[Tsundoku]

D, on 15 December 2009 - 02:54 AM, said:

Frook, as I read more and more of your marketing spiel, it starts to all feel like a desperate grasp to try and get as many new members as possible at any cost no matter who they are.

Well, they're at least SFF fans, and quite probably Malazan fans already.

Quote

I can see why that would be a good strategy for any physical or commercial establishment that is actually trying to generate as much revenue as possible, but that's not us. I surely can't speak for anyone other than myself, but while I'm interested in making the forum a friendlier place to people who might be interested in becoming a member here, I don't feel compelled to change away all the things I like about the forum in order to promote it to multitudes of people who didn't care for it the first time.

As far as I can tell, for us the forum wouldn't change. It's the intro process for new people that would change and be a bit smarter.

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Sure, there are thousands of people who have been members here at some point but never posted more than twice. I don't see that as some sort of failing on our part to attract customers, rather I just think the majority of people are not as hardcore about SE as we are. If they came, asked the one question that was bothering them, or read through a hundred topics and weren't interested in becoming a member of the community, I can't say I'm surprised. I would imagine most people are not really that interested in getting involved with an internet forum about a series of books. And since we're not (much) profit off of them, what is the big loss? If they weren't interested in being here, I can't imagine they would add much to the place.

So maybe we filter the pool of recipients down to those who had posted more than (insert arbitrary number here) and/or their last visit was more recent than (insert arbitrary date here)?

It's not exactly a spam campaign. "Is your penis a bit undersized? Can't last in the bedroom? Then MBotF can help YOU!"

(Brood would buy it ... )

And let's face it, how many forums out there have ever asked you back? OK in my case that's not a fair example, but I mean if you had an email basically asking how you were, here's what's been happening (not too much detail), click on this link to check it out if you want, or just drop in and say hi, or even just lurk - I'm sure you would get a few takers. Even if it was just to say hi. I don't think they'd mind that it was a mass-mail either, because we're not actually trying to sell them anything, or get anything from them besides a little of their time and possibly participation.

I am aware there are a few forums out there that do drop you a line on happenings and maybe pitch the odd sale, but these are generally the more commercial ones like leasticoulddo etc that depend on sales and clicks, and even then those aren't annoying because you're already a fan and it isn't random.

It's not something I would suggest as standard frequent practice though. Maybe a once-a-year thing? Bearing in mind those who have ticked the boxes for "I don't want to be contacted by anyone, including the admins".

How difficult would something like that be to code?

This post has been edited by Sombra: 15 December 2009 - 03:51 AM

[Hetan]

Before y'all get completely side-tracked here - we're not talking about skin changes.

I'll get round to sorting out the screenshots for the new member area and get that rolling later this week.

[HoosierDaddy]

If I am anywhere close to the targeted audience (SE fans), what I came here to do was understand what I was reading. I think most people do that without having to sign-up. We have TONS of guests, every day. They are consistently reading the discussions in the Malazan Book forums. Most of these people come here for clarification, get it, and leave.

Some are driven enough to post their own theories, but that's not much of the percentage. Frankly, I think we do a damned good job of welcoming people. It's quite simply that this forum is so damned topical that people don't NEED to ask questions anymore, unless they don't want to search for answers. Our book forums are ridiculously full of information and theories for any Malazan fan who wants to read them.

I want and welcome every new member we have. They always bring new views and information, and that is awesome. But, I think we can't overlook the fact that this is a very heavy information site and does a damned good job of informing without having to sign-up. Some will join to simply ask a question, get it clarified and leave. Some will stick around. Some come simply to bitch about SE or ICE.

I don't know how to keep them other than to be as welcoming as possible and take it from there. The new member section might help for those who wish to be apart of the community and don't want to jump in head first. But, many will still come, sign up, ask a question and leave because that's the nature of the Forum.

[Salt-Man Z]

I think Hoosier hit it on the head: most people come here to have their questions answered. And most of their questions can be answered without registering. I know I only signed up because I had a question or two that I couldn't find answers to.

[frookenhauer]

Cheers Sombra, thats essentially what I'm driving at, although the reach out emails should be done oftener than a year, quarterly or even monthly is better to keep the thought alive.

D'rek. Its a marketing plan alright and what I was essentially recommending was a method whereby gaining new recruits and bringing them back was less random. The random method has got us this far... Add a little sience and techniques that bloody well work and we might go from a dozen or so active members another half dozen lurking and a score of guests to 20,30...50? active members on at a time and plenty lurkers and guests. This is a top forum and if it was busier it would be even better.

