[Chance]

About Lea stealing the show, she and Mouse stole every scene they where in

Abyss, on 12 April 2010 - 03:08 PM, said:

- Abyss, now REALLY needs to reread the series...

Really a lot of things you see in a diffrent light when re-reading the series. Certain characters seem very diffrent after Changes and earlier actions make more sense. Also find it interesting that there seem to be some small inconsistency most of all Mollys physical revulsion to violence/death which seem to have just vanished in Changes (or did it vanish inexplicably before?), well I've got Turncoat and Changes left before the re-read is complete so might be something I'm forgetting.

/Chance...

[Abyss]

Chance, on 12 April 2010 - 07:11 PM, said:

...Also find it interesting that there seem to be some small inconsistency most of all Mollys physical revulsion to violence/death which seem to have just vanished in Changes (or did it vanish inexplicably before?), well I've got Turncoat and Changes left before the re-read is complete so might be something I'm forgetting....

Considering who she's been hanging out with...

[Stalker]

I'm not sure of that part. I think it described Molly as "pale" at one point after describing some violence. I may be wrong though and she was just pale from blood loss and exhustion during the massive mayan magical melee. I can't quite remember the context so it is one of the two.

Speaking of inconsistency, how about Thomas seeming almost normal? Last time he was completely dehumanized and now even though he works with his family, he has less problems controlling himself. Is this just because he has been well fed (on humans) and isn't quite as blood-thirsty as after being tortured by shagnasty? something else maybe?

[Slow Ben]

Dear Lord this book was fanfriggintastic!!!

It might just be my favorite Dresden novel. This and Dead Beat are neck and neck right now. Definitely starting a re-read as soon as i finish the series i'm on now.

Most of the stuff that made this book awesome has been mentioned. But i loved the new references. We've always had Harry with his Star Wars stuff ("That is why you fail"). But we got some Princess Bride, Christmas Story and Spinal Tap. Damn great stuff. DAMN....GREAT....STUFF!

I finished last night at 1 AM and couldnt get to friggin sleep till 2 i was so wound up.

[Stalker]

yeah the Princess Bride reference was great. "We could always go to plan B if someone has a giant wheelbarrow" or something like that lol.

[Slow Ben]

"Then why didnt you list that among our assets?!"


Awesome.

[Abyss]

Harry to self/the Erl King (approximate): " My mouth said "See you around, Erl.". Fortunately I don't think he got it. "

Also:
"Why Godmother, what a big... car... you have."
"All the better to drive you to your date with death and destruction, my dear."

- Abyss, ...should really just start an 'awesome Dresden quotes' thread...

[Stalker]

Abyss, on 13 April 2010 - 03:25 AM, said:

Harry to self/the Erl King (approximate): " My mouth said "See you around, Erl.". Fortunately I don't think he got it. "

I didn't get this one. Felt like I was overlooking something obvious but no idea. Explanation? The actual quote comes off page 316.

Quote

- Abyss, ...should really just start an 'awesome Dresden quotes' thread...

This is a good idea. There are 12 books of great one-liners and with all the people planning on rereads of the series this would be a great time to start that.

This post has been edited by Stalker: 13 April 2010 - 05:03 AM

[Morgoth]

Anyways, having given it a little thought I think Dresden was shot by the white court simply for the reason that there has to be a war brewing between the white court and the white council.


The amount of influence they exert in the US is clearly enormous, one can wonder to what extent they run the country. Now with the Red Court gone they seem the natural group to step into that vacuum, in essecne giving the White Court full economic and possibly politically and military control of two continents.

That's not taking into account whatever presence they hold in any of the other continents.

How much longer can the White Council tolerate a species of vampire holding such enormous amounts of power? The White Court must certainly know things are moving towards conflict and had I been Lara I might just panic a little when one Wizard seemingly alone managed to wipe out the entire Red Court.

Not to mention that wizard being one who not only knows where you live but also that you're the true power of your court.

[Stalker]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking along the same lines earlier (as in White Court). Unless Harry was being followed, only Thomas and other friends knew that he was shacking up at the Water Beetle. I considered Thomas might be the shooter, but I really don't think he could do it. Thomas has changed but not to that extent, though I suppose you never know since he is a vampire.

Or maybe it is the mysterious person who has been following Harry throughout the series in side plotlines that aren't usually resolved, maybe this faction finally struck.

This post has been edited by Stalker: 14 April 2010 - 12:41 AM

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

I assumed the shooter was merely someone hired by Arianna or the Eebs prior to both being removed from the picture. If so the shooter will be fairly annoyed at not being paid out.

Thomas should still be on the aircraft carrier, so it couldn't really be him. And if it was White Court neither Molly nor Mouse should make it back to Chicago, which is why I think it unlikely they were responsible. Basically, they should both have already died off screen and I cannot see Butcher doing that.

Either way, there isn't enough information to really narrow it down to a specific faction, so discussions on the shooter are just rampant speculation.

All in all, Changes was a decent read, but the means to rid the world of the Red Court was just a little too convenient for my liking.

[Use Of Weapons]

Question: probabilty of shooter being Kincaid?

[Abyss]

Morgoth, on 13 April 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyways, having given it a little thought I think Dresden was shot by the white court ...

I doubt it for three reasons.

1) Via Thomas, Dresden is actually a useful ally for Lara;
2) If the shooter made the hit or not, the White council is liable to take a dim view of this;
3) If the shooter blows the hit, Dresden is going to be PISSED and he did just wipe an the entire race of vampires more numerous and powerful than the White Court.

