[Crow Clan Baby]

As others have said before, this is part 1 of a 2 part story that will be concluded in the Crippled God, so you shouldn't go looking for resolution or explanation in anything. Even the parts that seem most pointless now can potentially turn out to be pivotal, so I'd advise to reserve judgement until we get our hands on the second part.

Also, if there's one thing we all should have learned by now, these books absolutely demand a re-read. There are just so many threads woven through the full story that the relevance or merits of anything should never be taken for granted either way until you go through them again knowing what you know about what happens later. Example - I (and I'm certain many others) loathed House of Chains first time through, whereas second time through I saw it as being utterly pivotal to the entire series. It's pretty safe to say that unless you've read them at least twice, you haven't really grasped what Erikson's doing.

[cleantoe]

Crow Clan Baby, on 28 February 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

As others have said before, this is part 1 of a 2 part story that will be concluded in the Crippled God, so you shouldn't go looking for resolution or explanation in anything. Even the parts that seem most pointless now can potentially turn out to be pivotal, so I'd advise to reserve judgement until we get our hands on the second part.

Also, if there's one thing we all should have learned by now, these books absolutely demand a re-read. There are just so many threads woven through the full story that the relevance or merits of anything should never be taken for granted either way until you go through them again knowing what you know about what happens later. Example - I (and I'm certain many others) loathed House of Chains first time through, whereas second time through I saw it as being utterly pivotal to the entire series. It's pretty safe to say that unless you've read them at least twice, you haven't really grasped what Erikson's doing.

Actually, I ate up all the books, provided Midnight Tides started out slow but got cool fast. Dust of Dreams was the only book thus far where I thought everything was just...boring. Even the short parts with Tehol weren't as good as his other parts (oh man I keep laughing whenever I think of chickens now).

Does anyone happen to have a copy where they went through and made one, large book of Tehol-only parts? It's great comic relief.

I think the most tragic thing about this series is that Iskaral Pust and Tehol Beddict will never meet. That would easily be the best part of the series, although Kruppe and Pust's battle of the mules was also hilariously entertaining.

Speaking of Kruppe, does anyone know why Kruppe was able to withstand Caladan Brood's hammer to the ground? Was K'rul protecting him or something?

This post has been edited by cleantoe: 28 February 2010 - 03:24 PM

[caladanbrood]

 

cleantoe, on 28 February 2010 - 03:22 PM, said:

Speaking of Kruppe, does anyone know why Kruppe was able to withstand Caladan Brood's hammer to the ground? Was K'rul protecting him or something?

Yep, that's it

[Onearms"s Host]

So the OP didn't understand why Rake would do what he did and needed an explanation, skipped entire chapters of DoD, and basically shows how little thought he/she has put into understanding these books and needs everybody else to spell it out for him? A couple of pieces of advice when reading SE: 1)Nothing is unimportant, 9 books in and you should have realized that. 2)Don't skip chapters. How can you skip entire chapters and obviously just skimmed over many others and then come here and rant about how much the book sucked? You didn't even read the damn thing!

I have no problem with people criticizing the book, what I don't like is criticizm when said person barely read it. That's like watching 5 minutes of a hockey game and concluding the team played like crap for the whole game based on what you watched. I'll admit that there were parts of DoD that were dryer than usual, but as has been stated in many other threads: re-reads will often help clear up what you didn't understand the first time through. For me the re-read was what I needed to understand the whole Icarium storyline in DoD. I missed quite a bit of that the first time through.

As for the Barghast storyline that many seem to dislike, what did you expect? Did you expect that SE would just not write about them anymore? That after the events of the early novels (coming together with the BB's), and after the whole clan just picked up and sailed across the ocean to the Letherii continent, after the pages that were written about all the empty boats on the Letherii coastline and their total and complete dissappearance into that continent, did people really think that we would never hear about them again? I always wanted to know what happened to the Barghast and thankfully this is one of the few times that a plot/story has been completely wrapped up.

And the comment that the Malazan Book of the Fallen is the bastard child of A Song of Ice and Fire and the Wheel of Time series is outrageous, ludicrous, and frankly not very well thought out. After that comment you should be banned, to even put the Wheel of Time in the same paragraph as TMBotF should earn you a millenia in Dragnipur. Ridiculous.

