[Aptorian]

http://www.onesixthw...-star-wars.html

Quote

Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

By: Adam Summers 5/23/05

My girlfriend doesn’t understand what I see in Star Wars. We’ve had several soul-crushing arguments about what exactly makes this series so important to me, and every time I have found it more and more difficult to argue my case. As the maddening years have wound on, I think I finally understand the reason for this crippling handicap.

There is a diabolical twist to Star Wars fandom, you see, that defies comprehension, and yet is the life-blood of all Star Wars fans. It is this:

Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

If you run into somebody who tells you they thought the franchise was quite enjoyable, and they very-much liked the originals as well as the prequels, and even own everything on DVD, and a few of the books, these imposters are not Star Wars Fans.

Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

The primary fulcrum for the Star Wars fan’s hate (including my own) is George Lucas, creator of Star Wars. Unlike Trekkies/Trekkers who adore Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, Star Wars fans hate the father of their obsession. We hate the fact that George Lucas got it wrong from the beginning, creating incest between Luke and Leia. We hate the fact that he wrenched Return of the Jedi off of Kashyyyk and set it on Endor with those tiny, furry Hobbit bitches he called “Ewoks”, which is a syllabic anagram of Wookiee if you’re obsessed enough. We despise the entire existence of literally half of the Star Wars movies, blaming George Lucas’ greed and flawed ‘vision’ for everything.

We believe George Lucas’ ideal death time was 2:07am, 14 November, 1990.

Star Wars fans also hate the original Star Wars trilogy. We think Mark Hamill’s acting was whiny, the pacing was flawed, and Empire was better than Jedi, making the end of the series a let-down. We hate the way Boba Fett died, and we hate the cantankerous, arthritic duel between Vader and Obi-wan. We don’t understand why the storm-troopers can’t shoot worth a damn, and we don’t get why “an entire legion of [the Emperor’s] best troops”(ROTJ, Palpatine) can be overpowered by a tribal society of midget teddy-bears armed largely with rocks and twigs. Star Wars fans hate omnipotent war-machines that get their legs tangled in strings, or slip on logs. They hate Darth Vader’s face and that stupid harmonica thing he was playing. Star Wars fans hate the original Star Wars trilogy.

There is also, as you probably know, a series of Special Editions that have replaced the original Star Wars trilogy, and these are also hated by Star Wars fans with an even more scorching fervor. Star Wars fans hate the glaring CG changes made to scenes we already hated to begin with. We hate that Han Solo now killed Greedo in self-defense, and then stepped on Jabba the Hutt’s tail (which we liken to Carrot Top stepping on Fidel Castro’s tail). We hate the fact that the ghost of Alec Guinness (whose name is an anagram of Genuine Class, by the way) now stands next to Hayden Christensen (whose name I tried to re-arrange into a flattering anagram myself, but only came up with “Nn…Dense Chest Hair”). Star Wars fans are unsure if Fidel Castro has a tail or not, but we hate the Special Editions of the trilogy just the same.

There is of course also a prequel trilogy to Star Wars. It is newer, more epic, more expensive, and more visually stunning than the original trilogy. Star Wars fans know this, and so we hate it even more. We hate it with the burning passion of a setting pair of twin suns. Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, technology that is blatantly more sophisticated than the “later” original trilogy…we despise all of it. There’s nothing a Star Wars fan hates more than a Star Wars prequel. They demystified Boba Fett, contradicted countless lines in the original trilogy (Obi-Wan: “He was our only hope.” Yoda: “No…there is another.” Obi-Wan (not in script): “Oh, right, I f*cking held both of these kids as they were born in Episode 3. Sorry Yoda, I just plumb forgot!”)

Star Wars fans think Mark Ha…uh…Hayden Christensen’s acting was whiny. And the pacing was flawed.

