[Verjigorm]

I just finished the Bonehunters and I'm still impressed more and more by SE with each new volume.

In almost every book he experiments with "some event" outside the main plot lines. The Chain of Dogs in DG, the siege of Capustan in MoI or the one pov Karsa introduction in HoC. This time, he delivered the great firestorm of Y'ghatan. I really loved this chapter, cause it shows all the stages of the event from so many different perspectives. It's like in a brilliant movie. We see how the soldiers of the 14th prepare for the fight, each in his own way, stay at their sides while they try to survive the firestorm and crouch with them through the bones of Y'ghatan. The cool thing is that almost every featured soldier deals with the different situations individually. This culmintaes in their individual honey-infused god visions. A great piece of work here by SE.

The weakest part for me this time was Karsa. Apart from a few good/funny dialogs with Samar Dev, nothing really happens. He kills stuff, no surprise here. In the end it got more interesting, due to Feather Witch and the TE fleet taking them aboard. Let's see how this will play out with Rhulad.

Icarium/Taralack get the 2.0 version of the Karsa story. In the end, Icarium shall also face Rhulad, but their story in BH had far more to offer. The change in their relationship was very interesting to read. Taralack learned in the end what a burden it really is to be the companion of Icarium. Good story arch.

Even better is how Mappo tries to deal with his grief/guilt. There are many great and emotional scenes involving him this time. He also has the amazing comical relief trio Pust/Mogora/mule. I still haven't figured out, what the whole mule thing is about. Maybe the mule is the true Magi of shadow and Pust is just the guy riding him around.^^ On the other hand, Pust showed a bit of his potential, while fighting Dejim Nebrahl. Another highlight is Spite, who had one of the best dialogues in the book.

After reading a few other posts about Heboric, I now understand what happened there. In the first place I wasn't really sure, what Hood had to do with it, put the other threads cleared that up. Apart from that, I liked how he developed into something wild. The relationship between Scillara and Cutter is getting more and more interesting and both characters made a big jump in my personal sympathy rating during BH. Barathol seems interesting as well, L'oric had a nice guest starring, only Felisin's part failed to deliver. Shaik Reborn again? Don't know, if this is going to interest me much.
There was only one scene with those chars that was a bit off. Quite early, the Soldier of Death pops up. But the whole cryptic set up had RAFO written all over it, so I'm going to wait patiently, what that was all about.

Finally, the 14th arrived for me. As some of you probably know from my earlier posts, I wasn't a big fan of the whole soldiering thingy that SE does and most of the times (CoD, 14th in HoC) the soldiering part was my least liked story arch in the books. BH changed this dramatically. Suddenly all those nameless recruits got filled with live. Smiles/Koryk interaction is great, Cuttle, who wants so desperately throw a cusser or totally crazy Sgt. Balm are really great characters. Faradan Sort made a really great first impression by crushing Joyful Union and Sgt. Hellian is probably one of the best examples of SE's great sense of humor. But above all of them, there is the great Bottle. I love how helpless and powerful he is at the same time. So, all in all...I guess I became a Bonehunter...who would have thought that.

With the rise of the Bonehunters comes the creeping death of the Bridgeburners. QB seems to loose control and is way over his head. It's great, but scary to see such a powerful and wise character shiver and fall. I really have no clue, where he will go from his fight with Iccy. Kalam was bit on the back burner for the first part of the book, but had his grand finale in the end. The whole thing was set up perfectly, with Fiddler playing his requiem at Braven Tooth's, while Kalam was fighting till the end. The Deadhouse ending suggest that Kalam's story isn't over yet, but if he really didn't make it, then his end was worthy. Fiddler had some weaker scenes in the beginning, but really shined during the requiem and the card game scenes.

Finally acting on his own and really being the Master of the Deck worked quite well for Paran. Setting free the Deragoth, plunging guardian beasts onto Wu, messing with the Tyralle Trade company, ghost whispering with Hedge, becoming a High Fist, helping with the removal of Dejim and Poliel, dealing with Hood and helping Heboric save the world isn't a bad result for 1 guy. I like his Ascendancy 101 trial and error approach. Great story arch, now I have to wait to find out, what Hood wanted from him.