EDIT: I also think that the Barghast and their tens of thousands of warriors had to be removed from the storyline prior to TCG. Maybe the addition of all those warriors would have tipped the balance in favor of whatever side they joined. Also the Barghast battle set up a super cool entrance for Draconus. For that alone , I had no problemo with the Barghast storyline.

This post has been edited by Onearms"s Host: 28 February 2010 - 06:45 PM

[cleantoe]

Onearms"s Host, on 28 February 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

So the OP didn't understand why Rake would do what he did and needed an explanation, skipped entire chapters of DoD, and basically shows how little thought he/she has put into understanding these books and needs everybody else to spell it out for him? A couple of pieces of advice when reading SE: 1)Nothing is unimportant, 9 books in and you should have realized that. 2)Don't skip chapters. How can you skip entire chapters and obviously just skimmed over many others and then come here and rant about how much the book sucked? You didn't even read the damn thing!

Seems I'm not the only person here who has a hard time reading.

I never skipped "entire chapters". I glossed over two parts mainly: The Snake and the people who had their lives flash before their eyes before dying. Everything else I read. Yes, I needed someone to explain what Rake did because it still doesn't make sense. He didn't need to die in a heroic battle that he intentionally set up to lose? He didn't need to bring terrible grief to Traveller the way he did. What got Mother Dark's attention wasn't him dying in a heroic battle. It was him dying and then doing what he did in Dragnipur.

Quote

I have no problem with people criticizing the book, what I don't like is criticizm when said person barely read it. That's like watching 5 minutes of a hockey game and concluding the team played like crap for the whole game based on what you watched. I'll admit that there were parts of DoD that were dryer than usual, but as has been stated in many other threads: re-reads will often help clear up what you didn't understand the first time through. For me the re-read was what I needed to understand the whole Icarium storyline in DoD. I missed quite a bit of that the first time through.

I read almost everything in the book, as I said before. The Snake and the self-extrapolations, I just skimmed. I didn't have to re-read the Icarium storyline to get it (aside from the Snake part). I understood immediately his multiple personalities.

Anyways, to use your metaphor more accurately: I watched the entire hockey game but was skipping channels when there was a lull in action, but most of the time I was watching the game. Does that make it easier for you to understand? I guess I'm not the only one who needs others to spell things out.

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As for the Barghast storyline that many seem to dislike, what did you expect? Did you expect that SE would just not write about them anymore? That after the events of the early novels (coming together with the BB's), and after the whole clan just picked up and sailed across the ocean to the Letherii continent, after the pages that were written about all the empty boats on the Letherii coastline and their total and complete dissappearance into that continent, did people really think that we would never hear about them again? I always wanted to know what happened to the Barghast and thankfully this is one of the few times that a plot/story has been completely wrapped up.

I expected something more pivotal to the plot of the entire series. The only 2 important things to come out of that plotline was Tool and his children. The rest was just filling up space to reach those ends, which could have come about quicker. All I am saying is that the whole thing with the Barghast need not be as long as it was. Keep it the same, but at least shorter. It took up too much space and was an unrewarding read (for me, that is).

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And the comment that the Malazan Book of the Fallen is the bastard child of A Song of Ice and Fire and the Wheel of Time series is outrageous, ludicrous, and frankly not very well thought out. After that comment you should be banned, to even put the Wheel of Time in the same paragraph as TMBotF should earn you a millenia in Dragnipur. Ridiculous.

Grow up. Don't be so rude and obnoxious. The Wheel of Time exceeds this series. As a matter of fact, I'd say of the three series I mentioned, this one is the most inferior (but still damn good--don't get me wrong). If you don't believe that, it's fine. But don't just come here and insult my intelligence and troll.

[ritchiediaz]

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The Wheel of Time exceeds this series. As a matter of fact, I'd say of the three series I mentioned, this one is the most inferior (but still damn good--don't get me wrong). If you don't believe that, it's fine. But don't just come here and insult my intelligence and troll.

Ok, I know about subjective taste and all, but you have totally undermined your own argument as to why you disliked Dust of Dreams.

It was too verbose and there was too many segments where nothing was advancing the main plot? There were segments like the Snake that were an unrewarding read?

Considering that almost nothing in books 5-10 of The Wheel of Time move the plot onwards I think that your credibility is stretched somewhat.

But to reiterate an earlier analogy, some people prefer lighter 'popcorn' fare (although strangely WOT simply descended into turgid, dull soap opera nonsense IMO, not even much 'popcorn').

WOT isn't even in the same league quality wise to MBOTF, in fact I wouldn't even put them in the same sport.

