[Kalse]

Line breaks fixed!

I'd also chalk up the discrepancy to Ment's creativity/game balance.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Alkend, on 04 October 2010 - 08:03 PM, said:

Barghast, on 04 October 2010 - 07:43 PM, said:

My best guess is that Silanah was killed because he acted erratically enough to warrant Day 1 votes. The number reason someone does that is, they want to be lynched. So someone may have guessed that Silanah was Jester and blew their load on him.

My tenuous theory on Silanah is that he was killed for possibly signalling - I know when I see any sort of rhymes or poems or meter in Mafia, my first thought is usually "code."

Or maybe someone had a Day One use-it-or-lose-it Vig, and picked a random target.

Even if it was a Day 1 vig only, the game had only been on for 2.5 hours. Of a 36 hour day. Seems like a bad call to just randomly shoot immediately based on a posible code, and a few poor jokes.

[Barghast]

Ampelas, on 04 October 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

Caught up, but a bit swamped at work - checking in quick, should have more time to play properly this evening.

Personally I think Necron is most likely to be cult - they have to eliminate EVERYONE who isn't in their faction. Much easier to achieve a goal like that if you can recruit along the way. Chaos are good candidates too, not sure what a possession would entail, but it could be something culty. We've seen competing cults before, that's a possibility too.

Silanah's death is just odd, but I would think mods would make modkills clear. I agree the scene does look like it was a vig, but there isn't a disclaimer about how true to the game the scenes will be, so I don't think we should be basing assumptions of scene info.

From the wording of the Eldar victory condition it sounds like there must be at least three of them. Are we going to get the type of xeno in the CF? It would be good to know if we have lynched one, since at that point we would have to start playing a lot more carefully.

The rules indicated we'd get that information if "certain conditions were met." Still, I think it's pretty likely Sil was just a townie.

[Barghast]

Korvalain, on 04 October 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

:: narrows eyes at barghast ::

to much use of the word our... i think ur a xeno....

Cool, so I can't speak on behalf of the town? Should I use the pronoun "I" more to avoid your scrutinizing eye?.

[Barghast]

Kalse, on 04 October 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

OK, I'm now around. First off, I see there's been a kill already? Certainly sounded like a Commissar taking care of an unruly unit - though how the hell a Commissar would survive shooting a Space Marine, I don't know, lol. That being said, the Ordo Malleus report says 'I sent in...' - 'I'. That means the Vindicare Assassin who is making the observations of this planet. So he didn't kill the player, just retrieved the body.

Also, the Eldar as Jesters thing is a bit of a problem, but I don't think we should worry about it too much on day one. Unless they only have a couple of members, it should be hard to consistently lynch them, while none of them get killed via actions.

Chaos is going to be quite hard to stomp out. They win at faction size draw, or when they have made five recruits. WCS is a day and night recruit ability, in which case it's day 3 victory for them. Note. Performed possessions. That means it doesn't matter if their recruits die. :S Potentially therefore they only recruit on day OR night - but given we've already had a day kill, this feels like it could be a very fast game.

Tyranids have an interesting win condition. It implies recruitment (50% +1) - that could be hard to achieve if it's just survival. Though Tyranids are tough bastards, they could have significant starting numbers or protections.

Necrons have basically the same objective as the Imperium. Elimination. How they go about that, of course, could be quite different, but generally speaking the Necrons are a race of pure destruction, so I doubt they have much in the way of recruiting or other abilities. Lots of kills and/or BP's though (as they are undead and can rebuild themselves when destroyed).

Based on this, the top threats to me are the Eldar, because we can't just lynch them (it seems), and the Chaos. Both of them have dual achievable conditions, which is going to make them hard to stamp out. Humans are feeling really outmatched, I think. XD


EDIT: To try and add line breaks...

Sounds like you have some WH40K info, so that's semi useful. And I agree, I thought it was obvious that it was the narrator talking about retrieving the body, not actually killing him.

Really, as much as we don't want to lynch an Eldar, it's poor play to just not lynch. If there are 3 of them, it's going to be hard enough for them to survive stuff like NKs, recruitment (if they aren't immune), etc. They are a big faction to worry about, but we shouldn't be sniffing under rocks for them until we have some confirmation that they are in the lead.

Town's gonna have a really tough time in this one simply because the more we go after one faction, the stronger the other ones become. In a sense, the Necrons are almost the least worrisome faction because they can't win until everyone is dead... the other factions can win with majorities, or other special conditions. In a weird way, Necrons are borderline allied with the town right now.