The tragic ending of the Lostara/Pearl story made me almost forgot for a second, how much Pearl deserved that ending. As for Lostara, I still don't feel cozy with her, but when the mighty Grub deems her important, then she will be important. But Grub, seriously...that Messiah child creeps me out.

Last but not least, I come to my favourite group of the book. Apsalar and Cottilion as really tragic characters, with Curdle/Telorast as great comic relief and great guest starring of ST in the end. Cottilion, in his tragic role reached Mappo status during the book. He also introduced the very interesting Eleint/Soletaken Eleint info at the beginning. I'm eager to find out more about all those dragons in the future.
And Apsalar? After killing, more killing, fighting Hounds and awesome killing...will she finally find rest? I doubt it. Another tragic hero. Really great story archs.

So, all in all, this book had so many great moments, I really loved it. Now let's see what Reaper's Gale has to offer...

Oh...and I forgot to mention Trull and how badass Tayschrenn is and Temper and Banashar and Withal and Co...man this book had a lot to offer...

[worry]

Reaper's Gale pays off so awesomely everything that happened in MT. You're in for something grand. And I'm totally with you on the bonus-length Y'Ghatan chapter, and Fiddler's song is indeed one of the most captivating moments in the entire series. In terms of Karsa, I tend to feel it's just a matter of his knowledge catching up to his intelligence. He's a bit wandery in this one, it's true, but it's deliberate, in service of his ambition. He's young, he has time to learn, and right now he's set for the slow burn.

[HoosierDaddy]

Think of if this way:

Karsa has been fairly bound throughout the series up til through TBH.

First, he is bound by Teblor mythology and his desire to "wreak havoc" amongst the children and become a Tebloran legend.
Second, he is bound by the Malazan 2nd Army in northern Genebackis, who get transported to 7 Cities.
Third, he's bound by being trapped in the Nascent, then being freed only to be recaught by the Malazans.
Fourth, he's freed only to become bound by Shaik and her approaching Whirlwind Apocalypse.

(All of which are at urging and guiding of the Unbound (Erikson is fan-fucking-tastic)).

It's only after the death of Shaik and Leoman leaving that Karsa is truly free to act on his own again. So, he goes wandering and subsequently hears tails of a chained society. Being the nice guy he is, he wants to free them of those shackles.

[Kanubis]

Glad you liked it, it's still my favourite in the series (with RG & MoI sharing second spot.)

I think I might have felt that way about Karsa on my first read, but the now that I've reread the series I find it hard to break him down in to his book appearances... if that makes any kind of sense

[caladanbrood]

The first time I read this book, I was actually pretty disappointed, apart from chapter 7 (Y'ghatan and aftermath). However, on re-read I was completely blown away, I now reckon it's actually one of his best. It does very well to link the first half of the series (mainly in the empire) to the second half (mainly in Lether), as well as upping the ante regarding the CG and the effects the House of Chains is having. Brilliant stuff!

[Battalion]

Verjigorm, I completely agree regarding the firestorm parts of the book.

The chaos seen through the eyes of all the different soldiers is, in my opinion, the best section in the entire series.

I loved it.

[Garak]

Besides the siege of Y'ghatan, the battle on Malaz Isle also left slack jawed. I mean you had Malazan soldiers holding off an angry mob of malazan citizens who were trying to get to the 7 cities recruits, khundryl and whickans aboard the ships. It was a tragic scene anyway you look at it.

[Verjigorm]

Oh, something I forgot, cause it wasn't pov character related, is the role of Mallick Rel. I can't really figure out his and Mael's relationship and their goals. At this time, two things seem possible. As with the followers of D'rek, Rel could act on his own. This was one of the themes in BH, followers creating their own belief system without their god approving of it.
On the other hand, as Jhistal seems to be the equivalent of Destriant, it could be that Mael is aware of Rel's doings and approves.

