[beru]

that...


is a....



good IDEA!

they probably are... i wonder if kalam does a re apreance....

[Abyss]

I'm still expecting an 'assassins cadre' of Kalam, Leoman, WJ's sister, Apsalar, Cutter and perhaps Cowl (pre-emptive note: yes, yes, i know sis and Leo aren't assassins but they were taken by the QoD and she's allied to ST as far as we know) to be sent at the CG.

Both Cot's knives are described as more or less identical. Iirc, Kalam's long-knives were different, one otataral forged.

But it's still possible and an inherently cool idea.



- Abyss, wants to see gods-level STABBY!!!

[Hetan]

Salk Elan, on 22 December 2009 - 05:24 PM, said:

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the knives... they are Kalam's knives, right? – After all Apsalar gave them to ST after finishing off Pearl. And it fits for me from the description of the blades… the 'weathered' edges and all… and the way he seems to examine them.

If I'm right it means, they are not 'normal' daggers, in the strict sense… but would maybe enable Cots to do things he even could not do with his mighty rope? (Cutting the chains of the CG for example?)

Didn't sound like Kalams knives to me.. besides which one of them would be otataral and I doubt he could wield it?

I just know that I'm really looking forward to reading this book. SE has never let me down in terms of a reading experience and I know it's going to be a great read.

Edit : oops, just read Abyss' post over the page so sorry for the duplication re the knives.

[Salk Elan]

OK, point taken. Maybe they're not, and it was just my first over-excited reaction to this precious snippet SE kindly provided us with. But it WAS my first overwhelming impression.

But why should he not be able to wield the otataral one? I'm not speaking of using warrens while holding it. But simply using it?

[amphibian]

Salk Elan, on 22 December 2009 - 09:55 PM, said:

OK, point taken. Maybe they're not, and it was just my first over-excited reaction to this precious snippet SE kindly provided us with. But it WAS my first overwhelming impression.

But why should he not be able to wield the otataral one? I'm not speaking of using warrens while holding it. But simply using it?

Poleil died from a sliver of otataral stuck in her hand. I think almost everyone here is going off that to extend their logic to "thus gods would not want to be around otataral much".

Which makes me believe Karsa is indeed a great choice to kill a god - because he's been imbued with otataral for so long, his body is somewhat antithetical to them.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 22 December 2009 - 10:20 PM

[Urizen]

amphibian, on 22 December 2009 - 10:19 PM, said:

Salk Elan, on 22 December 2009 - 09:55 PM, said:

OK, point taken. Maybe they're not, and it was just my first over-excited reaction to this precious snippet SE kindly provided us with. But it WAS my first overwhelming impression.

But why should he not be able to wield the otataral one? I'm not speaking of using warrens while holding it. But simply using it?

Poleil died from a sliver of otataral stuck in her hand. I think almost everyone here is going off that to extend their logic to "thus gods would not want to be around otataral much".

Which makes me believe Karsa is indeed a great choice to kill a god - because he's been imbued with otataral for so long, his body is somewhat antithetical to them.

Actually Poliel was torn apart by the Deregoth. THe sliver of otataral just kept her in place until the Deregoth arrived.

[Ulrik]

Yep, she was tron by bad dogs and was unable to move due to otataral shard.

I think Cotilion can use otataral knife but is unable to use some warren aspected abilities. (Oh, it sound so RPGish)

[amphibian]

Urizen, on 22 December 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

Actually Poliel was torn apart by the Deregoth. THe sliver of otataral just kept her in place until the Deregoth arrived.

What's weird is that I keep messing up this scene and you're not the first to correct my misrepresentations.

Would it be fair to say that if it had struck a vital part, it'd have done much more damage than paralyzing her with pain?

[MTS]

Well, yes, but that's because it's a sharp piece of metal, not because it's Otataral. She's in the mortal realm, I believe, so she's as vulnerable as a normal human. The Otataral stopped her from using her warren to GTFO.

[amphibian]

Mappo, on 23 December 2009 - 06:13 AM, said:

Well, yes, but that's because it's a sharp piece of metal, not because it's Otataral. She's in the mortal realm, I believe, so she's as vulnerable as a normal human. The Otataral stopped her from using her warren to GTFO.

I'm very certain that the pain she was experiencing was more than physical. Otataral is like Kryptonite to a magic user - removes powers, physically weakens and lots of pain if it's forcibly injected into the body.

