[amphibian]

Feminism is not a dirty word out here. The problem is that how feminism is typically portrayed in movies (out of context, truncated, sloganeering etc.) sets off all kinds of really nasty buttons in the typical comic-book guy/average person.

Also, being in the Israeli army is not an impressive physical feat. Yes, the soldiers do have to be in some modicum of physical condition, but it's primarily non-combat stuff or non-strenuous stuff that they do while receiving some weapons training and close order drills. It's somehow burnt into the minds of Westerners everywhere that Israeli army = awesome - when for the most part, it's regular people wearing uniforms, carrying weapons they kinda dislike and doing national service. I run into this all the time when people talk about the buffoonery that is krav maga.

She's very skinny for a Wonder Woman like the empowered comics version of recent years. Even a year in the squat cage isn't going to see her get significantly bigger. This is a conscious choice to go for the model look. They'll probably have her diet down to rippling abs, CGI her punching stuff really hard and slowly running around looking concerned, rather than show off her power with physical stunts or physique work.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 05 December 2013 - 04:50 AM

[Obdigore]

Julia Benson should have been wonder woman.

And if you are doing nothing but training with a personal trainer and dietician and the goal is to put on muscle, you can do it quite quickly. Especially getting better/more definition in her arms and shoulders.

Have the girl lay bricks 5 days a week. She'll be ready to punch holes like Urko after a month

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 05 December 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Feminism is not a dirty word out here. The problem is that how feminism is typically portrayed in movies (out of context, truncated, sloganeering etc.) sets off all kinds of really nasty buttons in the typical comic-book guy/average person.

Also, being in the Israeli army is not an impressive physical feat. Yes, the soldiers do have to be in some modicum of physical condition, but it's primarily non-combat stuff or non-strenuous stuff that they do while receiving some weapons training and close order drills. It's somehow burnt into the minds of Westerners everywhere that Israeli army = awesome - when for the most part, it's regular people wearing uniforms, carrying weapons they kinda dislike and doing national service. I run into this all the time when people talk about the buffoonery that is krav maga.

She's very skinny for a Wonder Woman like the empowered comics version of recent years. Even a year in the squat cage isn't going to see her get significantly bigger. This is a conscious choice to go for the model look. They'll probably have her diet down to rippling abs, CGI her punching stuff really hard and slowly running around looking concerned, rather than show off her power with physical stunts or physique work.

Feminism isn't in the suffragette stage still, or the bra burning 1960's. It's not that hard to ride the line and make things tailored with a feminist view in a film in 2013 without viewers finding it unpalatable. I can't recall the last film where a woman asserted herself and the script called for it to be shown in a poor light.

A solider is a soldier. If we are hunting for people to play amazonian warrior women, I'd pick an ex-solider actor over Claire Danes every time. Just because it's not like being a Green Beret, doesn't mean it's not of value.

You didn't actually say the thing about her being too skinny for a role in a movie in 2015 did you Amph?

Here are some superheroes before their turns as superheroes.





And on that front, Antje Traue apparently was put through a bulking up to play Faora in MoS. So I think it's fair to assume Snyder will do it right.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

[Aptorian]

I'm just quickly going to interject here that you need testosterone to quickly build new pounds of muscle. Something women don't have a lot of. In the case of Bale I assure you that the guy was on a hefty cocktail of steroids or that transformation would have been impossible on that time scheduel.

That said, sure, loads of calories and hard work could probably give her some better curves over the course of 6-12 months.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Still maintain that Gina Carano should have been wonder woman.

Gadot looks like she'd be blown over by a strong wind.

Also, what ^ NBW said about testosterone levels and steroid usage.

[QuickTidal]

I Am Brian Blessed Not Brent Weeks, on 05 December 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Still maintain that Gina Carano should have been wonder woman.

Gadot looks like she'd be blown over by a strong wind.

Also, what ^ NBW said about testosterone levels and steroid usage.

I agree I wanted Carano (she was my top pick...I'd imagine they didn't go with her cause she's so short)...but I'm cool with Gadot.

Also, I didn't point those actors out to show that girls can bulk up like guys do. I'm saying that with the right regimen she can put some muscle on and look less skinny overall. Anyone can.