The first version would fit into the "sympathy" rating for both characters. Bugg/Mael is a character that is well liked, but Mallick Rel isn't.

The second version would be the far more interesting one, though. Where would be Mael's motivation in meddling with the Malazan Empire? So, what do I know up until now?
Mael seems to be opposed to the CG and the Tiste Edur. This would make him an ideal ally for Shadowthrone, who also acts against both. But ST's sympathy for his former empire is not that big. But would he let another god meddle with it? I think not, given his reaction to Oppon at the end of BH.
Understandably, Mael could seek influence over the Malazans to oppose an Edur army and so to ruin part of the CG's ambition. On the other hand, why drive away potential allies, like the Bonehunters? The danger Mallick Rel poses, seems to be that he is able to break Lasseen's spirit. The empress showed distress during the conversation with Tavore and Kalam in Mock's hold. A Lasseen with a broken spirit would make her a perfect target for the CG. But this wouldn't be in Mael's interest. It's going to be really interesting to figure out Mael's whole motivation in this.

Oh, and a random observation, which could mean everything or nothing: If you only take the first and last two letters of the name "Ma llick R el", you end up with Mael. But that is just me being paranoid, is it...

[Kanubis]

Verjigorm, all I'll say is, read RotCG after Reaper's Gale. I won't spoil stuff by saying anymore

[HedgeWalker]

Kanubis, on 16 April 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

Verjigorm, all I'll say is, read RotCG after Reaper's Gale. I won't spoil stuff by saying anymore

Thanks for the advice Kanubis (and the Thread Verjigorm) - I'm on RG at the moment (just finished book 1).

I do like how the books answer a load of questions....and ask more in the process, including hinting at all sorts of potentially interesting or important bits...I.e. Soldier of Death, his dangly mask and a smidgen more background on Skinner and the Avowed...I can't wait to find out more about those gents!

"Witness"...! I quoted that whole 'taking down the Bulls' passage to my girlfriend - she has to listen to me chuckling away when something amusing or interesting happens in whichever Malazan book I'm reading. For 3 weeks she has had to put up with me answering questions with "Witness"...

"You can't wear that shirt to work, you'll look ridiculous..."
..."Witness"...

She handles it like a champ!!

[biochemist]

I just finished BH a few nights ago. I'd have to say I enjoyed almost as much as MoI. Both of them had a similar structure 1) Army travels to city and lays siege (Capustan/Y'ghatan) 2) Follows up to climax in another city (Coral/Malaz) 3) Death or near death of favorite characters (Whiskeyjack/Kalam).

I have read a little of RG and I am relieved to find that Mael is still acting as Bugg, since I would hate it if SE split up the best duo in the series.

Looking forward to RG, right now my ranking is thus: 1) MoI 2) BH 3) DG 4) MT 5) GotM 6) HoC

[Siergiej]

I finished my first read of Bonehunters yesterday, and it's a time to share my opinion. I was very disappointed after House of Chains and Midnight Tides, but now I've regained my faith in Erikson's skill. Everything is back on track, and tBH is a great novel - IMO just behind Memories of Ice and Deadhouse Gates. Everything starts to be brought together and we finally see the bigger picture as a whole. Here are my thoughts on Bonehunters, I will start with what I didn't like, cause it's just easier. I like the novel pretty much, so later I will only point out the things that seem totally cool to me.

