Malazan Empire: Wtf at "Whiskeyjack had Kallor?" - Malazan Empire

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Wtf at "Whiskeyjack had Kallor?"

#1 Guest_Hikkie_*

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 02:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Demon Pyrokronix:
One also says "the bastard had Kallor" which is completely untrue. I mean, we're not talking about some weak simpleton here, we're talking about one of the most powerful beings on Genebackis, and he was almost beaten by Whiskeyjacks' "dueslist lunge?"

and good fighters have died by unknown ones, because they were arrogant and underestimated their opponent or because the unknown also had an unknown way of fighting or just simply bad luck.
I dont really believe in the whole a strong person can only be killed by someone stronger and I dont think SE actually does himself either. Sure its tougher to kill a strong opponent, but just because the odds are small doesnt mean it wont happen.
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#2 Guest_Eru Iluvatar_*

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 03:12 PM

And what about Silchas Ruin? Traveller? Brys Beddict? Tool? Cotillion? Knight Of Hood? Mael? Icarium? Iron Bars?
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#3 Guest_Hikkie_*

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 10:23 AM

wasnt Rakes sword actually designed for kallor aswell? Draconus mentions the sword he is forging after the cursing of kallor (and the elder gods) and also says he has to alter the plans for it. So I think it was Draconus plan to use the sword on kallor, off course now Draconus plan is to break the sword I think (Well he wants to get out ofc and somehow the sword needs to be dealt with(havent read HoC+MT yet), but I hope there is another way than just breaking it and releasing all the souls in it.
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#4 Guest_Demon Pyrokronix_*

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 03:13 AM

If Korlat goes after Kallor... Korlat is doomed. Despited how much vengeance burns inside her heart Kallor will still kill her. I don't think Rake, her or Orfantal will be the one to kill him.

Damn I can't wait for the next book Kallor's in!!!
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#5 Guest_Avadhani_*

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 07:40 AM

Thanks for making it clear..................And I wasn't yelling,just TRYING to make myself CLEAR Posted Image.

How can anyone ascend or become god. Did Dancer and Kellanved do something special when they were alive? Because in DHG- Stormy and co get exposed and survive that fire warren aboard Silanda and they ALMOST ascended. Now what does that mean....Almost. Do they have to do something more to ascend or is it only one shot process like either you are or you are not.
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#6 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 07:04 AM

dude...why are you yelling lol. It's strength isn't the only thing that counts. Besides WJ isn't normal. He's a Bridgeburner. An elite. Raruku changed them all. Why do you think everyone goes silent everytime a Bridgeburner comes forth. Dancer himself would've thought twice before taking on Kalam in a duel and Dancer was good enough to become a God.
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#7 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 07:47 AM

Oldest question in the book. We haven't the slightest idea.
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#8 User is offline   vaiski 

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 03:45 PM

Agree with Folken.

Also, Kallor is not the same he was 100000 years ago. Especially when it comes to swordfighting.. he hasn't ascended, hi is still alive because of the curse and the various potions & stuff he uses.. he is not in the same shape he was back then.

And, as Dujek pointed out, WJ sparred with Dassem. NoK offers a glimpse of just how good Dassem is.. and sparring or not, if WJ held his ground against Dassem, that is no small feat.
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#9 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 03:25 PM

You must understand the way Steven Erikson writes his novels is close to the way real people would have real conversations. WJ was dear to the Malazan army. He was their leader and they would've followed him into the Abyss if he had commanded. Ofcourse they're going to talk like that. Naturally they would think that the reason WJ lost the battle was because of that leg. Steven himself has admitted the he twists facts during conversations between two people, because thats how reality is. Once you get to House of Chains and Midnight Tides you will understand more.

And no WJ did have a clean shot at Kallor. He was distracted at the moment and he WJ leg not given way he would've been able to get Kallor.
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#10 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 03:38 PM

we've seen him use it once, and all that was against regular marines. WJ had a clear shot, doesn't mean WJ would've killed him in an outright duel. He just had a CLEAR shot, but his leg gave way, which allowed Kallor to regroup and kill him. WJ isn't an idiot to lunge at someone without the right opportunity. If you read the passage again, Kallor's foot or heel gets stuck somewhere and thats when WJ lunged at him. So a CLEAR shot.

