[D'rek]

Number 3 in the great Tree Trilogy.

Click to download full size:



Bordered rectangles - unique/major races
Rectangles - offshoot races
Ellipses - significant racial variations

I didn't research this one as thoroughly, so will need your help discussing and fixing this!

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Edits: Switched to v2 on March 21st

This post has been edited by D'rek: 24 July 2010 - 03:45 AM

[Illuyankas]

1. You haven't connected Humans to Imass.
2. Can you make the Shake type white, or lighten their colour? I had to download the image to make out the word.

[Aptorian]

About the shake. Maybe you need to put two generations of Shake on to the map? One Elder Race, one mortal race, as they apparently preceded the Edur, according to Yeden. They are are older than the Edur and maybe even the other Tiste all though I can't remember the details.

Maybe a line stipulated line from the dragons to KCCM?

Also, this racial tree, is it only about the different races we know have mingled or is it every species we know from the series?

In the last case you would need to add, maybe at the bottom unconnected, the extinct cat people of coral and various demon species, like the royal Kenrylalala, and the lowborn Kenrylalala, the Korvhala (sp?), Aptorians, Aszan, Galyan Lord, The demon from MoI that Quick free's that may be one of Grey Frogs species.

Also, about the eleint, should there perhaps be a seperate coloumn linking Eleint with Wyvals, En'karal, etc?

And since you added Storm Riders maybe add Nachts as a species in a box close to the Jaghut.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 February 2010 - 10:58 PM

[Illuyankas]

The cat dudes in Coral weren't actually feline people, they were just another regional group of humans.

[Aptorian]

Is this secret Erikson information from the BBQ or perhaps something from one of the B&KB books? I just know there were some cat dudes whom the Tenescowri thought were tasty.

[Illuyankas]

Called catmen, but with no cheezburgr qualities.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 05 February 2010 - 10:45 PM, said:

About the shake. Maybe you need to put two generations of Shake on to the map? One Elder Race, one mortal race, as they apparently preceded the Edur, according to Yeden. They are are older than the Edur and maybe even the other Tiste all though I can't remember the details.

Yeah, that may be necessary. They are confuzzling as heck.

Maybe a line stipulated line from the dragons to KCCM?

Aye, except that DoD seems to imply that there may, in fact, be no real connection

Also, this racial tree, is it only about the different races we know have mingled or is it every species we know from the series?

In the last case you would need to add, maybe at the bottom unconnected, the extinct cat people of coral and various demon species, like the royal Kenrylalala, and the lowborn Kenrylalala, the Korvhala (sp?), Aptorians, Aszan, Galyan Lord, The demon from MoI that Quick free's that may be one of Grey Frogs species.

Not including any demons, there's about 20 of 'em and all would be completely seperate entities from the rest of the tree. Not to mention that we see 1 or 2 of each race only. Didn't seem to be much point.

Also, about the eleint, should there perhaps be a seperate coloumn linking Eleint with Wyvals, En'karal, etc?

Sentient races only. Otherwise I'd have to start adding Ay, Deragoth, Okral, HoS, HoL, Jhag horses, etc...

And since you added Storm Riders maybe add Nachts as a species in a box close to the Jaghut.

There's a handful of weird pseudo-demonic magic creations of the jaghut (Nachts, the FA-imitation statues, etc), but they mostly seem only marginally sentient and would probably be demonic anyways. Stormriders are a bit different in that they show a fair bit of culturally distinct, sentient action AND we don't yet understand them enough to say they *aren't* another race.

By the way, I was totally just guessing at the Trell. I think their racial parentage was said somewhere, but I couldn't remember it. Jaghut-Thel Akai??

Humans is the hardest of all, said to be spawned numerous different ways from the Imass and yet these ways are frequently refuted. Quotes for that would be highly appreciated.

[Aptorian]

Generally I think the Eres -> Imass -> Humans evolution is a given. It's Erikson taking the theory of human evolution and making it develop over the course of 500.000 years. The Eres are probably the proverbial missing link between Monkey and Man.

If I'm not mistaken I think some more was probably revealed in the talk between Dream Treach and the Jaguar lady in Gruntles sleep, about these Eres.

[Mischiefs' Folly]

I know in BH when the Nameless ones were freeing dejim, they each gave a little speech.

Spoiler

'Barghast, Trell, Tartheno Toblakai,' said the seventh priest, his voice a rumble, 'these are the surviving threads of Imass blood, no matter their claims to purity. Such claims are inventions, yet inventions have purpose. They assert distinction, they redirect the path walked before, and the path to come, They shape the emblems upon the standards in every war, and so give justification to slaughter. Their purpose, therefore, is to assert convenient lies. By the warren of Tellan, I invoke the ritual of release.'

(BH, US TPB p.28)

This post has been edited by Mischiefs' Folly: 06 February 2010 - 03:14 AM

[Aptorian]

Mischiefs, on 06 February 2010 - 03:06 AM, said:

I know in BH when the Nameless ones were freeing dejim, they each gave a little speech.