Bad:
- Poliel's death. You've gotta be kidding me. Goddes comes down to earth, filled with Chaois magic coming from Crippled God himself, kills milions of people just because she can and everything it takes to get rid of her is... throwing a tiny piece of otataral at her hand? Really, that was probably the dumbest scene in Malazan Book of the Fallen so far, ex aequo with Letheras mages smashing Edur villages into pieces and not checking if they've even killed anyone (Midnight Tides). Otataral nullifies magic to some extent, but god-slaying abilities weren't mentioned anywhere. Later in the book, when Edur fleet clashes with 14th Army and casts some dirty Chaos spell, Quick Ben says that Tavore's otataral blade maybe able to save a single ship. Blade. A damn sword can protect one boat from being wiped from the face of the earth with some insane magic. And Ganoes Paran throws a little piece of otataral at the goddes of disease, 2nd highest in House of Chains and... KA-BOOM! She is dying, waiting for Deragoth to finish her off.
- Sha'ik Reborn. What? Again? We've already seen this "good girl gone bad" theme on exactly the same subject - the leader of the Apocalypse. How many sha'iks are there? If Felisin Younger dies, will we get a fresh new maiden to become really dirty woman? I totally dislike the idea of going through the Sha'ik thing once again.
- Fight between Quick Ben and Icarium. It was poorly written, especially compared to chapters preceeding this scene. Quick Ben casts a spell. Icarium flies away. Quick Ben casts a spell. Icarium flies away. Quick Ben casts a spell. Icarium flies away. Quick Ben gets tired and Eres'al comes out of nowhere to save his ass. The end. SE can do much better, and I would expect duel between two awesome characters to be awesome as well.

Good:
- Y'ghatan battle and the Bonehunters theme. Bridgeburners do not exist anymore, but there is a unit capable of living up to BBs legacy. Epic, enyojable and moving, but still grim and dark part of the story. Totally loved it. I think I like every Bonehunter that had any "screentime", and Fiddler - the only Bridgeburner & Bonehunter - is now even more awesome, which is pretty impressive.
- Malaz Finale. It wasn't as dramatic as Coltaine's last stand or as grim and action-packed as storming Coral, but it still proves to be one of the best scenes in MBotF so far. From tense discussion between Laseen, jhistal and Tavore, right to sailing off it was impressive and fun to read. Kalam's and T'amber's desperate struggle to save Tavore, Pearl and his tragedy, 14th + Grey Helmets fighting for the Wickans, Fiddler playing his threnody for the fallen - everything was soooo awesome.
- Cotillion. Up until Bonehunters, Rope was more of a background character and this time he gets a major role in the plot. It worked great for him - now he is my 3rd favourite character of the series, just behind Quick Ben and Anomander Rake. He is clever and got a sense of humour. He struggles to save the world, but still keeps following his own goals. And, in some way, he is a tragical character with all this burden on his back and personal stuff with Apsalar.
- Dialogues. Erikson keeps getting better and better. He's got great sense of humour and I burst out laughing a few times while reading the Bonehunters. Interaction between Kalam and Quick Ben, Gesler and his falari friend (don't know his english name), Fiddler and his unit, Apsalar and her dragon ghosts. Even Cotillion had a few funny moments. And, of course, constantly drunk Hellian

Overally, it's a great book. But I am afraid I won't be able to say the same about Reaper's Gale. It goes back to Lether, and I didn't enjoy Midnight Tides all that much. But Icarium and Karsa are coming along with Edur fleet, so I will give it a try and... Witness!

[Bauchelain the Evil]

About Poliel. The Otataral doesn't kill her just takes away her magic so she can' teleport or something like that. Then the HoS arrive with Dejim and leave him there. Then the Deragoth arrive found a crippled Dejim and a powerless Poliel and kill both of them.

Also I doubt Felisisn Younger is really Sha'ik Reborn . That's just The CG manipulating her.

[Siergiej]

It was said that otataral tied her to the world of mortals and made her suffer insanely huge pain. After all, she couldn't even move. Lame way to own a god if You ask me.

[champ]

Siergiej, on 12 August 2010 - 12:11 PM, said:

It was said that otataral tied her to the world of mortals and made her suffer insanely huge pain. After all, she couldn't even move. Lame way to own a god if You ask me.

Superman and Krpytonite, same thing! Just a substance that mindfucks people of magical power!

This post has been edited by champooon: 12 August 2010 - 12:50 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

About the QB iccy battle: what else is the guy supposed to do? Duel? Are you kidding me? Duel icarium? The only chance quick has is to keep blasting iccy.