[MTS]

Mages on Otataral Island didn't seem as affected by it, and they were surrounded by it. Hell, they even ingested the stuff.

[T'renn]

Personally, I thought it was more likely he was going to take on Killy and Setch. But setting free the dragons seems plausible as well. Shadowthrone betraying him doesn't.

[Salk Elan]

Urizen, on 22 December 2009 - 10:39 PM, said:

<br style=""> <br style="">

Actually Poliel was torn apart by the Deregoth. THe sliver of otataral just kept her in place until the Deregoth arrived.

That was exactly my point.
Poliel was wounded by the otataral blade and it had a devastating effect on her. But I don't expect Cotillion to cut himself with it. So mere holding it might rob him of his magical power, might even hurt him. – But it would not hinder him actually using it, if it needs to be done, I think.

So, and now I'm not going to harp on this anymore, and go back to my default-mode, lurking only.

[Ulrik]

Ulrik, on 22 December 2009 - 07:17 AM, said:

Abyss, on 21 December 2009 - 08:52 PM, said:

"Even should you succeed, Cotillion. Beyond all expectation, beyond, even, all desire. They will still speak of your failure."

Who? They as "humanity"? Or exact group?
Also why victory would be seen as failure? Killing Ammanas (I said that months before!) comes to my mind but... so early? Ooooh, but killing D´rek and destroying all poisoned warrens... thats something other.

Ohhh, not D´rek, K´rul... damn, faux pas, shame...

[blackzoid]

Cotillion is going to die in this book. Its unavoidable. This scene just confirmed it in my opinion. I'm getting a whole "Rake's last goodbye" kind of vibe from it.

Also does anyone else notice the subtext of Cotillion=SE/ICE and Edgewalker = "Early Canadian publishers who didn't take the MBotF becasue they thought it was too complicated"?

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 23 December 2009 - 10:21 AM

[Abyss]

Consider what we know of Cotilion to date - Apsalar says he's probably the most 'human' of gods, and we see the effect the children's deaths in TB had on him. He's been supporting ST but also playing his own game, and putting agents like Cutter, Apsalar, Lostara, Kalam... as well as Trull, Onrack and QB in RG, into key places just as events happen that require them to act.

He seems to have a basic 'loyalty' to humanity - funny for a god of assassins, but even so it's there, maybe because he has a daughter running around.

I tend to agree the excerpt screams 'upcoming noble sacrifice', where he can't win but by losing he will succeed in whatever he's trying to do.

amphibian, on 22 December 2009 - 10:19 PM, said:

Salk Elan, on 22 December 2009 - 09:55 PM, said:

...why should he not be able to wield the otataral one? I'm not speaking of using warrens while holding it. But simply using it?

Poleil died from a sliver of otataral stuck in her hand. I think almost everyone here is going off that to extend their logic to "thus gods would not want to be around otataral much".

Which makes me believe Karsa is indeed a great choice to kill a god - because he's been imbued with otataral for so long, his body is somewhat antithetical to them.

We don't really know the extent of effect of Otataral on warren-based gods. ST lost his powers, including his fuzziness, when he lifted Kalam's knife in TB, but the shadow demons still obeyed him. Poliel was stuck in the 'world' by the shard in her hand, and it hurt like hell but it wouldn't have killed her immediately, tho poisoning might. There was a nameless mage in DG who went absolutely bugnuts due to otataral poisoning.

In theory Cots could use the knife but only have his 'human' skills - no shadowstuff weapons, no floating or teleporting.

Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on 23 December 2009 - 07:26 AM, said:

Personally, I thought it was more likely he was going to take on Killy and Setch. But setting free the dragons seems plausible as well. Shadowthrone betraying him doesn't.

I have to admit, the visual of Cots stepping into Kila and Setch's path is really working for me now.

blackzoid, on 23 December 2009 - 10:20 AM, said:

Cotillion is going to die in this book. Its unavoidable. This scene just confirmed it in my opinion. I'm getting a whole "Rake's last goodbye" kind of vibe from it.

I'm there.

Quote

Also does anyone else notice the subtext of Cotillion=SE/ICE and Edgewalker = "Early Canadian publishers who didn't take the MBotF becasue they thought it was too complicated"?

I doubt it, but it's funny to think so.