[Rashan]

Kalse, on 04 October 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

OK, I'm now around. First off, I see there's been a kill already? Certainly sounded like a Commissar taking care of an unruly unit - though how the hell a Commissar would survive shooting a Space Marine, I don't know, lol. That being said, the Ordo Malleus report says 'I sent in...' - 'I'. That means the Vindicare Assassin who is making the observations of this planet. So he didn't kill the player, just retrieved the body.

Also, the Eldar as Jesters thing is a bit of a problem, but I don't think we should worry about it too much on day one. Unless they only have a couple of members, it should be hard to consistently lynch them, while none of them get killed via actions.

Chaos is going to be quite hard to stomp out. They win at faction size draw, or when they have made five recruits. WCS is a day and night recruit ability, in which case it's day 3 victory for them. Note. Performed possessions. That means it doesn't matter if their recruits die. :S Potentially therefore they only recruit on day OR night - but given we've already had a day kill, this feels like it could be a very fast game.

Tyranids have an interesting win condition. It implies recruitment (50% +1) - that could be hard to achieve if it's just survival. Though Tyranids are tough bastards, they could have significant starting numbers or protections.

Necrons have basically the same objective as the Imperium. Elimination. How they go about that, of course, could be quite different, but generally speaking the Necrons are a race of pure destruction, so I doubt they have much in the way of recruiting or other abilities. Lots of kills and/or BP's though (as they are undead and can rebuild themselves when destroyed).

Based on this, the top threats to me are the Eldar, because we can't just lynch them (it seems), and the Chaos. Both of them have dual achievable conditions, which is going to make them hard to stamp out. Humans are feeling really outmatched, I think. XD


EDIT: To try and add line breaks...

Just finished rereading the thread, and googling a couple of things, and while I agree with much of this I disagree on a couple bits.

I doubt the Chaos have recruiting powers. The wording in the rules is possessions, which suggests FM. The no player name CF strongly suggests there are FM in the game, and they seem the best fit. Assuming two Chaos players, which is reasonable for the game size, the earliest they could win is day six.

That leaves the tyranids as the cult, and the most immediate threat.

[Alkend]

Barghast, on 04 October 2010 - 10:33 PM, said:

Town's gonna have a really tough time in this one simply because the more we go after one faction, the stronger the other ones become. In a sense, the Necrons are almost the least worrisome faction because they can't win until everyone is dead... the other factions can win with majorities, or other special conditions. In a weird way, Necrons are borderline allied with the town right now.

That's ... not a particularly appropriate Inno mindset.

[Rashan]

But it does make sense. Unless we have a lot of vigs out there, the necrons are probably our best bet to take out the Eldar, and they need the Tyranids and Chaos dead as soon as we do. In essence, this is close to being a faction game, just with one large faction whose members likely have few abilites.

[Galayn Lord]

Hello all. Checking in here! Will go read up whats gone on so far.

[Rashan]

Anyone else care to lurk? I mean there are four of us now, somebody must have something to say. Finished reading up Galayn? Willing to admit that thinking on the lines of a standard town versus scum game is unlikely to bring town the win Alk? Anyone?

[Rashan]

Maybe I'll point out a few things then. This post is crap:

Osseric, on 04 October 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Hey folks. Just checking in.

Looked like a vig kill to me. Also looked like it could have been Rashan or Liosan that was the culprit. They both pop on with their first post, and then someone ends up dead. That seems fishy.

Who cares if it is fishy? You are accusing lio and I of being town. Damn, don't know about Lio, but you've got me pegged.

Liosan, on 04 October 2010 - 05:38 PM, said:

Osseric, on 04 October 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Hey folks. Just checking in.

Looked like a vig kill to me. Also looked like it could have been Rashan or Liosan that was the culprit. They both pop on with their first post, and then someone ends up dead. That seems fishy.

Well that looks like some great detective work right there Osseric. People who make there first post on the first day are obviously the ones who day killed someone. You should work for Scotland yard or MI5.

I think that you are as likely suspect as either me or Rashan. Your first post is accusatory and looks to be setting up possible future lynches. See I can be a detective too.

And Lio defends? WTF is that? He accused you of being a town member who vigged too early. Why are you defending yourself against that? I can only assume you are scum from that post.

More coming, maybe someone else will care to join in the convo by then.

