[Kalse]

GL played it smart in distancing, but I'm not sure if he realised how large our faction was going to be. If he'd stuck with me, sure he would be aligning to scum, but it was a risk he probably should have taken.

Bargy, I'm assuming, didn't know I was recruited. If he did, then fuck that is terrible play. :S

[Path-Shaper]

granted, PB's pms are so numerous it's easy to lose his train of thought.

but i'm fairly sure at one point or another he realized that you were symping GL hard.

sure made it confusing to have you both get recruited on same night.....

[Kalse]

Path-Shaper, on 07 October 2010 - 10:09 PM, said:

Meanas, on 07 October 2010 - 08:38 PM, said:

Aye I've been told to only visit on alt.
Anyway, seeing this here is VERY informative. I've obviously badly failed on my first game, in a very, very embarrasing way. Should've checked the unwritten rules beforehand, and I got what I deserved.
I still have to say I'm not completely satisfied with the game, in particular players' attitudes. It's like this so OH SO SERIOUS BUISNESS. Why all the swearing and rage? I thought this would be more civilized.
In any case, I'll keep reading this in real time as much as possible. Re-reading old threads doesn't quite cut it.

It's a pity my first game was the war40k one, unlikely the next one will be as well.

Heya Gothos, drunk me disagrees on you failing.
I think you played well, and the downfall only came because of two things, both unwritten:
1) you can lurk, but you are never to actually say you'll lurk;
2) you defended yourself too vigorously early game, which made you seem as if you had something to hide.

One: never do that again, or at the least, never admit doing it

Two: this is a very fine line, and easy to get wrong. People who played 20-30 games still get it wrong (and that includes me), but here's the basics: people will jump on you if you take accusations too seriously, especially when they come from only one or two players (unless you can alt them as dibs, morghy or JA, time will tell you who they are).
Never defend against dkt unless people jump on the bandwagon (he'll skin you on anything and few of it is related to the actual game, it is a very special skill and he's king of it). Otherwise, just give people the finger. Defend against 2-3 people accusing you, but never per quote. Instead, post condescendingly and tell them they are small dicked brainless neanderthalers, without actually saying that... instead, make them read it between the lines.
Some will react better to it than others do, but believe me, it makes life in mafia easier.

You simply stepped in on an insanely difficult game (I'd say only dibs, morghy, d'rek, pb and myself are capable of concocting anything like this game, all of us with varying degrees of success) and did well, as far as I am concerned.
Since I can claim I know the bigger picture, I'll tell you I am 100% right, and fuck all who disagree.

Finally, there are several types of players.
Intuitive guys, like Morghy, dkt, Silencer (when scum) and dibs feel out the scum or heavy opposition and weed them out. They are far too often right.

PB, D'rek, Bubba and to some degree myself are analysts, we try and sort the game out to the way we'd run it if we're mods, and sort out people according to those roles. We're often wrong, but in the wrongness, there is always some right. I'd currently name D'rek as the best of us, together with PB. Gavin deserves a mention here as well, you'll never see as much content as in his (few) posts.

Vengy, Bent, Silencer (yeah, twice), are great scum. they know how to play people and make them believe.

The rest of us falls somewhere in between, and don't believe they are any less dangerous because they aren't named. Alt146, Gem, Grief, name anyone else... they're all frickin' dangerous in their own way, and can play more than one role.

And that's enough for now
But if you continue to play, and I hope you will, you'll learn to recognize who is who and who plays how, and will be someone to be reckoned with in no-time.

So, please stay around and play more, if you feel like it. Mafia is SRIUS BIZNIZZ (yeah, it is... and tempers flare because we all want to be competitive) but also a friendly bunch for the insiders. None of it is personal, except the feuds, and I dare say, the feuds are existing because of massive respect rather than hatred, never mind the language.

- Tapper

*preens* Yes, yes I did get mentioned twice in here. Lol.

I definitely play better as scum nine times out of ten, though. I'm not sure whether I just get disinterested as town, or whether it's a flaw in my playing style, but I play better when I'm cult/killer...even symp, which is basically the role I got in this game once I was recruited.

I would have been OK as town in this game, though, as I would have been able to draw kills and lynches and survive. Much more interesting role for me, and easy to rely on some protections early on, which is normally where I lose out. I even adopted a low-post for days 1 through 3, then come out guns blazing style for a long time there. It actually worked out really well as a killer, as it usually takes up to day 3 for people to talk of offing low posters.

