[Gothos]

So, I've just ran into another story about a matador getting skewered by a bull during corrida, and I find myself unable to feel any sympathy for the bastard. If it's supposed to be a fight to the death, the matador deserves everything coming his way, death included. I'm kinda expecting most people to agree, but I'm curious if someone has a peculiar PoV that somehow excuses them.

So I ask: do they deserve pity when taken on the horns or trampled?

[Vengeance]

Well when you consider that they have a tendency to drug the Bulls before the fight. Fair is fair if it is to be a match to the death then both parties should have equal opportunity.

[champ]

fairs fair end of the day the way i look at it, if there out to kill the bull, the bull deserves every chance to get em back!

Could you imagine it back in the day with Roman Gladiators, Gladiator A allowed to kill but Gladiator B not allowed...

[Astra]

No pity.
Cruel show to satiate bloodthirsty crowd. Probably the same bunch that would enjoy gladiators killing each other.

P.S. it comes from a person who doesn't care much about animals and despises green guys.

[hmqb]

Wait shit! I read it wrong, pleaseingore the vote for yes

[SalokinX]

From what I understand, the bull starts the "fight" already injured, bloodied and in pain.

I think that anyone who is low enough to harm a weakened animal should have his balls cut off and sewed in place of his eyes. I am very, VERY against this kind of "sport" because it is simply stupid.

Put a bull in perfect condition and in good health with one of these "matador"s naked in a cage and let them have it, then I want to see who's the REAL matador.

[Traveller]

It's killing for the sake of entertainment. No defence for it, imo.

Poor treatment of animals used for food is a problem, but it least they're reared for a reason - very little goes to waste these days. Bulls are reared to die in the arena, and that's it.

On such as unfair playing field, I reckon the matador deserves any damage the bull can inflict on his way out.

It annoys me in the same way that western 'hunters' pay large sums in Africa to shoot animals. They call it hunting, but they actually just sit in a hide next to a waterhole, shoot large antelope and such from about 10 feet away, and then have photos taken next to the corpse, saying 'what a beautiful animal.'

Well, it was, until you shot it.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 June 2010 - 03:53 PM

[Tapper]

SalokinX, on 08 June 2010 - 03:32 PM, said:

From what I understand, the bull starts the "fight" already injured, bloodied and in pain.

I think that anyone who is low enough to harm a weakened animal should have his balls cut off and sewed in place of his eyes. I am very, VERY against this kind of "sport" because it is simply stupid.

Put a bull in perfect condition and in good health with one of these "matador"s naked in a cage and let them have it, then I want to see who's the REAL matador.

Ehm, no.
A bull fight is built up in stages. You confuse the entire procedure (in which the bull does get wounded) with the final stage, in which the torero faces the wounded bull one on one. The whole of it is the bull fight.

here's a short introduction into spanish bull fighting.
First, the bull (who may or may not be drugged) is played with by the torero with the cape.
Then the bull is wounded, by horsemen with lances. This may or may not be to tire him, but is mainly done to weaken the neck muscles, forcing the bulls head down and make him more predictable. The bull is then in the second stage further enraged by men putting short barbed sticks into the shoulders. Then, the third stage is torero against bull, with another cape dance. Then, the kill is made.

Recortes (a northern Spanish tradition) seldom draws blood and the bull is returned to the pen at the end of the fight. French course libres are also bull fights where the bull does not die. Portuguese bull fighting does not kill the bull (but wounds it), the bull is killed by a professional butcher after the fight.

Is coridas (Spanish bull fighting) cruel? Yes.
Is all bull fighting cruel? Not necessarily (see the french and recortes variants).

As a mitigating circumstance: fighting bulls have a good life compared to the average cow, chicken or to the pork used to make a burger.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 08 June 2010 - 04:04 PM

[SalokinX]

Tapper, on 08 June 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

SalokinX, on 08 June 2010 - 03:32 PM, said:

From what I understand, the bull starts the "fight" already injured, bloodied and in pain.