[amphibian]

The thing is that the movie makers don't want her to be particularly big or muscular. That's why they cast Gal Gadot with a possible "look stronger" regimen in the works instead of Gina Carano and a "cut weight" routine in the works.

The results shown by Hemsworth, Bale and several other men are not what can happen for Gadot. Even the Traue example you mention doesn't show a woman who is particularly muscular - FFS, she's encased in a muscle suit and does the stand + CGI punch thing.

Basically, Snyder wants a low body fat lady for Wonder Woman to look good with special effects, not a lady who can actually fight.

Look at Penny Thomas.



Penny's not as big as Carano (Penny weighs about 155 lbs in the photo), but Gadot will never look like that. She'll look more like Lena Headey from 300.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 05 December 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Basically, Snyder wants a low body fat lady for Wonder Woman to look good with special effects, not a lady who can actually fight.

You're assuming to know why a guy you don't know IRL cast Gadot. We've now entered your imagination.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 December 2013 - 01:18 AM

[amphibian]

It's not pure conjecture when we can see how Snyder casts fighting women roles in Man of Steel, Watchmen and the stupid dance that isn't a dance movie. That's a discernable pattern.

[amphibian]

Actually, I shouldn't say Sucker Punch was stupid since my biggest criticism is that we never saw the dancing in the theatrical version. If that's restored in the director's version, it could improve as a movie.

But he still cast near waifs in all those roles.

[Dolmen 2.0]

I don't see her building up to the physique Wonder Woman should have. Hollywood transformations can be amazing but this is a genetic no. she has no natural foundation for strong and curvy. That transformation would take alot more time and sciences. Best hope she'll end up looking like Cameron Diaz did at her fittest. Not bad, but not really the wonder woman physique I'd give credit to.

Tbh I'm less worried about what Wonder Woman looks like and more concerned about presence. I expected the next Lucy Lawless to carry this Role. Gina Carano was a more convincing option. Pictures of her and Cavil look good, I do not think height was a problem, clever cinematography would have sorted that out if it were. Probably casting politics are to blame, Agents and directors don't always see eye to eye.

Even if Gadot pulled off the "look" her acting in FF5 was...not that great, but that's just my opinion, could be she stepped her game up and Snyder can really get the best out of an actor. Personally I expect someone cast as WW in this day and age to be naturally tough and I suspect that may be the case here.

It's a bit late but I guess I expected a presence much like Morena Baccarin to be cast and I don't think we'll get that here with Gadot. Somewhere between V and Serenity there was a certain leading charisma to Baccarin that I feel Wonder woman must have in buckets. Also that woman knows how to slam down a threat. A step higher than Scarlett Johanssons Black Widow even. I don't know how to put it, I guess it's lady bad-assery...Lad-bassery...Bad-lady-hood maybe?

-Lady Badassery. Now a word.

[Obdigore]

All these women are ugly (not really, but still). It should have been Julia Benson (shes got the T&A to fill out that costume!)

Or, Cobie Smulders(sp?)...



That said, despite the fact you need Testosterone to pack on muscle quickly, women are still, shockingly, able to become muscular.

Movie is due in 2015, iirc? Gives at least 6 months before filming, which means she has plenty of time to put some muscle definition in her shoulders and arms. She doesn't have to look like

But having a woman that can believably do the stuff Wonder Woman is supposed to do would be nice.

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 06 December 2013 - 07:06 AM

[Dolmen 2.0]

amphibian, on 06 December 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Actually, I shouldn't say Sucker Punch was stupid since my biggest criticism is that we never saw the dancing in the theatrical version. If that's restored in the director's version, it could improve as a movie.

But he still cast near waifs in all those roles.

I got the feeling it could have been a really clever movie actually. there was a depth to it underneath all the flash, jiggle and fire. At the very least it was extremely conceptual. Something went wrong there but I can't begrudge the mans desire to try new things.

This post has been edited by Also Not Brent Weeks: 06 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

[QuickTidal]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 06 December 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

But having a woman that can believably do the stuff Wonder Woman is supposed to do would be nice.