And I can vouch for the 'feuds' being good natured. The only one that went 'sour' was q21 getting killed night one every game (long time ago), and that was as much a product of misfortune as it was deliberate. Ment and I had a thing going for a while, and that was all in good fun.

In fact, we haven't had any good feuds lately. At least not that I'm aware of. Whatever happened to that? Used to be reasonably common...

I also have to second the fact that not being on Tapper's little list up there is not a mark that the unmentioned are bad players. If anything, they are more dangerous because they don't have a box, or haven't been pinned down in one category - they are their own style, and so have much impact on a game when they play. Gem particularly comes to mind for her tenacity, but that's just an example of why not being talked about isn't bad.

I picked you out early on, and unlike some of the players I knew that we had newbies in the game. That being said, voting night is not always a bad thing. Half the time players will silently agree with the decision while ripping on you in-thread. It comes down to presenting a reasonable case in defense of the idea, and hoping that people aren't just going to pick it as a lynching aide. It's worse to do on day one, but in general you're safer not mentioning it.

I also pride myself on going toe-to-toe with Dibs/dkt/JA on several occasions and sometimes pulling an inversion on the bastards, but Tapper is right when he says it's a bad idea to pick a fight with them by yourself on thread. Unless you have a LOT of time and determination, and even then it's 60/40 in their favour, lol!

On the raging...it's not what it seems like. If we didn't have fights, nothing would ever get done. You can play a 'civil' game but then it ends up being really slow and dull, and comes down to lynching luck. Usually plays right into scum hands, as without pressure they don't make slips. We do have rules against personal attacks, however. Generally going beyond calling someone's IDEA stupid, and calling THEM stupid is about the limit at which most mods draw the line...but it does have to be taken poorly by the receiving player to matter.
If you think someone has delivered an actual personal insult to you, rather than your play style or ideas, take it to the mods.

Meanas, on 08 October 2010 - 06:11 AM, said:

Well, I still got lynched on Day 2, all the way distracting my own team from their enemies. Smart players seem to have used it well - look at the Necron, most people are convinced he's inno, maybe partly due to me being inno. Nobody's on to the Eldar. Alkend strikes me as unbelievably selfish. It's like he just wants to survive himself till the last day when his faction will lose and he doesn't care.
At least Bent did worse this game.
Consider Day 1 and Day 2 votes - both would've been null and void if we went through with lynching Galayn Lord - I'm curious as to what would that make this next day now.

My fail with the night vote got everyone so tunnel-visioned, it's seriously surprising to this little flexibility from people with quite the brain power.

It'll take me a while to put names to styles, but I do see tha a few of the people you mentioned aren't in the game officially - double alts, really? Why? Who's who? It's mostly the names I don't recognize that seem to be the most disrespectful and foulmouthed of the lot. Anonymity in play? What's that all about?


Lastly, with the amount of protection, this looks like it could go on a full two weeks. And I'll be watching.


PS. Might I add, town seems grossly underpowered in this game. Or is it always like this? With posessions and recruitment and lack of almost any information, town will be running in circles chasing our own tails. Hell, my own squad leader was the first one to vote on me Day 2. That hurts!

Haha, town is often uninformed. Rarely will unpaired townies know each other in a two-way. Hence the vote for you, even though you knew your leader. It just doesn't necessarily go the other way.

Also, in faction games it often does feel like town doesn't have a chance. That's just how the balance seems to come out. But in a normal game, it is usually quite even between town and scum. Or even in some of the more complex games that don't have four factions, lol.

Unless, of course, the role draw shafts one team. It can happen, and I recall a couple of games where I was scum with a newer player as partner. I just picked out the strong players on town, killed them, and we sailed home to victory. Conversely, there have been times when it's been pretty much certain that town will win from a lucky day one lynch, a reveal fest, or simple scum mishaps. Usually it comes down to the wire, however...

We hardly ever have games that last actual two weeks. Well, at least they don't feel like it. Once you're dead time probably moves at a more normal pace, lol. But usually a week is the length of a large game. Four days for a mini due to mod/player activity. Can get quite long though.