Stalker, on 14 April 2010 - 12:40 AM, said:

...Or maybe it is the mysterious person who has been following Harry throughout the series in side plotlines that aren't usually resolved, maybe this faction finally struck.

I go with this.

jitsukerr, on 14 April 2010 - 01:03 PM, said:

Question: probabilty of shooter being Kincaid?

Mixed. On the one hand Harry's comment that Kincaid is one of the people who could probably take him out is heavy foreshadowing. On the other, Ivy is an ally and as of the phone call mid-way thru the book, Kincaid is working for her at that moment. I'm thinking more likely whomever it was used the same method Kincaid would have, but it's not Kincaid.

- Abyss, bets on professor plum on the water tower with a sniper rifle...

[Chance]

Abyss, on 14 April 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 13 April 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

Anyways, having given it a little thought I think Dresden was shot by the white court ...

I doubt it for three reasons.

1) Via Thomas, Dresden is actually a useful ally for Lara;
2) If the shooter made the hit or not, the White council is liable to take a dim view of this;
3) If the shooter blows the hit, Dresden is going to be PISSED and he did just wipe an the entire race of vampires more numerous and powerful than the White Court.

Add to that could be that Lara already told Dresden exactly how she would wage war...in White Night.

""And I love peace, wizard. I love talking. Laughting. Relaxing." Her voice dropped to a husky pitch. "I will kill your folk with peace, wizard. I will strangle them with it. And they will thank me while I do.""

Also McCoy would take it fairly personal if something happened to Dresden and Lara knows that after Turncoat where he made it abundantly clear.



Still Thomas was pretty much the only one who could have betrayed where Dresden was....so either it has to do with Thomas or other friends or it's something entirely unrelated and it could be anyone out of all Dresdens potential enemies. My guess it will be central for the next book kinda Dresden or his friends unravels his murder.

Was there anyone who really reacted oddly/strongly to Dresdens "ascension" to Winter Knight ? (McCoy and most seemed pretty chill about it.)

/Chance...

This post has been edited by Chance: 14 April 2010 - 04:43 PM

[Obdigore]

The shooter was Fix.

Think about it. Let it set in. Think about motive. It works. I doubt it, but it is better than many of the suggestions I have seen so far.

The thing I am more interested in is the 'Hush Now' voice after (snake boy who I cannot remember the name of)'s 'Die Alone' curse. Another gift from Mommy LeFay? Something religious (not any christian denomination I am familiar with has a female 'greeter of the dead'). Crazy Theory? Shooter was hired by Odin. 'Hush Now' fromone of the Choosers of the Slain? What if Odin brings Harrys (Soul/Spirit/Chi) to his area of power, then brings his body, and reanimates him (possible in Norse Mythology, I believe), then procedes to train him, as apparently the first Merlin was trained by him? Quite the interesting twist, and a possible foreshadowing by Ebenezer there. If he died, he gets away from Mab's GEAS on the winter night, and do we think Mab or Titanya can see into the heart of Odin's power?

The more I put down, the more I like that theory.

[Slow Ben]

Abyss, on 14 April 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

jitsukerr, on 14 April 2010 - 01:03 PM, said:

Question: probabilty of shooter being Kincaid?

Mixed. On the one hand Harry's comment that Kincaid is one of the people who could probably take him out is heavy foreshadowing. On the other, Ivy is an ally and as of the phone call mid-way thru the book, Kincaid is working for her at that moment. I'm thinking more likely whomever it was used the same method Kincaid would have, but it's not Kincaid.

- Abyss, bets on professor plum on the water tower with a sniper rifle...

I doubt its Kincaid for one reason only. If it had been, the book would have ended with Harry stepping off the boat and thats it. I think if Kincaid is taking someone out he puts a bullet right through their heart or right between their eyes. No chance of them surviving, and he's good enough to make it happen.


And i hope to hell its not fix. I'd hate to see Harry have to destroy that guy.

[Chance]

Obdigore, on 14 April 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

The thing I am more interested in is the 'Hush Now' voice after....

My guess Mab or possibly fairy grandmother thought LaFey seems a good possibility. And lets hope Butcher doesn't pull a simple resurection to get out of the Winter Knight gig that would be utterly shite As seen in Erikson eventually such stuff lessens the impact/meaning of killing beloved characters, death as well as choices gotto have consequences...

/Chance...

[obihal]

Stalker, on 13 April 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

Abyss, on 13 April 2010 - 03:25 AM, said:

Harry to self/the Erl King (approximate): " My mouth said "See you around, Erl.". Fortunately I don't think he got it. "

I didn't get this one. Felt like I was overlooking something obvious but no idea. Explanation? The actual quote comes off page 316.

i didt get it too??

[Use Of Weapons]

My feeling that it's Kincaid grows stronger. Ivy may be an ally, but the Archive is not. And Ivy has shown that she acts as the Archive when it's necessary, despite her attachment to Harry. It may be that the destruction of the Red Court has repercussions outside the simple vacuum of power, attached to the links between the various old powers of the world. It's within the bounds of possibility that the Archive could order Kincaid to shoot Harry, but not in an 'instant-kill' way -- Ivy's interference to give her friend a chance at surviving.

I haven't got the books in front of me, but I think there may be some link between Forthill's broken jaw, consequent need to write everything down (transmitted direct to Ivy), and a decision on the Archive's part to order Harry's death.

[Abyss]

jitsukerr, on 15 April 2010 - 10:38 AM, said:

... I think there may be some link between Forthill's broken jaw, consequent need to write everything down (transmitted direct to Ivy), and a decision on the Archive's part to order Harry's death.

That's a fascinating idea. Have rep.