Besides I anticipate a nice showdown between Kallor and one of the Andii's, Korlat or OrfantalPosted Image
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#11 Guest_Demon Pyrokronix_*

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 02:42 PM

Near the end of Memories of Ice, some malazans are talking about how Whiskeyjack only got killed because he leg gave out while he was trying to do a duelist lunge. One also says "the bastard had Kallor" which is completely untrue. I mean, we're not talking about some weak simpleton here, we're talking about one of the most powerful beings on Genebackis, and he was almost beaten by Whiskeyjacks' "dueslist lunge?" Get real malazan man, there are perhaps 5 beings I could think of that could defeat Kallor. Anomander Rake, Osseric, Caladan Brood, Karsa Orlong and that masked swordsman #1 (sorry the name escapes me.) Whiskeyjack was sure as NOT one of them. Things like that just annoy me, because Kallor is evily powerful and Whiskeyjack, as cool as he is, just doesn't have it in him to take Kallor.
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#12 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 03:56 PM

@Demon Pyrokronix - its Jen'isand...or stick with Folken if thats to hard

WJ has sparred with Daseem, someone Kallor has not faced. And Daseem is regarded highly amongst the Ascendants.
quote:
MoI MMPB - 1009pg
"Kallor, you choose your enemies well. Have you ever crossed weapons with Anomander Rake? Daseem Ultor? Greymane? The Selugh First?"


So as you can see...Posted Image
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
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#13 Guest_Avadhani_*

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 08:01 AM

Who are you talking to Folken Fanel? If it is me then you are thoroughly mistaken, I am on YOUR side. I am as eager as you are to see Kallor's ass whupped!! Posted Image.

It's been over an year since I read MOI, thats the reason all the finer details are slipping away like fine sand eg-Capture Kallor ALIVE, I dont remember that, I wonder what Rake wants to converse with him about before letting Korlat to do the TALKINGPosted Image.
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#14 Guest_Demon Pyrokronix_*

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 02:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Eru Iluvatar:
And what about Silchas Ruin? Traveller? Brys Beddict? Tool? Cotillion? Knight Of Hood? Mael? Icarium? Iron Bars?


I've never heard of Silchas, Brys, Mael ot Iron Bars but I'm sure Kallor could take Tool, Baudin and Icarium judging on previous battles and fights. Cotillion could probably defeat Kallor but just look at powerful the dude is. And no he may not be what he was 10000 years ago but he's still damned powerful. He killed both them swordswomen at the same time and from Eriksons description they were bladesmasters.

And J'enison, I surmised as much but still I got a bit annoyed because Kallor is in my top 5 fave charecters Posted Image
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#15 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 06:50 AM

See all your comments make it seem like you haven't read MoI. Time and time again we're told that Kallor is scared ****less of Anomander. So I don't see how he would win, in a straight fight. Unless ofcourse good old Crippled God is helping then yes it is entirely possible Anomander can lose.
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#16 Guest_Avadhani_*

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 06:11 AM

Look, I dont GET ONE THING clear man!

Daseem is great, Daseem is almighty and add anyother titles you people want to, but HE definitly is more STRONGER, POWERFUL, FASTER, and AGILE than a NORMAL human being RIGHT? This is becasue he became the Knight of the High House of Death right?

If all this is true how the HECK can a NORMAL humanbeing like whiskeyJack sparr with HIM and HOLD his ground? Is whiskey Jack a NORMAL humanbeing? I have seen threads in the forums where people voted for Daseem to be one of the BEST swordsman rivalling both RAKE and ICARIUM. Who definitly are not NORMAL. SO how can WJ fight like that.
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#17 User is offline   Folken 

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 07:04 PM

Exactly. Daseem was made Mortal Sword/Knight(if Hetan's theory is correct and I do side wit her) of High House Death. So Daseem was granted even greater power and by the time of his death his power had begun to rival that of Hood. So WJ was pretty strong. He just didn't have to go into battle as often anymore because he of his high rank and the fact that the BB's were relegated to a worthless company.
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#18 Guest_Avadhani_*

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 08:27 PM

You are right, I dont think Kallor will die by Rake's hands(actually sword). I am sure He will confront him, but then leave the execution to Korlat.
She alone deserves to finish that guy off.
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#19 User is offline   vaiski 

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 03:15 PM

Well I for one am little doubtful about Korlat's and Orfantal's chances of capturing Kallor.

I don't know whether Kallor can use sorcery, but back in the day them eight mighty wizards didn't go to confront Kallor directly, instead they chose to trap an alien god in an effort to get him to kill Kallor.

Point being, they did not attack Kallor themselves. Maybe it was because Kallor had mage cadres to defend him, maybe it was something else..
In MoI Kallor threatens to release the chains between QB's souls, also says that he could destroy Gethol.. now Gethol is not the same as his brother but he is still a Jaghut.
Also in MoI, Rake orders Korlat to command the full power of Andii agains Kallor should he err, a precaution, but still seems pretty strong considering that in the end he seems confident that Korlat and Orfantal are capable of capturing Kallor.
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#20 Guest_Dakkareth_*

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 05:50 PM

A big part of Kallor's power might be the fact, that not much is actually known about him. Yes, he did have that empire and he destroyed it. Yes, he's a good swordsman and picks his enemies carefully. But beyond that? Any mortal (as opposed to an ascendant, archmage, etc) surviving for such a long time is bound to have a few nasty tricks up his sleeve. Remember the part about ascendancy and experience being linked in MoI - even though he is no ascendant, imagine the experience of one like Kallor ...

And yes, there seems to be more to him than just skill with the sword.
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