my life my friends see me as someone with an inhuman ability to look beyond flaws. I don't know, I just think there's too much criticism in the world.

You're not the only one who liked the 6 feature lengths, 'Survivor. I liked them as well .. yet for myself, that's about all I like about that general time period of the SW-verse. For some reason I cannot get into any other books, or the Clone Wars series stuff, or any of it from that period of Phantom Menace thru Return of the Jedi. Likely not from the period just after, either.

I did, however, enjoy the Darth Bane trilogy, and am eye-balling Fatal Alliance from the 'Old Republic' w/ some hot and heavy interest. I guess I just prefer the Galaxy a bit longer ago than what the movies dealt with. Popular character burn-out perhaps...

BTW, has anyone read those early Sith e-novellas yet? I wonder if they are any good...

This post has been edited by Lousy: 22 November 2010 - 06:31 AM

[QuickTidal]

Lousy, on 22 November 2010 - 06:22 AM, said:

BTW, has anyone read those early Sith e-novellas yet? I wonder if they are any good...

Not yet, but they concern a tribe of Sith that crash land on Kesh...the descendants of which are main characters in the Fate Of The Jedi series millenia later.

These Sith are very caste-oriented and VERY interesting as a society. If the ancestors that are in those ebooks are half as interesting as their descendants then you'll be in for a treat.

[Garak]

I read them and they were good.

If you like the Darth Bane stuff, try and find Jedi vs Sith (it's a comic). It was the original Bane story and it's much better than Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. Also you might want to check out Knights of the Old Republic comics (by John Jackson Miller) if you like the Old Republic Era.

[Lousy]

Thanks for the info Quick' & Garak -- definitely prefer the older SW-verse (history buff anyway ), and the comics sound great

[McLovin]

Or for far-future SW, it's hard to beat Star Wars: Legacy from Dark Horse comics (same people who did the Knights of the Old Republic comic Garak mentioned). That's probably my favorite of the Star Wars comics so far. My second favorite is Dark Times, set right after the end of Revenge of the Sith, also a Dark Horse product.

[QuickTidal]

McLovin, on 23 November 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

Or for far-future SW, it's hard to beat Star Wars: Legacy from Dark Horse comics (same people who did the Knights of the Old Republic comic Garak mentioned). That's probably my favorite of the Star Wars comics so far. My second favorite is Dark Times, set right after the end of Revenge of the Sith, also a Dark Horse product.

Agreed. Legacy is supremely badass!

[RedFox]

Obviously there are flaws with the prequels. However, if you cut out the dumb love story and the Jar Jar Binks parts, they are significantly better. There is also the problem from A New Hope. There are literally hundreds of TIE fighters in the Death Star. They send out ONE squadron. Biggest effing plot hole EVER!

This post has been edited by RedFox: 24 November 2010 - 11:25 PM

[RedFox]

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

[QuickTidal]

RedFox, on 24 November 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 16 November 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Tavvar, on 14 November 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now to get back to the purpose of this thread: I prefer the original 3 movies, I saw them for the first time about the time the prequels came out. I think they have a better story, which I think is the most important part of a movie, book (Malazan), or game. Though I do kind of like II and III, haven't watched them in a while though. I also like some of the Expanded Universe (actually the start of the road to get me to the Malazan books), I like most of the ones I read (Thrawn, X-Wing), but stopped at the organic alien ship invasion (can't spell their name). I kind of think that Lucas is now making too much extra stuff (books, TV, games) now and a lot of it is not very good. He should rein in the extras and have more quality control (like he should have done on the prequels).

Actually, a lot of the extended universe stuff is only approved by Lucas. Younger, more saavy minds are at the helm of a lot of it (ie. The Force Unleashed, The Old REpublic, Legacy comics). after the whole Yhuzan Vong invasion stuff settled, Aaron Allston, Karen Traviss and Troy Denning started to write the Legacy of the Force series concerning the Solo twins and Luke and Mara's kid Ben as they are pretty much adult Jedi dealing with some crazy stuff. It's good, not great, but has a decent ending. It's nine books long, and could have been six. Characters like Jaina Solo, Jagged Fel,and Tenel Ka save that series for me as they are pure unadulterated awesome (TEMPEST and EXILE being the best books IMHO)....of late they are doing the Fate Of The Jedi series which deals with the aftermath of the ending of Legacy and gives us an amped up storyline and a WAY better premise with Sith re-entering the fray , but in a different way. The Clone Wars cartoon is also absolutely amazing! Lucas needs to take stock and realize that the folk doing his EU stuff are producing WAY better stories and ideas than he eve came up with for the prequels.

I stopped in the Vong invasion series, but maybe I'll try legacy whenever I run out of things to read (may be a while...) I liked the Clone Wars cartoons. For the books I occasionally look at all the titles and there are just so many books now, it looks like there are too many, I guess I should read them again before saying its too much. I also love the KOTOR's (played them way too many times), and I generally think that some of the expanded Universe is better than some of the movies.

