[D'rek]

They love the original movies because they first saw them when they were 10 years old, when cuddly ewoks comically destroying giant laser robots was hilarious and they weren't smart/pedantic enough to check if every single line of dialogue and character motivation made perfect sense. They just enjoyed the fantastical spectacle.

They hate the prequel movies because they first saw them when they were old and had lost their childhood innocence, so cartoony aliens having silly hijinks was insulting and poor taste, and they focused on decrypting every single plot point.

If they had seen the prequel movies when they were young then waited years before ever seeing the originals (and never knowing the proper sequence), they'd decry the originals for ruining the wonderful prequels.

[Illuyankas]

Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 02:26 PM, said:

A picture derp derp derp is worth a thousand words hurf durf.

PICTURES, EH

 episode1marriage.jpg (95.92K)
Number of downloads: 0

[Abyss]

D, on 25 October 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

They love the original movies because they first saw them when they were 10 years old, when cuddly ewoks comically destroying giant laser robots was hilarious and they weren't smart/pedantic enough to check if every single line of dialogue and character motivation made perfect sense. They just enjoyed the fantastical spectacle...

QFT.

[amphibian]

Abyss, on 25 October 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

D, on 25 October 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

They love the original movies because they first saw them when they were 10 years old, when cuddly ewoks comically destroying giant laser robots was hilarious and they weren't smart/pedantic enough to check if every single line of dialogue and character motivation made perfect sense. They just enjoyed the fantastical spectacle...

QFT.

But what's interesting is that amongst the several dozen younger kids and cousins I know, none of them owns any of the prequels on DVD and rewatches it/them. Not a single one of them. A couple watched a few episodes of The Clone Wars, but that's because of the Cartoon Network airings.

Whatever the original trilogy had in terms of appeal to a younger crowd, the prequels don't have it. Many of these same kids can quote nearly word for word from Space Jam, which is one of the most commercialized, non-sensical movies ever to be made. Most also own one or more Pixar movies.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

I just watched all 7 parts of the Episode I review that Illy posted and I have to say that I agree with every single point. It really opened my eyes to how atrocious that film actually is! If you listen to/watch what this guy has to say, you'll realise that there's not just one on going plot point that lets the film down but every single point, right from the very start is flawed in nearly every possible way! It's crazy!

And for the record, I'm not hating -- I like Star Wars.

As someone-- as Sombra said earlier, it's not the film(s) (the 'first' (newer) three, anyway) that are the problem, it's just goddamned George Lucas who seems to have decided to make prequels but has somehow managed to completely fuck it up in the process -- If the prequels were made by someone else, they'd have been fine. Similarly if the prequels hadn't been made, that would have also been fine as no one would have known about them.

EDIT:

Quote

Whatever the original trilogy had in terms of appeal to a younger crowd, the prequels don't have it.

I think Lucas just tried waaaayyyyy too hard aiming the film at a young audience, especially in Episode 3, where the droids make all those stupid sacastic comments and shit, in order to make the little kids laugh. WTF? Why bother?! They're fucking ROBOTS -- they don't have a sense of humour! WHY ARE YOU RUINING THE ENTIRE SERIES BY INCLUDING THESE STUPID THINGS?!

Sorry...I don't mind watching the prequels, in fact I find them rather interesting when watched in chronological order, but damn, thinking about their flaws makes me angry!

This post has been edited by Green Pig: 25 October 2010 - 04:47 PM

[Aptorian]

Oh for christ sake. The old ones had those sand dwarves, the wookies, the ewoks, a death star designed like a Star Fox boss, droids that were possibly dumber than the ones in the new version, brain dead death troopers, the "LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER SCENE", giant war machines that handle like a tractor, etc. etc. You could easily make a redlettermedia type rant on any of the old movies as well... but of course that is not popular.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Oh for christ sake. The old ones had those sand dwarves, the wookies, the ewoks, a death star designed like a Star Fox boss, droids that were possibly dumber than the ones in the new version, brain dead death troopers, the "LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER SCENE", giant war machines that handle like a tractor, etc. etc. You could easily make a redlettermedia type rant on any of the old movies as well... but of course that is not popular.

Indeed, you probably could but I think the point is that the prequels are even worse (which, if you think about it the other way around, makes the originals good, compared).