Beyond the movies, there are also various television-related Star Wars endeavors which Star Wars fans despise. Starting with that abysmal “Holiday Special” in which Carrie Fisher appeared drunk and tried to celebrate Christmas through song in a Jesus-less galaxy, Star Wars fans have watched and hated everything. We think Droids was a waste of time, Ewok Adventures was an extension of everything we hated about Return of the Jedi, and we’ve seen both seasons of Clone Wars which we hate because we believe them to be immensely inconsistent with the prequels we also hate.

Star Wars fans think the Star Wars comic-books are a stockpile of contrivance written for marketing purposes by people who know nothing about Star Wars. Every gimmick imaginable to bring back super-weapons long destroyed and token bad-guys long-beaten is spewed forth from these comic books, and Star Wars fans want nothing to do with it. Star Wars fans have read the one in which Han Solo works in tandem with a giant rabbit and we are not impressed.

Then, naturally, there are the videogames. Star Wars fans hate LucasArts, and the opportunist drivel that comprises most of the gameplay-less apertures known as Star Wars games that they vomit up every fiscal quarter. Star Wars fans know that there is no such thing as a good Star Wars strategy game, we yelled at our PS1 when Masters of Teras-Kasi came out, and we kind-of liked the Jedi Knight series, but not at first and definitely not towards the end. Star Wars fans did not like Knights of the Old Republic, unless they were RPG fans. This does not count. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars videogames.

The final main elixir of Star Wars folklore is the ever-growing library of Star Wars books. These have managed to make a complex main character our of practically every background alien seen in the movies, and expanded the universe into a colossal, self-contradictory maze. Star Wars fans hate this. We hate how trite and tired the books were getting before the New Jedi Order series, and we hate the New Jedi Order series for being so radically different, and not nearly trite or tired enough. Star Wars fans hate it when previously-deceased characters are brought back to life, but we also hate Timothy Zahn for not bringing his characters back to life. Star Wars fans did not hate Grand Admiral Thrawn, but we do now, because he is always dead. The Star Wars movies also contradict and completely ignore droves of information within the Star Wars books. Star Wars fans now know that George Lucas has no idea who Jaster Mareel is, and it makes us very angry. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars books.

Now that I have covered all of this, you can finally begin to compute why I can never prove to Emily that Star Wars is a monumental event worth devoting one’s life to. The very nature of the argument means I have to defend Star Wars, and since I am a Star Wars fan, I don’t actually understand how to do that.

Maybe I’ll put it like this. To be a Star Wars fan, one must possess the ability to see a million different failures and downfalls, and then somehow assemble them into a greater picture of perfection. Every true Star Wars fan is a Luke Skywalker, looking at his twisted, evil father, and somehow seeing good.

My earlier statement needs slight revision. We hate everything about Star Wars.

But the idea of Star Wars…the idea we love.

[HoosierDaddy]

I agree with parts and parcels. i can hand wave anything in the original, and not give a damn. Luke thinks Leia is hot and she gives him a kiss? Well, whatever. They were on a freezing fucking planet and he had just almost died. Also, Leia was hot. So....

Prequels, were not more advanced technologically and I don't understand that argument at all, they were more visually stunning and their lightsaber battles were better. Space-battles were worth shit, though.

Comics: Don't read them.

I've waxed poetically on the EU before and how Lucas fucked over canon after 10 years and 20+ books with the prequels, and I did give up during the New Jedi Order, but only because I'd read The Crystal Star, Planet of Twilight, Children of the Jedi, The Courtship of Princess Leia, and other assorted single volume books that were so fucking awful it is fairly unbelievable.

The video game bit jumps the shark. LucasArts Star Wars games fucking own, and not just Kotor. Idiot.

[Gothos]

All of that cannot stand before the coolness of lightsabers. That is all.

(Myself I probably don't count as a Star Wars fan, though I share much of the hate mentioned. But I loved KotOR.)

[Mentalist]

Yoda Stories is one of the best desktop time-killers EVER

[worry]

The SNES trilogy games were awesome.