The night voting thing is an unfortunate sore point for us. As I mentioned above, you can get away with it...but it's better not to suggest it if you can help it. And people will jump on anything to get a lynch day one. We are really struggling to do that lately. Didn't help that I wanted a lynch so we could get the full CF.

And people can use anything to their advantage. It just comes down to who makes use of what, and how. Eventually you run out of things to use (normally) and so it works out in the end. Just gives a longer run than would have otherwise happened.
Be prepared to have your death, your posts, your (alt) life, all poured over and analysed for days. Anything can be used. And it will be. Don't take it too hard - instead, learn to do it yourself, and do it to others, lol.

Anyway, that's it from me. You played a much better game than you give yourself credit for. This was a tough one to walk into like I said it would be, and you did yourself proud. Most newbies make those mistakes in a normal game, but you nearly managed to salvage yourself in a tough one. If you keep at it, you'll be a great player!

(Also, I totally understand being put off by certain themes. It's OK to sit games out, but sometimes they can be fun despite the theme, or even if they have no theme. )

[Path-Shaper]

I really gotta hand it to korv, he's playing a really cool game

Korvalain, on 13 October 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

sorry i was asleep
can i do a provisional?


kill eloth, unless someone already kills him, in which case kill barghast

if i cant do a provisional then just attack eloth

can't have a conditional kill.

and noted.
-ment

so as the result of the night

Osseric learns that GL is xeno. and dies

Alkend is recruited

Ampelas preps GL
Tellan preps Rashan

Eloth loses a BP (1 left)

-ment

[Path-Shaper]

I'll let the clock run for another 20-odd minutes and start day at 6 PM.
-ment

[Kalse]

Path-Shaper, on 13 October 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

granted, PB's pms are so numerous it's easy to lose his train of thought.

but i'm fairly sure at one point or another he realized that you were symping GL hard.

sure made it confusing to have you both get recruited on same night.....

I thought he'd figured me as not Tyranid. But yes, he does bombard you with PMs, lol.

And you can't have conditionals? D: What sort of game is this?!??!! XD

[Path-Shaper]

not the kind of "if X is targetted for a kill, I'd rather kill Y"

come on, now.....

also, thoughts on the setup?

-ment

[Kalse]

Man, what's with all the code crap? Alkend must surely realise that anyone can shop that picture to look mostly normal, and if they do, HE WILL BE DEAD SO CAN'T POINT OUT FLAWS.

Bargy had the best idea. But if he got taken over someone could just create a NEW encrypted file and link to that with any vaguely relevant message encrypted.

He should have linked to the file now so no-one can change what they're looking at.

I also like Osseric's "very easy cipher". Great, I hope he's being sarcastic.



Codes are great, but you have to allow for people fucking them around - three ways to screw those codes over in this post alone, and if I was playing, was an FM, and was jumping into one of them I'd be working my balls off on breaking them right now. And pretend to be offline until I had got it. *sigh*

[Kalse]

Path-Shaper, on 13 October 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

not the kind of "if X is targetted for a kill, I'd rather kill Y"

come on, now.....

also, thoughts on the setup?

-ment

Yeah, I'll admit I didn't read Eloth's PM properly. Just saw it in the 'latest replies' part of the 'add reply' box. That's a ridiculous conditional. Who's behind Eloth, btw? XD

Thoughts on setup: well balanced. Gothos was right about town being a bit underpowered, but it may only seem that way due to some funky-lucky recruits and town-propagated messups on the first couple of days.

Much as I wish I'd kept my lynch BP rather than my NK BP, it was done the right way around, lol.

I'll comment in more detail later (once I've gone over the info-dump that is page one) because I'm going to friend's place now.

But it works out well. Love the theme. It's going to be an interesting finish!

[Path-Shaper]

Barghast, on 13 October 2010 - 11:10 PM, said:

We've got to be close... I don't think Osseric was a FM, so that faction isn't doing well. If we have 4 that would be keen, if we only have 3, still pretty good.

Barghast, on 13 October 2010 - 11:26 PM, said:

To Osseric, good job man. You played a solid game. Sorry it couldn't work out for ya.

To the world, now, do I immediately try to lynch Eloth with Osseric gone? Is it a frame job?

[Path-Shaper]

also, Eloth wants to kill Korv
Since Korv has only 1 bp left, bypassing a BP would kill him.

which, in turn, would pretty much guarantee an Eldar victory, unnless they lynch him twice in a row.

or unless cult gets there first.