Legacy of the Force is OKAY. It ain't brilliant, and one of the problems was that Karen Traviss was really adept at writing about stormtroopers and Boba Fett, but her bits about the Jedi's and the senate and whatnot were more lackluster. Denning and Allston kind of hold the series together. That said, Jacen Solo's plotline is interesting (though my complaint is that he makes A LOT of boneheaded decisions), if a bit contrived. I think I mentioned in another thread that the series is 9 books and could have easily been 6 rocking ones. Instead there are three that are just kind of ho-hum (not bad mind you...just ho-hum) That said, so far the first entry in the follow-up series Fate Of The Jedi (OUTCAST) has been really impressing me. The plotlines don't feel like anything that's been done before, it is dealing with the DIRECT aftermath of the Legacy plotline. Quite worthwhile and is much better than I thought it would be. They are still using Denning and Allston, but have switched Traviss out (she's been doing clone troooper stuff in a pre-rebellion series and is kicking ass there) for Christie Golden (who I hope is better) and we'll see how she does with the second book OMEN.

So as it stands, you can skip the Yhuzan Vong stuff, it's okay, but I never liked them as an enemy. I'd read the Legacy series to get up to speed (don't worry, they are short) and contain a few of the best SW EU books that have come out in a while (TEMPEST, EXILE), but if they get tedious for you you can skim their gist at Wookiepedia and move onto Fate Of The Jedi.

I am also one of the poeple who believe what is going on in the Extended Universe is WAY better than what went on in the prequels.

Also, another nice thing about the EU is how Legacy Of The Force (and all subsequent books) came out after Revenge Of The Sith came out, so the authors have been able to mention, reference (and sometimes even include) characters, places and the like from the prequels and the Old Republic. Thus tying the series together in a FAR more satisfying way than they were able to do with the Vong series, and it defintiely makes the series have a much more enjoyable read (ie. Luke and the Jedi Order...as of one of the Legacy books...once again are using the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and even the old Jedi council chamber ect.).

EDIT: I just found out that after writing her Republic Commando books Karen Traviss left the SW universe for good (she started a new series about the 501st, but won't finish it). She was PO'ed that she had to follow canon and that the new SW: Clone Wars animated series was covering the Mandalorians and giving a back story that was much more fleshed out...negating the books she had written as completely not following canon. The problem with that is that she CHOSE to write about the Mandalorians and add them to the fray, when her books were meant to be about a Republic Clone Trooper platoon and fighting the Seperatists...in which case she wouldn't have had any problems with continuity and canon...but she personally chose to write about Mandalore and claims that when they were writing Clone Wars animated series season two and fleshing out the Mandalorians for the first time in all their glory they didn't consult her and that she purposely chose the Mandalorians cause they were "backwater" in the EU. Hey lady, guess what? I don't know if you realized, but Boba Fett (a well known Mandalorian) is probably in the top three fave Star Wars characters of all time. Apparently Traviss added the Mandalorians (her backwater people) to her Clone Commando books on her own without being prompted....sorry Traviss, you effed up. Canon is canon. Lucas himself disapproved of a plot thread in one of the comics concerning Jedi Quinlan Vos because he was saving him to show up in the Clone Wars series (which he has done now in a season 3 episode), so it's clear that canon is canon. She should have looked into things.

Like I said above, Traviss's 3 book entries into the Legacy of the Force series are the worst of the lot when it comes to her stuff about Jacen or the Jedi (what the point of the story was meant to be about)....and her Boba Fett stuff (which is amazing) was what she always had at the forefront. The result is a disjointed series where two authors were writing the main storyline and Traviss was doing her own thing, which while it had good parts doesn't really fit as a puzzle piece.

It's unfortunate that she chose to add the Mandalorians to her Clone Trooper Commando books, cause writing about the military aspect of the SW universe is what she did best and she could have maintained her niche there for quite a while. That said, I also understand, that just like when Jim Butcher wrote a Spiderman book, Tie-In or EU stuff for an existing film, comic or tv series doesn't pay a lot, so if she needed to pay the bills and do other stuff that's cool too.

I dunno, I just think my experience was that her books didn't fit. I read Allston's first Legacy book BETRAYAL first and was impressed...then Traviss does the second book BLOODLINES and while I liked it, I was kind of off kilter about it because so much of it had to do exclusively with an aging Boba Fett and not much the main plotline of Jacen, and I kept checking to make sure I was reading the right book.

First of all, while Boba Fett is and always will be my favorite character, he is so out of touch with the Mandalorian people that the only Mando thing about him is his armor. Secondly, have you seen the Clone Wars version of Mandalore? It is FUDGED up! Where are all of the farms, or the fortress at Keldabe? Instead we have domed cities and a culture that is so neutral they are a disgrace to Manadalore. The Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes make me depressed at how they have warped my favorite civilization in Star Wars. Finally, Traviss brought in the Mandalorians because it makes sense that Jango Fett would have brought in other Mandalorians to help him train the army.

The Clone Wars Mandalorians are a sect of the species that survived out of the scattered Mandalore and decided warriors was not the way. this is a subtle ret-con, but does not dismiss the warrior caste of Mandalore at all. It's seems a bit close-minded to believe that after what, like 6 episodes so far of the new season you condemn their Mandalore plotline so vehemently. The Warrior caste you speak of from past history (Exar Kun ect.) still exist, but are scattered across the galaxy....and for some reason you think they won't show up again...I dunno...later in the season or next season...Sorry dude, but it just seems like sour grapes for a couple of episodes of the tv show where the surviving planetary sect is peaceful...give it a break. These younger folks are writing hands-down the BEST Star Wars entertainment since the original trilogy...they aren't dumb.