I liked it cuz it finally showed us what quick is capable of when he cuts loose.

[Braden]

champooon, on 12 August 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

Siergiej, on 12 August 2010 - 12:11 PM, said:

It was said that otataral tied her to the world of mortals and made her suffer insanely huge pain. After all, she couldn't even move. Lame way to own a god if You ask me.

Superman and Krpytonite, same thing! Just a substance that mindfucks people of magical power!

I see it that it’s a matter of how MUCH magic is invested. Otataral, potentially, becomes more potent as the magic its opposing/in contact with becomes more pure and powerful.



With a relationship like this we can see that the sword, which still only has a small amount of Otataral in it (its not entirely made of Otataral, that would be physically impossible as Otataral seems to be a crystalline material so has to be mixed with normal metals to make a sword), opposing a Spell by the Edur could indeed only defend its immediate surroundings.



However a RAW lump of Otataral, potentially more Otataral than is actually in a sword. In direct contact with a being that is essentially 90% magic, is going to have a much more exponential effect.



To me, that’s how it makes sense. However, I’m a little unclear on the exact composition of Otataral, sometimes its inferred that its an onyx/crystalline type mineral, other times it seems its similar to Aluminium in that it’s a powder that can be made into a metal-like substance.

[GingerBreadMan]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 12 August 2010 - 09:16 AM, said:

About Poliel. The Otataral doesn't kill her just takes away her magic so she can' teleport or something like that. Then the HoS arrive with Dejim and leave him there. Then the Deragoth arrive found a crippled Dejim and a powerless Poliel and kill both of them.

Also I doubt Felisisn Younger is really Sha'ik Reborn . That's just The CG manipulating her.

Queen of Dreams "chose" her to be Sha'ik Reborn as well

So either she IS or QoD is allied with the CG

[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Allright, finished The Bonehunters last night. Took me two minutes to go grab Reaper's Gale. Become an addict, yes. A tedict.

Did I enjoy it? Massively. Did I like it as much as the others? Mm. I think this is my ranking so far:

1. House of Chains
2. Memories of Ice
3. Midnight Tides
4. The Bonehunters
5. Deadhouse Gates
6. Gardens of the Moon

Of course, this will probably change. How do I know? I read through the first 50 pages or so of my recently acquired Gardens of the Moon 10th Anniversary Edition which mr Erikson was kind enough to sign for me, and it blew me away - how many names were mentioned this early, links forward to later volumes, it was kind of a revelation, really. Being my fourth favorite does mean that the book is generally awesome, mind. They all are.

The Bonehunters had some awesome moments, and the firestorm at Y'Ghatan was a highlight, as others have pointed out. I also really enjoyed the last bit, you know, when Adjunct Tavore and her fleet arrives at Malaz City and all that goes down following this event. I must say that though I was thoroughly engrossed, I didn't really understand half of what was going on. Maybe on the second re-read, I will understand more.

Karsa's story seemed a little ... I don't know. There wasn't really a plot there. Still, he's one badass.

Icarium's story was his best appearance so far, though I was confused at the transition between Mappo Trell and Taralack Veed. When and how did this occur so suddenly?

I wish I understood more of the complexities of the series - I am like 'wtf' every second page.
And I still see Kalam as a caucasian moustached guy. Dammit. Although I finally see Quick Ben as he is supposed to look.

The Malazan soldiers - I loved Hellian, a great character because Erikson gives her some depth. When she came to Malaz City I had forgotten who the D'rek priest was (had to flip back to the beginning of the book), and I didn't understand that part.

Mael's part in the story? No idea. D'rek? Huh?

What was the conversation between Shadowthrone and Tayschrenn all about? What exactly happened with Heboric? How? Where is Fener?
What was the deal with Cotillion and those dragons? Where did Trull Sengar and the undead make their last stand (the cave)?
T'amber --> E'resal --> but what is the motivation of the character?
The Tiste Edur invasion, the First Throne, the vacant throne, it's all a big jumble in my mind. And still I'm loving it.