I must say, this was a very unlucky game for the FMs. they plyed it great, but they've had no luck with actions. can't chalk that one up to failure to balance, I don't think.

-ment

[Path-Shaper]

also, Eloth wants clarification:

Eloth, on 13 October 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

Also you say he Eldar wins with 4 players left, but in the rules it says 5?

the 5 player rule applied to the original Harlequins.

I will take up the issue with Tapper, when he's around.

it's 4 for now, untill we get back to you.

-ment

Tapper, what do you say?
should we make it 5 or keep it 4?

-ment

[Path-Shaper]

you know, I just realized that Gwynn (Rashan) is the last human left.

I'm seriously tempted to give him a lynch BP just for the shits and giggles.

-ment

[Path-Shaper]

Tellan, on 14 October 2010 - 01:33 AM, said:

I have ask PS are you going to allow the codes?

erm, yah, i shoould say somehting, shouldn't I....

i'll consult Tapper.
-ment

so, should we allow them to keep doing the coding thingy?

-ment

[Kalse]

Just imo, the codes are stupid, but they're legit. Coding has always been an option to innos to prove they are partnered, and I don't see any reason to prevent them from coding - especially after you let them do it once - to show they are not an FM. What I would recommend is that in future games we specify if coding is allowed or not. Obviously that would only really be a consideration in the case of a game with FMs, as otherwise there is no reason to avoid it. But for now, precedence suggests you keep allowing it.

And the lynch BP...that would be funny, but unlike CFUM you probably shouldn't change abilities mid-game without some established pre-game ruling. Once again, just imo...my two cents if you want them. XD

[Path-Shaper]

Galayn Lord, on 14 October 2010 - 04:19 AM, said:

Man we could have won that yesterday. I left before I saw Alkends post and vote! And now he looks like a cult member and I just recruited him..

I am completely unconvinced we have FMs at this point and Chaos also recruit as well. The kills can all be accounted for by a Necron killer and the kills I dished out so I'm not sure there are any FM movements at all.

I wonder if Barghast has switched sides. Kalse was the correct lynch, it was obvious but strangely Rashan, Alkend and Korv had have been convinced to vote Osseric. If me and Barghast had jumped onboard we could have lynched the Finder and won! Presuming Barghast is still with me of course.

Rashan has had my back all game, if my role didn't say I was the sole survivor I'd think he was on my team... I think he might make a good lynch today. Either me or him and I get a successful recruit and it should be a glorious win! Or a sad hardly ever posting win really.

hindsight's a bitch, ain't it?

seriously, when I saw that pileup on Osseric this morning, I expected a smooth ride for the 'nids.

and if the scum end up lynching the last townie, that will be just sad.

otoh, it will mean the FM jumping tonight will be Ampelas. GL will get FM-ed, which in light of his last PM would also be the height of irony...

hehe.

[Path-Shaper]

what was teh CFUM game all about?
it happened during my work-related Mafia hiatus, so I haven't followed that game at all.

[Kalse]

It stood for: Crazy Fucked Up Mechanics. Aka, Silencer fucks with everybody! XD

I just made as many different roles as possible, about 7/8 of the players had second, 'puppet' alts to make it last longer and be more crazy, I awarded powers for good play, etc.

It was pretty fucked up. Unfortunately, I got busy halfway through, and PB disappeared early on because he couldn't actually make calls - I don't blame him for that, it was madness - and he got busy too, so the final days weren't as awesome as they could have been.



And when I saw that pileup on Osseric, I knew I was dead, but I was wondering exactly how it turned around. Dammit, my own team betrayed me! XD

[Tapper]

Path-Shaper, on 14 October 2010 - 12:17 AM, said:

also, Eloth wants clarification:

Eloth, on 13 October 2010 - 11:24 PM, said:

Also you say he Eldar wins with 4 players left, but in the rules it says 5?

the 5 player rule applied to the original Harlequins.

I will take up the issue with Tapper, when he's around.

it's 4 for now, untill we get back to you.

-ment

Tapper, what do you say?
should we make it 5 or keep it 4?

-ment

keep it at 4, that's what you said

[Tapper]

As for the coding thing... I think a ruling on the spot now would be kinda tough. On the other hand, it completely disables the FMs, who played quite well so far and who deserve a shot at victory, so I'd rule against the coding.