[Barghast]

Hey all, just checking in. Gonna retire shortly, I see not much else has happened but I'm glad Rashan is bright enough to realize that this isn't going to be won by town on its own.

I put my numbers at around 8 Town to start, with 2 Chaos, 2 Necrons, 3 Eldar, and 3 Tyranids. Could be slightly off but that's got to be really close to the break-down.

So Town is already outnumbered and if you consider the cult(s?), it is more or less imperative to figure out which scum factions are the more likely to work with town in a limited fashion. If you consider Eldar jester abilties and Tyranid presumed recruitment, then both are 100% counters to the town faction. Town usually has its vote as its strength (and apparently poorly used vigs), and Eldar can use that vote to its advantage, while Tyranids (again, presumedly) can drift the vote count in its favor.

Necrons and Chaos are definitely not on our side, but they're not a "hard" counter to the town faction, either. The only reason I pick Necrons over Chaos as an improbable temporary ally is that Chaos doesn't really need town to win. Five Possessions, to me, says that the less we lynch, the more places the Chaos can hide as FM(s?).

On the other hand, Necrons can't really let any one faction get too big because all of the other scum factions can win at 50%+1. Ergo, Necrons and Town are pseudo-allies.

Now, if we can out a Necron, we lynch him, no doubt about it. But if we have a choice between Necron and someone else, I'd have to look at the other option. That's all I'm saying.

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on 04 October 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

Caught up, but a bit swamped at work - checking in quick, should have more time to play properly this evening.

Personally I think Necron is most likely to be cult - they have to eliminate EVERYONE who isn't in their faction. Much easier to achieve a goal like that if you can recruit along the way. Chaos are good candidates too, not sure what a possession would entail, but it could be something culty. We've seen competing cults before, that's a possibility too.

Silanah's death is just odd, but I would think mods would make modkills clear. I agree the scene does look like it was a vig, but there isn't a disclaimer about how true to the game the scenes will be, so I don't think we should be basing assumptions of scene info.

From the wording of the Eldar victory condition it sounds like there must be at least three of them. Are we going to get the type of xeno in the CF? It would be good to know if we have lynched one, since at that point we would have to start playing a lot more carefully.

I can only believe this is deliberately obtuse. How on earth does eliminating all life (as per the OP) mesh at all with attracting followers? When was the last time a cult had to kill everyone else?

[Meanas]

Remove vote

I really need to be less trigger-happy. Makes me suck at poker, too.

In any case, that's some nice analyzing up there, Kalse.

Also, I do think that Space Marines still fall under the Inquisition, and through them - Vindicare Assassins.

[Kalse]

Barghast, on 04 October 2010 - 10:33 PM, said:

Kalse, on 04 October 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

OK, I'm now around. First off, I see there's been a kill already? Certainly sounded like a Commissar taking care of an unruly unit - though how the hell a Commissar would survive shooting a Space Marine, I don't know, lol. That being said, the Ordo Malleus report says 'I sent in...' - 'I'. That means the Vindicare Assassin who is making the observations of this planet. So he didn't kill the player, just retrieved the body.

Also, the Eldar as Jesters thing is a bit of a problem, but I don't think we should worry about it too much on day one. Unless they only have a couple of members, it should be hard to consistently lynch them, while none of them get killed via actions.

Chaos is going to be quite hard to stomp out. They win at faction size draw, or when they have made five recruits. WCS is a day and night recruit ability, in which case it's day 3 victory for them. Note. Performed possessions. That means it doesn't matter if their recruits die. :S Potentially therefore they only recruit on day OR night - but given we've already had a day kill, this feels like it could be a very fast game.

Tyranids have an interesting win condition. It implies recruitment (50% +1) - that could be hard to achieve if it's just survival. Though Tyranids are tough bastards, they could have significant starting numbers or protections.

Necrons have basically the same objective as the Imperium. Elimination. How they go about that, of course, could be quite different, but generally speaking the Necrons are a race of pure destruction, so I doubt they have much in the way of recruiting or other abilities. Lots of kills and/or BP's though (as they are undead and can rebuild themselves when destroyed).

Based on this, the top threats to me are the Eldar, because we can't just lynch them (it seems), and the Chaos. Both of them have dual achievable conditions, which is going to make them hard to stamp out. Humans are feeling really outmatched, I think. XD


EDIT: To try and add line breaks...