This post has been edited by ritchiediaz: 28 February 2010 - 07:26 PM

[cleantoe]

ritchiediaz, on 28 February 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

Quote

The Wheel of Time exceeds this series. As a matter of fact, I'd say of the three series I mentioned, this one is the most inferior (but still damn good--don't get me wrong). If you don't believe that, it's fine. But don't just come here and insult my intelligence and troll.

Ok, I know about subjective taste and all, but you have totally undermined your own argument as to why you disliked Dust of Dreams.

It was too verbose and there was too many segments where nothing was advancing the main plot? There were segments like the Snake that were an unrewarding read?

Considering that almost nothing in books 5-10 of The Wheel of Time move the plot onwards I think that your credibility is stretched somewhat.

But to reiterate an earlier analogy, some people prefer lighter 'popcorn' fare (although strangely WOT simply descended into turgid, dull soap opera nonsense IMO, not even much 'popcorn').

WOT isn't even in the same league quality wise to MBOTF, in fact I wouldn't even put them in the same sport.

Books 1-6 in WoT were damn good. Book 7 was alright. Books 8-10 were boring. Book 11 was good. Book 12 was great!

I experienced similar levels of boredom in those boring books I mentioned. I am talking on the whole, here. On the whole, I feel that WoT is superior to the Malazan books. Like I said though, this series is still very good.

I said that this series is a cross between WoT and ASoIaF because the former is more light-hearted, while the latter is abysmally dark. This series has both light and dark sequences.

Regarding moving the plot forward, you're wrong (although not entirely--there are, admittedly, lots of useless subplots). For instance, in book 6 (Lord of Chaos), Rand Al-Thor is captured and put into a box by the Tar Valon delegation. This is the first we see of him communicating with Lews Therin Telamon and working together with him (although LTT is just a figment of his imagination). Also, he makes the Aes Sedai submit to his rule, thus fulfilling one of the prophecies I believe, or at the very least, getting his own cadre of Aes Sedai. This book also shows the Ashaman in action and lets slip of Mazrim Taim's darkfriendness via his last line "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". And the leader of the Black Tower being evil is significant for furthering the plot.

Anyways, to each his/her own.

This post has been edited by cleantoe: 28 February 2010 - 07:38 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

i enjoy WoT as much as the next person, but even books 1-6 don't measure up to tMBotF. im sorry theres just no comparison. if you're actually that put out about wasted pages and pointless storylines in DoD, how could you not have shot yourself in the face trying to get through books 8-10?

[cleantoe]

Sinisdar Toste, on 28 February 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

i enjoy WoT as much as the next person, but even books 1-6 don't measure up to tMBotF. im sorry theres just no comparison. if you're actually that put out about wasted pages and pointless storylines in DoD, how could you not have shot yourself in the face trying to get through books 8-10?

Shot myself in the foot? It's not like I'm trying to prove some theory in physics or something. I just prefer one series over the other.

Even the useless subplots in WoT can be entertaining to read--and for the record, I DO gloss over stuff in those series too, like when Robert Jordan wants to describe a piece of clothing in 20,000 words.

[JimmyBole]

Aptorian, on 27 February 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Just a tiny correction here. Dassem/Traveller not Edgewalker.

Sorry I confused myself. Meant Traveller but somehow got edgewalker into my head lol.

[JimmyBole]

cleantoe, on 28 February 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

ritchiediaz, on 28 February 2010 - 07:25 PM, said:

Quote

The Wheel of Time exceeds this series. As a matter of fact, I'd say of the three series I mentioned, this one is the most inferior (but still damn good--don't get me wrong). If you don't believe that, it's fine. But don't just come here and insult my intelligence and troll.

Ok, I know about subjective taste and all, but you have totally undermined your own argument as to why you disliked Dust of Dreams.

It was too verbose and there was too many segments where nothing was advancing the main plot? There were segments like the Snake that were an unrewarding read?

Considering that almost nothing in books 5-10 of The Wheel of Time move the plot onwards I think that your credibility is stretched somewhat.

But to reiterate an earlier analogy, some people prefer lighter 'popcorn' fare (although strangely WOT simply descended into turgid, dull soap opera nonsense IMO, not even much 'popcorn').

WOT isn't even in the same league quality wise to MBOTF, in fact I wouldn't even put them in the same sport.

Books 1-6 in WoT were damn good. Book 7 was alright. Books 8-10 were boring. Book 11 was good. Book 12 was great!