[masan's saddle]

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[Satan]

He didn't even mention X-wing and Tie Fighter. Star Wars fan? I think not!

[Dolmen 2.0]

more reasons why I think malaz the movie is a worrisome prospect.
I'm sure SE has more common sense than lucas but just the IDEA of
the chain of dogs happening on genabeckis (sp?) or some such
other blatant contradiction makes me cringe.

I'm not a star wars fan but I can respect this guys logic.
sometimes the concept of a story means more to fans than
the author realizes.

any contradiction risks mass hysteria

This post has been edited by Dolmen: 25 October 2010 - 11:57 AM

[Aptorian]

I think it is safe to say that unless you mercilessly diluted every book, cutting away 60% of the material and characters, and dumbed down every conversation and inserted some cute CGI shadow poodles, the Malazan Universe on film could never become the Star Wars franchise. It's just not geared for mass consumption.

Now returning to the Star Wars hatred. The reason to why I posted it is that I think that (books and videogames aside) he makes some excellent points. I have never been a hard core Star Wars nerd. I was born just a tad bit too late to get into the films as a child (all though I do remember a few childhood friends who owned some action figures). I remember the films as being entertaining and awesome, everybody loves light-sabres and evil cyborgs as a kid.

It's the fanatical rage directed towards Lucas and the prequels that I don't get. We've had these discussions several times, every time I am derided for liking the prequels and thinking they are better than the old ones in many areas. But nobody is ever able to explain why. There was just as big gaps in plots of the old trilogy as the new one, the acting was just as cheesy, the sword and gun fights were laughable, etc.

I can only deduce that it has something to do with older movies having a classical feel and the fact that many/most SW nerds have the old ones burned into their childhood memories and are incapable of looking at the old films with nothing but fondness, as though realising that the old films were as bad as the new ones would some how traumatize their inner child.

[Traveller]

 Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

I think it is safe to say that unless you mercilessly diluted every book, cutting away 60% of the material and characters, and dumbed down every conversation and inserted some cute CGI shadow poodles, the Malazan Universe on film could never become the Star Wars franchise. It's just not geared for mass consumption.

Now returning to the Star Wars hatred. The reason to why I posted it is that I think that (books and videogames aside) he makes some excellent points. I have never been a hard core Star Wars nerd. I was born just a tad bit too late to get into the films as a child (all though I do remember a few childhood friends who owned some action figures). I remember the films as being entertaining and awesome, everybody loves light-sabres and evil cyborgs as a kid.

It's the fanatical rage directed towards Lucas and the prequels that I don't get. We've had these discussions several times, every time I am derided for liking the prequels and thinking they are better than the old ones in many areas. But nobody is ever able to explain why. There was just as big gaps in plots of the old trilogy as the new one, the acting was just as cheesy, the sword and gun fights were laughable, etc.

I can only deduce that it has something to do with older movies having a classical feel and the fact that many/most SW nerds have the old ones burned into their childhood memories and are incapable of looking at the old films with nothing but fondness, as though realising that the old films were as bad as the new ones would some how traumatize their inner child.

KInd of, yes. As a kid, I loved the originals. I didn't care about the ewoks overcoming the empire, or what Vaders face looked like (pretty good i thought), and a lot of the other stuff he mentions. Me and my brother saw them all at the cinema, collected the figures, and liked everything star wars. The films are kind of bad, yes, but there are some great moments which appealed to us as kids. I liked the way the story started on episode 4; i liked the way that all through the original trilogy there were hints at what had been before - the Clone wars, the duel between Anakin and Obi wan, Luke and Leias mother. This was the stuff that (at the time) made it interesting, and gave it a setting and a history.

The prequels are such a fuckup (for me) because all those things hinted at were in a way best left in the imagination. My personal image of a lightsaber duel in a volcano, of Anakin himself, of the clone wars, of what Anakin was like as 'a great pilot', were nothing, nothing like what ended up on the screen in the new films. Which also contradicted or changed what was in the later episodes.