Except Wonder Woman's powers are not a feat of strength. She could weigh two pounds and be as thin a rail and still do the stuff she does. That's kind of the point of superpowers. It's not that she's a bodybuilder who decided to fight crime.

As for the rest of you, that you all have such little faith in what a person can physically accomplish to their body speaks volumes.

I think she's be just fine.

[Aptorian]

I don't really have an opinion about whether or not the actress they chose is a good fit for Wonder Woman. How ever Amazons are supposed to be the peak perfection of what the female body can turn into aren't they? I don't really know DC comics Amazonian lore, but they are supposed to be immortal super warriors, right?

I would expect a real world Wonder Woman to look like an Olympic athlete but again, that's neither here nor there. The important part is whether or not the actress owns the role. How defined her arms and biceps are won't really bother me so long as she doesn't look like Rosie O'donnel.

This post has been edited by Not Brent Weeks: 06 December 2013 - 12:16 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 06 December 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Except Wonder Woman's powers are not a feat of strength. She could weigh two pounds and be as thin a rail and still do the stuff she does. That's kind of the point of superpowers. It's not that she's a bodybuilder who decided to fight crime.

The purposeful contradicting the 50 years of Wonder Woman iconography which presents Diana, Princess/Queen of the Amazons, as a near-Olympic athlete in terms of looks is an artistic choice. However, I believe that the Wonder Woman character presented in the prior 50 years of various media is specifically not two pounds and still doing the stuff that she does. Her physique relates to her power and her character.

Basically, I think you're contorting your opinions to fit your initial stance of liking Gadot. My position is that I have no opinion on Gadot's performances, but readily see that her casting means that Snyder is going against the Wonder Woman canon to a larger degree than prior TV and movies have. Even the Friday Night Lights lady in the briefly lived Wonder Woman tv show a coupe years ago was more physically imposing than Gadot.

Quote

As for the rest of you, that you all have such little faith in what a person can physically accomplish to their body speaks volumes.

Yeah, thinking that a rail thin model likely can't get up to athlete physique inside a year is speaking volumes. This type of body change takes a long time to go through and the process from Hemsworth-skinny to Hemsworth-Thor is not at all analogous. The process from Bale-Machinist to Bale-Batman is different in certain ways because his normal physique is something in between and the Batman look has him at a considerably higher fat ratio than normally preferred for big movie work.

Gadot probably will fit the Snyder archetype of skinny girls doing CGI stuff just fine. They won't do any jumping around or the more demanding physical stuntwork that the guys in his movies do, but they'll punch stuff by CGI, kneel on stuff to look intense and probably fail the Bechdel test.

[Vengeance]

I think that you guys are missing the point of casting it isn't how thin she is it is how stacked she is. Wonder Women has been portrayed as stacked and tall and thin and stacked.




The question is will Gal Gadot have the good to play Wonder Women to the expectations of all of the fan boys.

[Aptorian]

The truth is that there just doesn't exist a woman that is naturally "stacked" and also looks thin and attractive to the vast majority of movie audience.

This is what an (older, polished in photoshop)Olympic athlete looks like:



That's what I'd imagine Wonder Woman to look like if she wasnt a cartoon. This is something that it takes ars of hard training to achieve. Not a couple of years of aerobics and pilattes.

If you want to see a woman that looks bigger than that and we're heading in to the land of needles and pills.

Can we just have a second to appreciate the true Amazon princess?

This post has been edited by Not Brent Weeks: 06 December 2013 - 02:33 PM

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 06 December 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Gadot probably will fit the Snyder archetype of skinny girls doing CGI stuff just fine. They won't do any jumping around or the more demanding physical stuntwork that the guys in his movies do, but they'll punch stuff by CGI, kneel on stuff to look intense and probably fail the Bechdel test.

I know you're a physical guy and you know your shit when it comes to the building of a body...so I'm going to just defer to your knowledge, while still fully believing she can make this work with some solid training and work.

[QuickTidal]

Not Brent Weeks, on 06 December 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Can we just have a second to appreciate the true Amazon princess?

I would have LOVED Lucy Lawless as WW. That would have been perfection to me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 December 2013 - 03:01 PM