I think that anyone who is low enough to harm a weakened animal should have his balls cut off and sewed in place of his eyes. I am very, VERY against this kind of "sport" because it is simply stupid.

Put a bull in perfect condition and in good health with one of these "matador"s naked in a cage and let them have it, then I want to see who's the REAL matador.

Ehm, no.
A bull fight is built up in stages. You confuse the entire procedure (in which the bull does get wounded) with the final stage, in which the torero faces the wounded bull one on one. The whole of it is the bull fight.

here's a short introduction into spanish bull fighting.
First, the bull (who may or may not be drugged) is played with by the torero with the cape.
Then the bull is wounded, by horsemen with lances. This may or may not be to tire him, but is mainly done to weaken the neck muscles, forcing the bulls head down and make him more predictable. The bull is then in the second stage further enraged by men putting short barbed sticks into the shoulders. Then, the third stage is torero against bull, with another cape dance. Then, the kill is made.

Recortes (a northern Spanish tradition) seldom draws blood and the bull is returned to the pen at the end of the fight. French course libres are also bull fights where the bull does not die. Portuguese bull fighting does not kill the bull (but wounds it), the bull is killed by a professional butcher after the fight.

Is coridas (Spanish bull fighting) cruel? Yes.
Is all bull fighting cruel? Not necessarily (see the french and recortes variants).

As a mitigating circumstance: fighting bulls have a good life compared to the average cow, chicken or to the pork used to make a burger.

Oh, I get it. I remember seeing a bull fight on TV where a guy was just standing there with a lance (I think) and the bull was full of small lances hanging from his neck that some horsemen put there. Then the torero would just move to the side as the bull run up towards him and after a while doing that, when the bull can barely walk anymore, he sticks the lance into the bull's throat.

I thought it was horrible and, honestly, I wasn't aware that some places were different. I thought the custom of bull fighting was the same everywhere.

Anyway, did you mention burgers?! I want some. Now.

[Ulrik]

Let every bull avenge death of his kin! Horn into mouth, kick, smash, kill those bastards!

OK, its local cultural tradition...but Im huge fan of bulls.

[Aptorian]

I think bull fighting would be cooler if you had 10 bulls on LSD and steroids fighting one Bull fighter armed with a butter knife.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 08 June 2010 - 06:28 PM

[worry]

Everything in pain deserves pity. I wouldn't disagree with the argument that when you take such risks, you have to face the consequences, but "deserve" isn't a word I'd use for either the bull or the matador.

[Shinrei]

I must be a callous bastard. It's a bull. I don't care what it "feels".

Nor do I care what the matador feels when gored. Let them do their thing, and all's fair, eh?

[Gothos]

Truth be told, these bulls probably have it better than oh-so-many pigs and cows and hens in farms. But the bull is not the issue here.



A burger from a bull bred for fighting and looking fearsome is probably even better than boar, though.

[McLovin]

I bet freshly-killed matador makes great tapas.

[rhulad]

Matadors deserve whatever they get. If you want to step into a pen with a really angry bull and you get injured, do not expect any pity coming from me. Especially if you have been stabbing said bull in the neck with a bunch of barbed sticks. 

Then again, I wouldn't give anyone my pity if they got hurt doing something when they knew full well they could be seriously injured because of it. 

[worry]

Not even, say, a coal miner trapped by a cave-in? Or a fisherman who gets capsized in a storm? Is pity so precious and rare that you have to horde it?

[Gothos]

Don't go comparing matadors to coal miners or fishermen, it's not only retarted and rude, it's also a deppresingly cheap argument.
If you want to compare, compare to mercenaries, hitmen, burglars or poachers.

[worry]

If you look up one post further, you will see that I was reacting to a specific comment. It wasn't a comparison.

[Gothos]

And you still made too big a leap from it. With unclear, generalizing sentences, I'd rather err on the side of not-retarted, for the benefit of the poster, and my own mental health.