This post has been edited by Green Pig: 25 October 2010 - 04:48 PM

[Illuyankas]

No-one's saying the original trilogy is perfect, Apt. We're just saying that the prequels are objectively, irrefutably and undeniably bad films, especially Episode 1. Come on, 2 had its moments (specifically the ones without Hayden or Portman) and 3 was alright for large chunks but 1 was so, so terrible.

Although if you do want to do a rant on the originals, I'm all ear.

[Salt-Man Z]

The prequel trilogy is a gorgeously-rendered collection of turds. None of those movies made a lick of sense. Go watch the Plinkett 7-part review that Illy linked to upthread if you don't believe me.

I was never a huge fan of the first movie, but I rewatched it recently (for the first time in probably 10 years) with my kids and was astonished to discover how much better than I remembered it was. The second is just about perfect, and the third is an absolute blast (I never did understand the anti-Ewok venom that gets spewed.) Even Lucas' perpetual meddling hasn't screwed the original trilogy up yet.

The difference is in the dialogue and the acting, but also in the storytelling. The prequels are obviously just a bunch of pretty set pieces with a plot finagled to tie them together. By comparison, the original trilogy has less action and more downtime; but that's because it concerns itself with things like plot and character and mythic overtones. The prequels are just advertising for ILM and Hasbro's toyline.

I say this as someone who enjoyed the prequels; I just don't think very highly of them. I also love the EU, mainly the novels. I've invested myself in the universe, and I want to see how it plays out. This doesn't mean I don't recognize crap when I see it, but I'm not going waste my time whining and complaining and crusading about it either.

[Salt-Man Z]

Wait, how can you complain about the Death Star being a "Star Fox boss" when Episode I ended the exact same way? Oh no, wait, it was completely different. In Ep.I a little kid did it all by accident.

[MTS]

Salt-Man Z, on 25 October 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

The prequel trilogy is a gorgeously-rendered collection of turds.

I officially love that metaphor.

This post has been edited by MTS: 25 October 2010 - 05:02 PM

[McLovin]

Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

The old ones had those sand dwarves,

They prefer the term Sand PEOPLE, Apt. So insensitive.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

McLovin, on 25 October 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

The old ones had those sand dwarves,

They prefer the term Sand PEOPLE, Apt. So insensitive.

No, I think he's referring to the Jawas.

This post has been edited by Green Pig: 25 October 2010 - 05:23 PM

[Aptorian]

Illuyankas, on 25 October 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

No-one's saying the original trilogy is perfect, Apt. We're just saying that the prequels are objectively, irrefutably and undeniably bad films, especially Episode 1. Come on, 2 had its moments (specifically the ones without Hayden or Portman) and 3 was alright for large chunks but 1 was so, so terrible.

Although if you do want to do a rant on the originals, I'm all ear.

Strange I thought the third one was the worst. Mainly because of the giant plot holes revolving around all the most powerful jedies being unable to sense a galactic wide conspiracy in the making.

I would actually like to do a rant on the old ones, I'd need to refresh my memory though. Maybe I'll download them one day soon and get on it.

[amphibian]

Green Pig, on 25 October 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

As someone-- as Sombra said earlier, it's not the film(s) (the 'first' (newer) three, anyway) that are the problem, it's just goddamned George Lucas who seems to have decided to make prequels but has somehow managed to completely fuck it up in the process

I thought for a while about how exactly Lucas fucked up the prequels. It's a great idea on paper: tell the origin story of perhaps the single most iconic film villain in the last fifty years. In my mind, there's a couple major things that Lucas did wrong from the get-go and the enormous power and resources he had already exacerbated these problems.

1) He flat out admitted in a post-Episode III that he had the idea on the back burner for years and then stretched out the story into three movies and threw in filler to make it "more palatable" - and to make more money.

2) He made the movies enter a weird middle zone between "appealing to adults" and "appealing to children".

The prequels succeeded in the theaters primarily because of an amazing marketing push and the spectacle of them. However, Episode I suffered greatly from being both a film about the political situation and players that led to the rise of Palpatine and the introduction of Anakin as a boy. As Apt said, there were some very memorable parts of Episode I - the introduction of Darth Maul, the pod-racing, the underwater Gungan city and the introduction of Senator Palpatine as a senator - but Lucas may have been better off leaving the Nemoidan schemes and Naboo saving for the second movie. I'll explain what I mean. My vision actually incorporates the Clone Wars cartoon (I heart Genndy Tartakovsky), which will be the

First movie - Jedi team wrecking things in Tatooinean crime lord area (perhaps Jabba's predecessors?), they discover a slave boy who is able to win pod-races through Force powers, he's cute and smart as hell, they free him from slavery, but mother dies. They take him to the Jedi Council for approval, misgivings are expressed, he gets accepted, doesn't fit in, they take him to next assignment. Darth Maul introduced as a mysterious figure who fights one of the Jedi briefly with one of the Jedi losing a body part. Darth Maul's mentor is shown giving approval to start the next plan.