So imo it wasn't so much that they were bad films that got fans riled up, it was the fact that their creator trampled all over the origianal material which people had fond memories of, and told them that this was how it should have been all along. The digitally remastered originals were bad enough; they were unnecessary, but all the flaws in the prequels (like R2 and 3PO on Tatooine, the change of the Force from a discipline to a biological power, Vader turning to the dark side not because he wanted the power, but because he wanted to save his wife etc etc) mean that even the experience of watching the originals for a bit of nostagia has been changed.

Anyhoo. Just thought I'd say something, because I've been off Star Wars for a while now. Until last weekend, I got a boxed set of the originals on dvd.

Untampered with. No CGI. Bad quality film.

It was good to see it again.


( I would be interested to see how Star Trek fans would have reacted if its creator had gone back to the classic originals, added in muppets, rewritten random parts, added in bits previously edited out, and said, 'this is how I wanted it really.')

This post has been edited by Traveller: 25 October 2010 - 01:08 PM

[McLovin]

True aficionados of anything love nothing better than to sit around picking apart the flaws in the material. There was an article in Newsweek recently about the Met's latest staging of Das Rheingold that sold out in a day, because (this is not a precise quote, but close) "for Wagner lovers, there's nothing like booing the new release in person." That's just how fandom is.

Look through the book threads on this very discussion board to find the same dynamic going on, to a lesser degree than SW, but it's still there. Eg, search "Felisin" and see what you get.

[Illuyankas]

 Traveller, on 25 October 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

( I would be interested to see how Star Trek fans would have reacted if its creator had gone back to the classic originals, added in muppets, rewritten random parts, added in bits previously edited out, and said, 'this is how I wanted it really.')

They did, they called it Enterprise! HEY OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[McLovin]

And apologies for doubling down, but in defense of the prequel-haters, Episode I was an abortion. Kinda got the whole prequel trilogy off on the wrong foot.

[Aptorian]

 McLovin, on 25 October 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

And apologies for doubling down, but in defense of the prequel-haters, Episode I was an abortion. Kinda got the whole prequel trilogy off on the wrong foot.

See, this is where I disagree. Much like the old trilogy I think the first film in the prequels was the best one.

In the old films, we never really got to see how much ass a team of Jedis could kick. That is just what we got to see in the opening part of the film. Qui Gon and Obi Wan were fucking amazing as they were making their way through the battle ship.

I never did mind the cute kid portions or the pod race. I thought it was awesome. At the time that was some fucking amazing CGI work.

And Darth Maul was an awesome bad guy, even if his look was extremely cheesy. The final battle was only trumped by the last fight between Anakin and Obi Wan.

The only things I disliked about that film was Jar Jar Binks and his ilk, which really was a crime against good taste, and the fact that they killed of Darth Maul which ended up meaning that the rest of the series lacked a proper bad guy that could be in the middle of shit getting blown the fuck up.

Yeah, parts of it was obviously geared towards a younger fanbase, but so was the first ones apparently, if you read some of the stuff about the making of the films.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 25 October 2010 - 01:32 PM

[Illuyankas]

YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE YIPPEE

MEESA SO HAPPY

Yeah, we told you before you aren't allowed to have opinions and this is exactly why.

Also watch these and learn.

[Traveller]

 Aptorian, on 25 October 2010 - 01:30 PM, said:

 McLovin, on 25 October 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

And apologies for doubling down, but in defense of the prequel-haters, Episode I was an abortion. Kinda got the whole prequel trilogy off on the wrong foot.

See, this is where I disagree. Much like the old trilogy I think the first film in the prequels was the best one.

In the old films, we never really got to see how much ass a team of Jedis could kick. That is just what we got to see in the opening part of the film. Qui Gon and Obi Wan were fucking amazing as they were making their way through the battle ship.