Spoiler

'Barghast, Trell, Tartheno Toblakai,' said the seventh priest, his voice a rumble, 'these are the surviving threads of Imass blood, no matter their claims to purity. Such claims are inventions, yet inventions have purpose. They assert distinction, they redirect the path walked before, and the path to come, They shape the emblems upon the standards in every war, and so give justification to slaughter. Their purpose, therefore, is to assert convenient lies. By the warren of Tellan, I invoke the ritual of release.'

(BH, US TPB p.28)

Yeah, that sounds like Imass propaganda/ideology from a random scholar/priest of Tellan, not so much a trust worthy source about ancient history.

I don't think this speaker knows about the Thel Akai or maybe when he uses the name Tartheno Toblakai he is referring to that one branch of giants living on Lether, who could very well have mingled, all though it is a bit disturbing to imagine a 5 foot humanoid mating with a 8-9 foot humanoid.

[KeithF]

Shouldn't the K'Chain Nah'Ruk be below the K'Chain Che'Malle, rather than the other way round, or even shown as an offshoot rather than a separate race? I had the impression the KCCM created the KCNR.

Boy, this series has more races and subraces than any other fantasy world I can think of except ones used for RPGs...of course, it did start out as an RPG setting, which probably explains all the weird hybrids.

"Hey Steve, I want to play a badass half-giant type character! Can you make a template for that?"
"Sure, just let me fit them into the history..."

[Aptorian]

In MoI Kallor speaks of the KCCM Matrons ressurecting the Nahruk, who were ancestors of the current species of KCCM. So, the Nahruk came first.

[Ulrik]

I stick with eresal - imass - human line. Its "copy" of australopithecus - homo erectus - homo sapiens line. It surprises me that someone took it other way, IMO its pretty often stated in books (especially HoC iirc), but cant right now look up anything in books.

And I think that part of barghast and toblakai blood is offspring from same line. (but Im not so sure like in imass-humans case)

[theliverpuncher]

D, on 05 February 2010 - 10:23 PM, said:

Number 3 in the great Tree Trilogy.

Click to download full size:

Spoiler

Bordered rectangles - unique/major races
Rectangles - offshoot races
Ellipses - significant racial variations

I didn't research this one as thoroughly, so will need your help discussing and fixing this!

Cool stuff - I think you should note that the Motts Regulars Clan were created by the Jaghut... And I'd recommend noting that Kilmadaros as the creator of the Toblakai.

[Aptorian]

theliverpuncher, on 06 February 2010 - 06:26 PM, said:

And I'd recommend noting that Kilmadaros as the creator of the Toblakai.

Why?

The only reference I remember that just barely suggests that there is a link between Killy and the Giant races was the confusion when Mael mentions a giant hag in connection with Iccys mom and the fact that Karsa saw some TTT blood in Iccy.

All of this is guess work and nothing else suggests there is any relation between the EG and the giants.

What we do have confirmation of now, is that Knuckles is the son of Killy, and seeing as they bear some similarities in their look, it's far more possible that Killy's lost children are in fact the Forkrul Assail.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 06 February 2010 - 06:51 PM

[Mischiefs' Folly]

I always thought of the Barghast as a mix of Imass and Thelomen. You hear about them in MT how they plied the sea together and fought the Edur.

[D'rek]

Mischiefs, on 06 February 2010 - 09:08 PM, said:

I always thought of the Barghast as a mix of Imass and Thelomen. You hear about them in MT how they plied the sea together and fought the Edur.

In MoI (I think) the Barghast are specifically said to be Imass who missed the ritual and over generations of breeding with Toblakai on their boats became what they are now.

[Mischiefs' Folly]

I think your right. Prob when Paran is talking with The Achievant.

[theliverpuncher]

Aptorian, on 06 February 2010 - 06:50 PM, said:

theliverpuncher, on 06 February 2010 - 06:26 PM, said:

And I'd recommend noting that Kilmadaros as the creator of the Toblakai.

Why?

The only reference I remember that just barely suggests that there is a link between Killy and the Giant races was the confusion when Mael mentions a giant hag in connection with Iccys mom and the fact that Karsa saw some TTT blood in Iccy.

All of this is guess work and nothing else suggests there is any relation between the EG and the giants.

What we do have confirmation of now, is that Knuckles is the son of Killy, and seeing as they bear some similarities in their look, it's far more possible that Killy's lost children are in fact the Forkrul Assail.

In DOD it mentions that Kilmandros has four lungs - just like the Tobs (Giants). Also, Kil's penchant for chaos/ destruction is the cultural norm among the giants too.

[Aptorian]

Ahh, the four lungs is an excellent catch.

Still you want to make a clear cut connection between the TTT and Killy based on the fact that she has four lungs and she may, perhaps, at one time, sheboinged poor Gothos?

Hardly even circumstantial evidence.