Second movie - The Nemoidans are blockading Naboo with their droid army. Senator Palpatine is working to construct a swift military response (clone army), since the Republic can't mobilize enough troops to deal with the Nemoidans and the Jedis are spread too thin. Maul is wrecking any real resistance on Naboo and/or performing assassinations of senators who are smart enough to figure things out. Anakin along with Obiwan is sent to Naboo to try and help things out. He falls in love with the Queen after spiriting her away from a Maul attack - while Obiwan and Qui Gon fight Maul. Qui Gon dies, Obiwan severely injures Maul. Anakin is lovey dovey with the queen. The Clone Wars starts. Jango Fett attacks Amidala, as Maul can't do it, and Anakin and Obiwan fend him off. A link leads Obiwan closer to the truth and maybe Anakin gets a Sith holocron or something.

Third movie - Naboo is lost to the Nemoidans, who then go on a galactic rampage with the droids. Obiwan is separate from Anakin now. Both are heroes in the Clone Wars. Amidala is a queen in exile and Anakin is furious over lack of Coruscant/Jedi Council respose to help her out. Palpatine makes soothing noises, but keeps pointing Anakin in ways to get more and more power of the Force as he fights in the Clone Wars. Maul is healed, kills the Nemoidan leadership and then is told to go after pregnant Amidala and Anakin (Maul is being set up to lose). Anakin kills Maul and assumes his place. Palpatine seizes control of Senate, starts taking out the Jedi Council, Yoda fights him, Jango trains Boba and Anakin kills a shitton of Jedi. The Jedi fragment, the Nemoidans are squashed and the clones start exhibiting serious hand-eye coordination problems as they age(explains why they're such bad shots). Anakin fights Obiwan in a better volcano battle. Amidala flees to several different worlds and dies while delivering children on Tatooine. The Vader costume is born and Anakin kills one more Jedi as the movie ends.

None of this Darth Tyranus idiocy, the Gungan city can still happen, but only briefly and we get a better, clearer idea of why Anakin turned, why Palpatine was such a bad guy and Maul actually matters.

If Lucas makes these movies more adult and leaves a huge chunk of the cutesy stuff for the Clone Wars, he's able to make the tone of each clearer, deliver better stories and avoid stuff like me quitting Star Wars forever.

Agh.

[Primateus]

The prequels turned the most awesomest badass villain EVER into a whiny brat, that is all there is to say about that!

[amphibian]

I spent 15 minutes on that post and I came up with a better story than George Lucas. What does that say about that fat sack of endorsement-seeking goo?

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

amphibian, on 25 October 2010 - 05:56 PM, said:

I spent 15 minutes on that post and I came up with a better story than George Lucas. What does that say about that fat sack of endorsement-seeking goo?

A quick read through that and it does seem to make more sense than the actual films do, where I don't even think the characters themselves know why they're doing half the things they are, let alone the audience!

What was the basis for the Clone Wars, again? The Trade Federation go to war because they're told to and the Republic fight back with an army that, if I remember correctly was commissioned by a Sith in order for the Sith to have someone...to fight against? What?!

This post has been edited by Green Pig: 25 October 2010 - 06:13 PM

[foolio]

I can still remember my Mom taking my brother and I to see the original Star Wars when it first came out. I remember just being absolutely awe struck. I was six. After the movie we both rode home in utter silence, I think my brain was absolutely fried. Good times....

[McLovin]

Green Pig, on 25 October 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

What was the basis for the Clone Wars, again? The Trade Federation go to war because they're told to and the Republic fight back with an army that, if I remember correctly was commissioned by a Sith in order for the Sith to have someone...to fight against? What?!

Palpatine manipulated both sides to create a war, so he could become Emperor. That actually makes sense.

That neither the Senate nor the Jedi could figure out that this was what was really happening, is what makes no sense.