Sounds like you have some WH40K info, so that's semi useful. And I agree, I thought it was obvious that it was the narrator talking about retrieving the body, not actually killing him.

Really, as much as we don't want to lynch an Eldar, it's poor play to just not lynch. If there are 3 of them, it's going to be hard enough for them to survive stuff like NKs, recruitment (if they aren't immune), etc. They are a big faction to worry about, but we shouldn't be sniffing under rocks for them until we have some confirmation that they are in the lead.

Town's gonna have a really tough time in this one simply because the more we go after one faction, the stronger the other ones become. In a sense, the Necrons are almost the least worrisome faction because they can't win until everyone is dead... the other factions can win with majorities, or other special conditions. In a weird way, Necrons are borderline allied with the town right now.

I have a bit. It's not really my thing, but I do like the stories and the setting.

I agree with your take on the Eldar. I think the problem with the Necron thing is that they need to eliminate everyone, as we do. While this works in principle, at some point someone is going to need to go cross-ways, so it's not like we can rely on them to do our work for us, or vice versa. After all, our VC's are mutually exclusive. What we *can* count on is that the Necrons will be wanting to bring down our enemies too, and this could be helpful. (I figure this is what you're saying...but "borderline allies" is hardly the same thing ).

Rashan, on 05 October 2010 - 01:27 AM, said:

Kalse, on 04 October 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

OK, I'm now around. First off, I see there's been a kill already? Certainly sounded like a Commissar taking care of an unruly unit - though how the hell a Commissar would survive shooting a Space Marine, I don't know, lol. That being said, the Ordo Malleus report says 'I sent in...' - 'I'. That means the Vindicare Assassin who is making the observations of this planet. So he didn't kill the player, just retrieved the body.

Also, the Eldar as Jesters thing is a bit of a problem, but I don't think we should worry about it too much on day one. Unless they only have a couple of members, it should be hard to consistently lynch them, while none of them get killed via actions.

Chaos is going to be quite hard to stomp out. They win at faction size draw, or when they have made five recruits. WCS is a day and night recruit ability, in which case it's day 3 victory for them. Note. Performed possessions. That means it doesn't matter if their recruits die. :S Potentially therefore they only recruit on day OR night - but given we've already had a day kill, this feels like it could be a very fast game.

Tyranids have an interesting win condition. It implies recruitment (50% +1) - that could be hard to achieve if it's just survival. Though Tyranids are tough bastards, they could have significant starting numbers or protections.

Necrons have basically the same objective as the Imperium. Elimination. How they go about that, of course, could be quite different, but generally speaking the Necrons are a race of pure destruction, so I doubt they have much in the way of recruiting or other abilities. Lots of kills and/or BP's though (as they are undead and can rebuild themselves when destroyed).

Based on this, the top threats to me are the Eldar, because we can't just lynch them (it seems), and the Chaos. Both of them have dual achievable conditions, which is going to make them hard to stamp out. Humans are feeling really outmatched, I think. XD


EDIT: To try and add line breaks...

Just finished rereading the thread, and googling a couple of things, and while I agree with much of this I disagree on a couple bits.

I doubt the Chaos have recruiting powers. The wording in the rules is possessions, which suggests FM. The no player name CF strongly suggests there are FM in the game, and they seem the best fit. Assuming two Chaos players, which is reasonable for the game size, the earliest they could win is day six.

That leaves the tyranids as the cult, and the most immediate threat.

Chaos converts form a majority of the Human-based storyline. After all, it was through conversion (recruitment) that the Chaos Gods got half of the Space Marines to turn into Chaos Space Marines. I agree that 'Possession', as it stands, is not very cult-like - it would imply a demon, which *would* be a FM. But it could go either way going purely on lore...I think I'm leaning to FM though...

Tyranids have the Genestealer Cult, which I believe may have been referenced in the opening flavour, in which case you're definitely correct.

We also need to consider the problem here: you cannot even hint at being xeno. So we have no 'outing' bar find abilities or slips. No-one is going to claim any faction other than town.

[Tellan]

I have to say I cant wrap my head around the early vig. There are not any noobs playing, so I'm wondering if it was a game mech. Other wise I wonder if the rust has settled in to some of the people who have been absent from recent games.

[Kalse]

Gothos is new.

Some of the names in the list are still 'new' to me, and some others are from different places. We don't know the circumstances of the vig, the role that gave it, or the capabilities of the scum factions to really speculate further than 'wtf was that?', imo...