I have like a host of other questions, but I can't remember them right now.

[D'rek]

Slynt in the Shadows, on 17 August 2010 - 07:55 AM, said:

Allright, finished The Bonehunters last night. Took me two minutes to go grab Reaper's Gale. Become an addict, yes. A tedict.

Did I enjoy it? Massively. Did I like it as much as the others? Mm. I think this is my ranking so far:

1. House of Chains
2. Memories of Ice
3. Midnight Tides
4. The Bonehunters
5. Deadhouse Gates
6. Gardens of the Moon

Of course, this will probably change. How do I know? I read through the first 50 pages or so of my recently acquired Gardens of the Moon 10th Anniversary Edition which mr Erikson was kind enough to sign for me, and it blew me away - how many names were mentioned this early, links forward to later volumes, it was kind of a revelation, really. Being my fourth favorite does mean that the book is generally awesome, mind. They all are.

The Bonehunters had some awesome moments, and the firestorm at Y'Ghatan was a highlight, as others have pointed out. I also really enjoyed the last bit, you know, when Adjunct Tavore and her fleet arrives at Malaz City and all that goes down following this event. I must say that though I was thoroughly engrossed, I didn't really understand half of what was going on. Maybe on the second re-read, I will understand more.

Karsa's story seemed a little ... I don't know. There wasn't really a plot there. Still, he's one badass.

Icarium's story was his best appearance so far, though I was confused at the transition between Mappo Trell and Taralack Veed. When and how did this occur so suddenly? Dejim Nebrahl is released by the Nameless Ones in the prologue, with Taralack watching. Under the NO' orders Dejim attacks Mapp and Iccy, knocking Iccy unconscious and Mappo down into a deep pit. Iccy wakes up next to Taralack, remembering nothing and Taralack (also a servant of the NOs) misleads Iccy into thinking Taralack has been his friend for a long time.

I wish I understood more of the complexities of the series - I am like 'wtf' every second page.
And I still see Kalam as a caucasian moustached guy. He is Inigo Montoya. Prepare to die. Dammit. Although I finally see Quick Ben as he is supposed to look.

The Malazan soldiers - I loved Hellian, a great character because Erikson gives her some depth. When she came to Malaz City I had forgotten who the D'rek priest was (had to flip back to the beginning of the book), and I didn't understand that part. How can you forget Banaschar, he's the best character ever. He literally gets drunk for an entire year in Malaz City.

Mael's part in the story? No idea. He didn't have one. D'rek? Huh? His/her followers tried to side with the CG. (S)He killed them all instead, except for Banaschar and Tayschrenn. Banaschar investigated it all and tried to reach Tayschrenn to talk about it, but failed to.

What was the conversation between Shadowthrone and Tayschrenn all about? Nothing much, just how Tayschrenn tends to sit out of things and ST should worry about the Empire rather than the Wickans. What exactly happened with Heboric? He died. Then he or his power was used to manipulate the jade statues already in Otataral island into absorbing the impact of the falling statues. This is probably related to him realizing he was a Shield Anvil and not a Destriant (so he could embrace the souls in the Jade statues like SAs do). How? Well he was dead and Paran negotiated with Hood, the God of Death to intervene... Where is Fener? Still running and hiding in Wu or some other mortal plane from the folks that might want to hurt him, as far as we know.
What was the deal with Cotillion and those dragons? They didn't reach a deal. They just talked about stuff and Cotillion learned that when K'rul created the Paths and modernized the existing warrens that some dragons helped and became associated to the warrens they shaped. Where did Trull Sengar and the undead make their last stand (the cave)? The First Throne of the T'lan Imass. It is somewhere on or near Quon Tali.
T'amber --> E'resal --> but what is the motivation of the character? Which one, T'amber or the Eres'al?
The Tiste Edur invasion, the First Throne, the vacant throne, it's all a big jumble in my mind. And still I'm loving it. Good.

I have like a host of other questions, but I can't remember them right now.