I experienced similar levels of boredom in those boring books I mentioned. I am talking on the whole, here. On the whole, I feel that WoT is superior to the Malazan books. Like I said though, this series is still very good.

I said that this series is a cross between WoT and ASoIaF because the former is more light-hearted, while the latter is abysmally dark. This series has both light and dark sequences.

Regarding moving the plot forward, you're wrong (although not entirely--there are, admittedly, lots of useless subplots). For instance, in book 6 (Lord of Chaos), Rand Al-Thor is captured and put into a box by the Tar Valon delegation. This is the first we see of him communicating with Lews Therin Telamon and working together with him (although LTT is just a figment of his imagination). Also, he makes the Aes Sedai submit to his rule, thus fulfilling one of the prophecies I believe, or at the very least, getting his own cadre of Aes Sedai. This book also shows the Ashaman in action and lets slip of Mazrim Taim's darkfriendness via his last line "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". And the leader of the Black Tower being evil is significant for furthering the plot.

Anyways, to each his/her own.

I just have to say that the wheel of time series was utter dirt. I made it to book 6 and couldnt get no further. I mentioned that at times I had to force myself through DoD, well I should have gotten a medal for managing to get as far as i did in wheel of time. Hats off to anyone that finished it though. But absolutely nothing comes close to Eriksons books in my opinion.

[Crow Clan Baby]

I'm not gonna froth at the mouth too much about claiming that WoT is superior; each to their own and all that. I know for a fact that from roundabout book 7 (of WoT) onwards I was ready to gnaw my leg off (yes, I found it worse than Vogon poetry) and only stuck with it out of sheer bloodymindedness - "I've started the damn thing so I'm damn well gonna finish it". Each to their own.

I'll reiterate though that DoD is only half a book, and that it shouldn't be judged until TCG comes out. It needs to be accepted and read on those terms, and anything else is doing justice to neither the book nor to your opinion of it.

[cleantoe]

Crow Clan Baby, on 28 February 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm not gonna froth at the mouth too much about claiming that WoT is superior; each to their own and all that. I know for a fact that from roundabout book 7 (of WoT) onwards I was ready to gnaw my leg off (yes, I found it worse than Vogon poetry) and only stuck with it out of sheer bloodymindedness - "I've started the damn thing so I'm damn well gonna finish it". Each to their own.

I'll reiterate though that DoD is only half a book, and that it shouldn't be judged until TCG comes out. It needs to be accepted and read on those terms, and anything else is doing justice to neither the book nor to your opinion of it.

To each his own, correct.

But keep in mind that "The Gathering Storm", the latest installment in WoT, is only 1/3rd of the final book, and it's awesome.

[bubba]

Keep it civil in here. This is the only warning I will give you.
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[worry]

One thing I enjoyed about the Barghast story is we get to see fully fleshed out a theme regarding warrior culture that we only get glimpses of before with the BHs. Under Tavore, the BHs always have someone to fight and somewhere to be going, even if they don't have a clear idea why. But the Barghast, especially under Tool, are particularly eager for a fight, and continuously disappointed. And the malaise is getting to them (it's actually getting to the BHs in Lether too by this point, to a different degree). Anyway, this is a real phenomenon that often gets ignored in stories about war, because they tend to go for the climactic. But if you've seen or read Jarhead, then that's a pretty good point of comparison.

Also, the Barghast storyline connects quite directly to Heboric's musings in the prologue:
He understood now. The gods of war and what they meant, what their very existence signified. And as he stared upon those jade suns searing ever closer, he was overwhelmed by the futility hiding behind all this arrogance, this mindless conceit.
See us wave our banners of hate.
See where it gets us.
A final war had begun. Facing an enemy against whom no defense was possible. Neither words nor deeds could fool this clear-eyed arbiter. Immune to lies, indifferent to excuses and vapid discourses on necessity, on the weighing of two evils and the facile righteousness of choosing the lesser one – and yes, these were the arguments he was hearing, empty as the ether they traveled.
We stood tall in paradise. And then called forth the gods of war, to bring destruction down upon ourselves, our world, the very earth, its air, its water, its myriad life. No, show me no surprise, no innocent bewilderment. I see now with the eyes of the Abyss. I see now with my enemy's eyes, and so I shall speak with its voice.
Behold, my friends, I am justice.
And when at last we meet, you shall not like it.
And if irony awakens in you at the end, see me weep with these tears of jade, and answer with a smile.
If you've the courage.
Have you, my friends, the courage?