- Abyss, has the same problem with Dr Seuss...

[champ]

Best Christmas present ever?

Anyway down to business...

Quote

Oh how he was sick of that. "Tell me," he resumed, "what do you think you're seeing here? Desperation? Panic? A failing of will, some inevitable decline crumbling to incompetence? Do you believe in failure, Edgewalker?"
Edgewalker remained silent for a time, and then the apparition spoke in a broken, rasping voice. "You cannot be so … audacious."
"I asked if you believed in failure. Because I don't."

I've read the whole extract countless times now and been wondering on this part as have most, we know this is one of the opening scenes, and going back to the end of DoD with the final battle, could this be how some of the Bonehunters survived and managed a retreat.

"what do you thing you're seeing here? Desperation? Panic?

The arrival of the Nah'ruk must surely of come of a shock to everyone. Desperation/Panic... The decimation of the Bonehunters could seriously ruin some scheme plus as said, hes the most human god, hes personally involved with some of the Bonehunters. Now I know Cots is not admitting to feeling these emotions but hes mentioned them for a reason

"I asked if you believed in failure. Because I don't."

Cots to the rescue anyone against insane odds?

Even further on:

"They will not believe you."
"I do not care, Edgewalker. This is what it is."

Could be hes going to give a few home nasty truths to our favourite commanders?

I maybe way off the mark as him paying a visit to the 3 dragons sounds just as likely, but my thoughts anyhow!

This post has been edited by champooon: 23 December 2009 - 08:25 PM

[Silencer]

It will be interesting to see if the 90% chance of Cotillion dying comes true. If it does, then I'd be looking for something like Surly in RotCG. He wins, the battle is over...then the one thing that the two greatest schemers ever in existence overlooked comes out to end him. The one enemy that they didn't plan on having.

Consider what all their current 'allies' have to gain by turning on ST and Cotillion when they are at their most vulnerable. It's kind of inevitable...which makes me wonder how many gods Cotillion is going to have to try and kill. The 'desperation/panic' could be indicative of a forthcoming huge sacrifice on the pair's part - whether that be human, their own, or the severing of certain ties to the world (death of the gods could be considered failure, for example, if it also involves their descent to mortality).

Argh. There is just so much in this book that I am looking forward to. QB alive/dead. Draconus. Cotillion (I will weep for his death...one of my absolute fav characters). There's probably a lot more than that, but it's just sooooo much. Can't think about it all at once.

[Ulrik]

I thinl that "panic" must be tied to some unpredicted events - my guess - Mauling of BH by Nahruk (but what can Cot do with it...OK, bad idea) or stopping Elder God crusade.

[Hetan]

Just to remove any further doubts as to the knives not being Kalam's here is the description of those knives and they are quite obviously not the ones in the excerpt :-

Quote

He drew one of the knives from its sheath. The blade was blackened, inlaid with a silver serpent pattern down its length.
‘That is not Pardu,’ the customer growled.
‘Owned, I said. You’ve a sharp eye indeed. They are Wickan. Booty from the Chain of Dogs.’
‘Let me see the other one.’
The old man unsheathed the second blade.
Kalam Mekhar’s eyes involuntarily widened. Quickly regaining his composure, he glanced up at the proprietor – but the man had seen and was nodding.
‘Aye, friend. Aye . . .’
The entire blade, also black, was feather-patterned, the inlay an amber-tinged silver – that amber taint . . . alloyed with otataral. Crow clan. But not a lowly warrior’s weapon. No, this one belonged to someone important.
The old man resheathed the Crow knife, tapped the other one with a
finger. ‘Invested, this one. How to challenge the otataral? Simple. Elder magic.’
‘Elder. Wickan sorcery is not Elder—’
‘Oh, but this now-dead Wickan warrior had a friend. See, here, take the knife in your hand. Squint at this mark, there, at the base – see, the serpent’s tail coils around it—’
The long-knife was startlingly heavy in Kalam’s hand. The finger ridges in the grip were overlarge, but the Wickan had compensated for this with thicker leather straps. The stamp impressed into the metal in the centre of the looped tail was intricate, almost beyond belief, given the size of the hand that must have inscribed it. Fenn. Thelomen Toblakai. The Wickan had a friend indeed. And worse, I know that mark. I know precisely who invested this weapon. Gods below, what strange cycles am I striding into here?