And Darth Maul was an awesome bad guy, even if his look was extremely cheesy. The final battle was only trumped by the last fight between Anakin and Obi Wan.

Certain individual scenes from the prequels do stand out; the Darth Maul fight was undoubtably the best bit - but it is intercut with the worst CGI droid battle ever. Clip of Maul cartwheeling and holding his own against two Jedi with an amazing background score - cut to Jar Jar being chased down a hill by a blue bouncing ball...

I can't give an unbiased opinion, but I'm sure that if I hadn't ever seen star wars, I would still have thought that the film could have been so much better if it stuck with what everyone wanted (Darth Maul, and Jedi taking down ships) and dropped all the cartoon stuff and political backdrop.

[Tsundoku]

 McLovin, on 25 October 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

And apologies for doubling down, but in defense of the prequel-haters, Episode I was an abortion. Kinda got the whole prequel trilogy off on the wrong foot.

Yes.

I don't hate Star Wars, I LOVE Star Wars.

I just hate George Lucas post-1980.

Some seriously well-credentialled genre analyst should write a door-stopper about it all and call it "Fucking Up Something Beautiful, or How George Lucas Literally Lost The Plot".

I mean how the hell can you fuck up your own canon so goddamn badly? At least SE has the excuse of 15 bajillion words, and even then the (fairly trivial) inconsistencies can't be spotted by a 6 year old child with Downs Syndrome. Who is also blind.
Lucas had THREE MOVIES totalling what, maybe 7 hours-ish? You can't retcon something of that profile, just like our shields can't repel firepower ... you catch my drift.

George has my nomination for BDIU.

EDIT: agree most heartily on how awesome Darth Maul was and how much more so he should have been.

Doubly agree on the shittiness of anything and everything Gungan-related.

This post has been edited by Sombra: 25 October 2010 - 02:29 PM

[Aptorian]

A picture derp derp derp is worth a thousand words hurf durf.

[Use Of Weapons]

Star Wars inspires passion in its most ardent fans. And passion hates errors and perceived problems. We don't need to look very far for another example, do we (not that we need to go so far, as SE is streets ahead of Lucas as a creator).

I have to agree with the point about the advanced tech, though. One of the themes of the Empire was dissolution, with increased central control leading to a breakdown of infrastructure (vis. Soviet Union), and the consequent failure to improve upon and even maintain existing tech. The prequel trilogy has gleaming metal, flowing lines, elegance of design, and newness. The original trilogy has dark, dirty, heavily-used machinery, angles not curves, utilitarian design.

[Abyss]

Quote

Why do Star Wars Fans hate Star Wars?

By: Adam Summers 5/23/05

...Beyond the movies, there are also various television-related Star Wars endeavors which Star Wars fans despise. Starting with that abysmal "Holiday Special" in which Carrie Fisher appeared drunk and tried to celebrate Christmas through song in a Jesus-less galaxy, ...

I have to go with him here, the Holiday Special was atrocious. Except the animated storyline. That only mostly sucked.

Quote

Star Wars fans think the Star Wars comic-books are a stockpile of contrivance written for marketing purposes by people who know nothing about Star Wars. ...Star Wars fans have read the one in which Han Solo works in tandem with a giant rabbit and we are not impressed.

Fuck you you ignorant fuck. That two-parter with the laser-gun packin' kung fu rabbit vs velociraptors was AWESOME!!! or something.

Quote

...we also hate Timothy Zahn for not bringing his characters back to life. Star Wars fans did not hate Grand Admiral Thrawn, but we do now, because he is always dead. ...

for writing this I forgive him the rabbit thing ...

 Gothos, on 25 October 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

All of that cannot stand before the coolness of lightsabers. That is all.
...

Excellent point.

 McLovin, on 25 October 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

And apologies for doubling down, but in defense of the prequel-haters, Episode I was an abortion. Kinda got the whole prequel trilogy off on the wrong foot.

It had Darth Maul. He semi-saved it. It was all down the tube from there.