It's no coincidence that the Malazan world has so many gods of war, and that they are among the oldest of the societal gods (as opposed to dark/light/fire/water). And the Barghast represent in microcosm the mind-numbing futility and destruction of wars everywhere. The irony the Abyss-personified-via-Heboric speaks of is the surprised horror humanity expresses when an outsider comes to destroy everything...despite the fact that it feels no such horror at the mutual self-destruction humanity is always engaged in.

So if you feel the Barghast storyline is a waste of space, you've entirely missed one of if not the major thesis of this volume.

[D'rek]

You can compare WoT, aSoIaF and MBotF in the Other Literature forum, guys - this here thread is about DoD!

One relevant thing I would like to point out - you can't complain about not liking the Barghast plot-line AND also complain about a lack of resolving story-lines. The entire Barghast plot in DoD is a HUGE ending to the Barghast arc (and also very much related to the Grey Swords' plot, now that the GS' avengers are avenged-upon themselves). If you're looking forward to more arc-resolutions in tCG, there will surely be plenty just like this.

[Fenner's Teats]

I agree if anyone is motivated to make this a conclusion worthy of one of the best fantasy series of all time then it's Erickson. Still, you have to let out those emotions. I need closure....I need it bad, I think we all do. I hope with all of my heart and trust we will get it in spades. I love the ending of this book....it's going to be painful waiting for the next one.

I stand by my point on some of the characters. The snake for instance. you are falling on the fallen to consume them.....at this point of the book they should all be insane or close to it but still the thought process was too clear for me, not gritty enough. I know Erickson does an incredible job of infusing grit into a scene or sequence, I still find it annoying that some times the characters are to concise to clear for where they are at...in their heads that is. It sometimes lacks grit. Most people don't spare a situation this level of thinking or thought in most situations, in fact the mind internalises struggle in a much different way...whereas in this book everyones thoughts seem fairly squeeky clean given the external stresss and struggle. I guess I am just saying that most of the characters in this internal dialogue sound too much alike.....too finished...too clean. This is not always the case, but it is many many times. I found in earlier books Erickson wasn't given to this to quite the same degree.

It's a valid point and could be argued, I am sure on both sides. It's how I feel about it.

[Sinisdar Toste]

cleantoe, on 28 February 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 28 February 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

i enjoy WoT as much as the next person, but even books 1-6 don't measure up to tMBotF. im sorry theres just no comparison. if you're actually that put out about wasted pages and pointless storylines in DoD, how could you not have shot yourself in the face trying to get through books 8-10?

Shot myself in the foot? It's not like I'm trying to prove some theory in physics or something. I just prefer one series over the other.

Even the useless subplots in WoT can be entertaining to read--and for the record, I DO gloss over stuff in those series too, like when Robert Jordan wants to describe a piece of clothing in 20,000 words.

face, buddy. face. how you get foot from face i don't know, but replace foot with face in my post and you'll see what i mean.

[worry]

Fenner, on 01 March 2010 - 04:25 AM, said:

I agree if anyone is motivated to make this a conclusion worthy of one of the best fantasy series of all time then it's Erickson. Still, you have to let out those emotions. I need closure....I need it bad, I think we all do. I hope with all of my heart and trust we will get it in spades. I love the ending of this book....it's going to be painful waiting for the next one.

I stand by my point on some of the characters. The snake for instance. you are falling on the fallen to consume them.....at this point of the book they should all be insane or close to it but still the thought process was too clear for me, not gritty enough. I know Erickson does an incredible job of infusing grit into a scene or sequence, I still find it annoying that some times the characters are to concise to clear for where they are at...in their heads that is. It sometimes lacks grit. Most people don't spare a situation this level of thinking or thought in most situations, in fact the mind internalises struggle in a much different way...whereas in this book everyones thoughts seem fairly squeeky clean given the external stresss and struggle. I guess I am just saying that most of the characters in this internal dialogue sound too much alike.....too finished...too clean. This is not always the case, but it is many many times. I found in earlier books Erickson wasn't given to this to quite the same degree.

It's a valid point and could be argued, I am sure on both sides. It's how I feel about it.

I getcha, but I fall on the side that it's appropriate for SE to focus POVs on the characters with the most interesting things to say. The things you're saying are correct, but then you can fill in those gaps yourself with the masses of non-POV characters. Not to mention many of the heavies we hear talk but never get inside their heads much. It's simply not necessary.