[Galayn Lord]

Sorry, at work and shit comes up I have to deal with. Managed to catch up now.

Have to say that the Vig is pretty disappointing play. Even if its some sort of forced Day 1 Vig, using it 2 hours into the day is silly stuff.

Lots of other stuff has happened so far as well, a pleasant surprise. Meanas got my attention as I was reading up. Who votes for someone on the suspicion they are a Jester? And then when asked about it decides not to say anything. Normally I'd call that pretty weird, but in this game I'm rather wary of voting someone off. If there are 3 Eldar its only 2 unlucky lynches for us and they win. And Meanas strikes me as a likely Eldar candidate. As the person who he was voting for (was is Olar?). That would presume they know each other of course so its a bit tentative there.

Other thing I like is what Rashan just brought up. I completely missed it on first read of the post from Osseric but I find it strange that someone wants to out people as Town.
Yes there was a Vig and it wasn't a great Vig but it came from the Town so why would you want to try and hunt down who did it? Outing people as Town is just going to put a huge target on their backs during the Night and is completely counter productive.

Be interested to hear from Osseric and Liosan there. Luckily we got oodles of time with the 36 hour days.

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 05 October 2010 - 04:41 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 04 October 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

Caught up, but a bit swamped at work - checking in quick, should have more time to play properly this evening.

Personally I think Necron is most likely to be cult - they have to eliminate EVERYONE who isn't in their faction. Much easier to achieve a goal like that if you can recruit along the way. Chaos are good candidates too, not sure what a possession would entail, but it could be something culty. We've seen competing cults before, that's a possibility too.

Silanah's death is just odd, but I would think mods would make modkills clear. I agree the scene does look like it was a vig, but there isn't a disclaimer about how true to the game the scenes will be, so I don't think we should be basing assumptions of scene info.

From the wording of the Eldar victory condition it sounds like there must be at least three of them. Are we going to get the type of xeno in the CF? It would be good to know if we have lynched one, since at that point we would have to start playing a lot more carefully.

I can only believe this is deliberately obtuse. How on earth does eliminating all life (as per the OP) mesh at all with attracting followers? When was the last time a cult had to kill everyone else?

When was the last time any non-town faction had to kill everyone else? My logic is this, although noone else on the thread is thinking the same way:

Town's objective is to eliminate everyone, since they have the numbers to do so. Scum normally just have to acheive majority, since they start off with much less people. Now in this game the Tyrranid win mechanic is basically a fancily worded way of saying they have to acheive majority. The Necros on the other hand have a town-like winning condition - eliminate all other factions. This would imply one of three things. That the necros started with a faction with a similar size and power to town, that the necros are a small group of incredibly powerful roles with lots of survival and kills, or that the necros have the ability to gain the voting block they need to eliminate all other factions. The last one would mean cult.

If there is stuff in the Warhammer cannon that would indicate otherwise let me know, I'm only looking at the win conditions here. Tyrannid win conditions indicate normallish scum, Eldar indicate a likely small and tough survival-focused faction, Chaos could be cult but the suggestions of FMs would most likely apply to them. Which leaves Necros as either as cult, or having a similar setup as town. If they did start as similar to town, then Tyrannid would be the best candidate for cult.

Why are we so sure that Silanah's death was caused by town? The wall'o'text rules say there are no clues in morning and evening scenes. Nothing is stated about day scenes, but I think making assumptions about behind the scenes actions based on the mods' creative license is not a good idea.

[Path-Shaper]

you do indeed. about 17 hours left, actually.

it is Day 1. 6 hours have passed, so i'm assuming that...29 hours and 50 minutes left.

17 people are still alive (Alkend, Ampelas, Barghast, D'riss , Eloth, Galayn Lord, Korvalain, Kalse, Karatallid, LIosan, Meanas, Osseric, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Sukul Ankhadu, Tellan, Tulas Shorn)

takes 9 votes to lynch, 0r 9 to go to night

1 vote for Liosan (Olar Ethil)
1 vote for Alkend (Korvalain)
1 vote for Osseric (Liosan)
1 vote for Korvalain (Tellan)

Most people (13) have not voted (Alkend, Ampelas, Barghast, D'riss , Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kalse, Karatallid, Meanas, Osseric, Rashan, Sukul Ankhadu, Tulas Shorn)

i'll be going to bed soon, But Tapper should be awakening to watch you guys.

those who need to, remeber to give us provisionals--no one likes a long night...
-ment