[Jorram]

There is a bit of evidence to support the TTT cause and in fact it's not unthinkable that she can both (it would be interesting) but i think it's safe to err on the FA side - the Knuckles issue is way too strong. You could argue that four lungs and flexijoints negate each other as evidence but a true FA calling her "Mother" is a sort of a dead giveaway.

The chart is cool My only problem is the TTT/Jaghut/Jhag/Trell part. It's clearly implied in that Karsa scene in HoC that Jhags are offspring of TTT and Jaghuts. Nothing so clear has ever been said about the Trell except the vague reference of Imass blood (it's vague because the priest then goes on and says the claims for pure blood might be totally random for all we know).

I remember some topics way before about the genetics of Trell and the possibility of them being Jaghut+Imass offspring, unlikely as it would seem.

This post has been edited by Jorram: 07 February 2010 - 06:38 PM

[theliverpuncher]

Aptorian, on 07 February 2010 - 05:45 PM, said:

Ahh, the four lungs is an excellent catch.

Still you want to make a clear cut connection between the TTT and Killy based on the fact that she has four lungs and she may, perhaps, at one time, sheboinged poor Gothos?

Hardly even circumstantial evidence.

The combination of the lungs clue, plus the Toblaki's pathos for chaos are good enough for me.

[theliverpuncher]

Jorram, on 07 February 2010 - 06:34 PM, said:

There is a bit of evidence to support the TTT cause and in fact it's not unthinkable that she can both (it would be interesting) but i think it's safe to err on the FA side - the Knuckles issue is way too strong. You could argue that four lungs and flexijoints negate each other as evidence but a true FA calling her "Mother" is a sort of a dead giveaway.

The chart is cool My only problem is the TTT/Jaghut/Jhag/Trell part. It's clearly implied in that Karsa scene in HoC that Jhags are offspring of TTT and Jaghuts. Nothing so clear has ever been said about the Trell except the vague reference of Imass blood (it's vague because the priest then goes on and says the claims for pure blood might be totally random for all we know).

I remember some topics way before about the genetics of Trell and the possibility of them being Jaghut+Imass offspring, unlikely as it would seem.

Couldn't see be the mother of both the FAs and Toblaki?

[Aptorian]

Liver Puncher have you read Return of the Crimson Guard? More importantly, do you remember the Tel Akai?

[maro]

No matter how many times I read it, the Tarthenal/Toblakai shenanigans still confuses me!

[theliverpuncher]

Aptorian, on 07 February 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

Liver Puncher have you read Return of the Crimson Guard? More importantly, do you remember the Tel Akai?

No, I haven't read the Crimson Guard. So my apologies for my conjucture if that book proved it to be baseless...

[Aptorian]

It sort of does.

Go buy the book, quickly!

[Vesper]

Leave it to an anthropologist to make a world filled with evolutionary offshoots, cul-de-sacs, and vestiges. Figuring out where all the different races fit in remains one of the most frustrating elements of this series for me. No convenient history buff has sat down with some history-ignoramus and explained for the benefit of the reader where races diverged, merged, or stopped. Instead there are minor explanations of minor points thrown in throughout the novels -- in the middle of chapters, at that -- making it exceedingly difficult to remember all the details given. And it's not like these books have lengthy, comprehensive appendices like Tolkien's novels, either.

Personally, I am really happy with the depth Erikson gives to the world and story, but sometimes I just want to beat the books over my head.

[Abyss]

It's implied in MoI that Moranth are a Barghast/Tiste Edur offshoot.

Barghast themselves were originally Imass/T3, but likely some human is mixed in.

Technically, we don't know whether the Nahruk were just another spawn made by the Matrons, as opposed to a precursor to the KC. And Matrons should probably have their own block.

We only know of one demon/human crossbreed from

Spoiler

RCG - Vorcan's daughter

.

TtH suggests

Spoiler

FA and human can crossbreed

.

- Abyss, a breed apart.

[Jorram]

Heeeeh how does TtH suggest that?

[Imperial Historian]

Quote

It's implied in MoI that Moranth are a Barghast/Tiste Edur offshoot.

I'm hesitant to imply interbreeding from that conversation, the suggestion seemed to be that the barghast talked to a remanent of edur, who very shortly after died out, but not before the barghast learned things from them. I don't know if there is enough evidence to suggest that the barghast and edur interbred.

Oh and nice work on the racial tree D'rek, looks pretty good to me!

[Sinisdar Toste]

Jorram, on 11 February 2010 - 11:55 AM, said:

Heeeeh how does TtH suggest that?

i think he means DoD,

Spoiler

as it is pretty explicitly stated therein

[Sheve]

Trells have some daemon blood in them aswell, someone in DoD mentions that the daemons Venath gave some of there blood to create the trells.
Cant for the life of me find the quote right now.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i remember that as well. perhaps... sandalath?

[D'rek]

Version 2 is done and uploaded in the OP. Added in demonic races, Ravens, Mott and a few other changes. Feedback always welcome!

[Dolmen 2.0]

very nice work Drek.

a pity about the lack of a link between the elient and kchain. I've always felt they had
a connection, ever since MoI I suspected it. the winged shigan variation of K'chain are a particularly
close example of draconic tendancies.

I should go over my books to see if any more hints support this...

[Harvester]

Wasn't it stated somewhere in RG that the KCCM are the first children of the Eleint?

This post has been edited by Harvester: 18 April 2010 - 12:03 AM

[worry]

I don't recall a specific passage or anything, but I believe there was later suggestion that it was self-aggrandizing/wishful thinking on the KCCM part. Not that that perspective is any more conclusive than the pro-Elient connection one. But to the reader, it's all still an unknown.

[Sullen]

With regards to the Eres -> Imass -> Humans evolution idea, after reading DoD and seeing how the surviving Imass competed with the humans before their own failed 2nd ritual, it seems to me that the Imass are more the Neanderthal to our Homo Sapiens rather than an Erectus type ancestor. All the references to choosing the wrong enemy, I just don't think they'd talk like that about their own descendants.

The only way for it to work would be if only ONE tribe of Imass bred with another (unspecified) race in a remote location and gave rise to the humans we see today, this would leave all the surviving Imass with the impression that humans were a separate race.

This does, however raise the question of where and when humans appeared and make it all very messy again.

[Aptorian]

It is mentioned somewhere, somewhen that humans are the children of Imass.