For example, with the Snake we get a few perspectives out of thousands, and they are the exceptional characters. We see at least dozens of the children die from drinking from a poisoned well out of desperation. We see the kid with worms resigned to his fate. We see Rutt almost giving up. We even see the Brayderal close to failure. Badalle just happens to be an exceptional member of the Snake, and likewise most of the people we hear from or about in detail are at the head anyway. Hundreds of the kids down the line do give up, and probably several thousand of them are essentially walking zombies by the time they reach the city. That said, they haven't been at this very long at all, nor is their entire journey through a desert.

In other places we've seen the Barghast reduced to their basest level. We see Koryk nearly done in physically AND emotionally (and we can presume many of the other sick do succumb). We see Throatslitter attack Ebron over cheating in the wrong way. We see Lostara Yil worn down nearly to her core. Kisswhere is at her breaking point (her thoughts are shallow, but no doubt the stresses on everyone are getting at her too). Blistig is as he is, and Keneb is at a result at his wits' end. And of course there's Fiddler...who we know is tough enough to take whatever is coming at him, and even he is fraying at the edges. Especially when Hedge is around.

Of course if it comes down to "this character has a larger vocabulary than he should", that simply doesn't bother me regardless of whether it's "true" or not. I don't consider it true, since I think SE chooses the POVs wisely enough and lets the reader conclude on their own which of these characters are typical and which are exceptional (and therefore more likely to provide thoughtful POVs). But it doesn't bother me if he slips up from time to time.

[amphibian]

cleantoe, on 28 February 2010 - 01:45 PM, said:

That clears up a lot for me. To be honest, I don't think I'll do a re-read of the series. There's too many books. Is it laziness? Yes it is, so I will have to live with the uncertainty and not truly knowing everything it seems everyone else knows.

I think you'll find that being good at a pursuit requires a bit more work than what you're willing to put in this. Most people here are of the opinion this series rewards re-reading in a way that is unusual in literature - let alone SF. The MBotF may not strike you sufficiently to draw forth such efforts from you, but considering that you've read this many books and formed opinions about them. I re-emphasize the value of re-reads that others have expressed. I think you'll get a bunch from them and perhaps enjoy different bits as the reading pace changes. I know I did and still do.

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Things that don't need to be kept secret are stuff such as what Fiddler's last reading of the Deck meant. Why was he hiding what it meant? Why did it spell certain doom even though no one could have foreseen encountering the Short Tails? Why did this affect Tavore's decision? It's stupid secrets like this that SE intentionally makes cliffhangers to keep our interest. The series is damn good and I'm glad I read it, but for crying out loud, not every secret needs to be a secret!

Which reminds me. Someone mentioned in response to me that Fiddler avoids Deck readings because it attracts power, something he wants to avoid. That's understandable, but why did he slowly stop doing the deck readings altogether when he used to do them damn near every night when he was in the Bridgeburners? Not wanting to do one with 13 is understandable, I'd run too. But what about the smaller readings he was asked to do and he would always whine about it and stuff? Before he was eager, and now he just whines.

Fiddler was using the Deck to gamble. His sensitivity, ability to sweet talk people and valuable co-conspirator in Hedge made those sessions pretty dang profitable. That was the reason for the "smaller readings" you refer to.

If you've gambled, you may know that getting a good game together is at least partly based on camaraderie. Since Fiddler switched armies, became responsible for people/the army as a whole, realized he was on a path full of heavies that he didn't want to confront and became crucial to the plots, he's not developed a similar situation where he's comfortable messing around with something that brings Elder Gods ready to kill everyone to the door. The gambling was during a largely "small potatoes" war and there weren't nearly as many ascendants and gods interested.

Tavore is flat out the most interesting character to me. There has been no POV from her, every scene depicting her is basically terse and in public and we have no idea what information she's acting on - except that it is pretty dang good. Why did Fiddler's reading alter her plan? I dunno. I suspect we will see in TCG and it will surprise us.

As to why Fiddler kept the readings vague: he goes in sort of a trance and may not understand everything he does, except that it makes "sense" within the gestalt. He's a "natural", while others like Tattersail or Tayschrenn arrived at their understandings through a more analytical path. Plus, what was said in the reading really only mattered to the planners - not the actual grunts. Too much information can cripple an army.