But anyway, I was just sharing some techniques that I use to good effect and applying them to the empire. Its not my call as to whether they get used or not

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, so if it has forgive me. Would it be possible to make some kind of a section on the forum that has the best collected quotes from the books? Just to read through, not to comment on or anything. I remember that wotmania had a section with just the best quotes from the books, and while I wasn't a member there I would go to the site and read them from time to time. I understand that it would be a large project, and there would be danger of spoilers, but that could probably be limited somehow, and I know there are a couple of threads in the book forums that are like "best quotes so far". So there are a lot that could be just taken directly from those couple threads.

[D'rek]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 16 December 2009 - 12:28 AM, said:

I don't know if this has been discussed before, so if it has forgive me. Would it be possible to make some kind of a section on the forum that has the best collected quotes from the books? Just to read through, not to comment on or anything. I remember that wotmania had a section with just the best quotes from the books, and while I wasn't a member there I would go to the site and read them from time to time. I understand that it would be a large project, and there would be danger of spoilers, but that could probably be limited somehow, and I know there are a couple of threads in the book forums that are like "best quotes so far". So there are a lot that could be just taken directly from those couple threads.

That's probably work a lot better in some database-like format than a sub-forum or thread format, since you're bound to get (after some time) a loooot of quotes and searching for them with just the keyword-searching of the forum would not be great for finding a quote you are trying to find. If you had it well organized with some sort of keyword-tagging function, or chronologically, or by character/topic, or all of the above, that could be really great. But I think you'll have less limitations doing it as a 3rd-party project. It's a cool idea, you should do it WJD!

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

D, on 16 December 2009 - 06:54 PM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 16 December 2009 - 12:28 AM, said:

I don't know if this has been discussed before, so if it has forgive me. Would it be possible to make some kind of a section on the forum that has the best collected quotes from the books? Just to read through, not to comment on or anything. I remember that wotmania had a section with just the best quotes from the books, and while I wasn't a member there I would go to the site and read them from time to time. I understand that it would be a large project, and there would be danger of spoilers, but that could probably be limited somehow, and I know there are a couple of threads in the book forums that are like "best quotes so far". So there are a lot that could be just taken directly from those couple threads.

That's probably work a lot better in some database-like format than a sub-forum or thread format, since you're bound to get (after some time) a loooot of quotes and searching for them with just the keyword-searching of the forum would not be great for finding a quote you are trying to find. If you had it well organized with some sort of keyword-tagging function, or chronologically, or by character/topic, or all of the above, that could be really great. But I think you'll have less limitations doing it as a 3rd-party project. It's a cool idea, you should do it WJD!

I do not understand computers, or anything about web design. I could perhaps make a word document with a lot of quotes though? The one I was thinking about on wotmania was just a list, alphabetically by character. As far as I know there was no search function.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

PLus then we might need permission from SE, which he might not want to give.

[Obdigore]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on 17 December 2009 - 04:34 AM, said:

PLus then we might need permission from SE, which he might not want to give.

Under US law we wouldn't. However the site owner is in UK, and they have a slightly different legal code.

Also, it might make SE angry (I don't know why it would, but I do not know the man).

Now, onto a question about Rep that I may have asked before, and cannot remember, but cannot find it if I did.

Is it possible to disable rep in the discussion board? I think this would lead to more actual discussion instead of people just pos or neg repping peoples thoughts/comments they do not agree with.

[Silencer]

Actually, Obdi, the location of the site owner is irrelevant. As the data would be hosted on the server, it is the country (or state) in which the server is hosted that dictates which law pertains. Weird, I know, but that's how the interwebz operates. The distinction in this case makes no difference, because we use a UK hosting company, but just thought I should put that out there.

I doubt SE would have excessive objections - we quote most of his work in any case, just by way of discussion. See the 'Awesome quotes' thread for TTH.

But hey, that's something for Bill and Hazel to raise with him if they like the idea.

As for the discussion forum rep situation, I agree it should be disabled in that area. However the options are 'on' or 'off' and nothing else. I've posted in certain discussions reminding people that neg repping or pos repping in the discussion forums is frowned upon - and yes, I then got neg repped for that post. Then again, I have the benefit of being able to look up who neg repped me, so no harm done...to me.
We will have to wait and see with the discussion forum rep. I can always correct any major reputation infringements via the admin panel, but that hasn't proven necessary yet.

[Obdigore]

Yes, sorry, I assumed Hetan used a UK Hosting service, as I would use a US one since I am in the US. Probably a bad assumption to make, but one I made.

Ok, cool, thanks for answering the question.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I like rep being allowed in the discussion forum. I don't think it should be used to neg rep someone just for having a different opinion from you, but I like the option to neg someone if they are being trollish and rude. I like being able to ops rep if they are formulating a good argument, regardless of if I actually agree.

[Silencer]

While the scenario you describe sounds good, RLY, I'm fairly certain it is unrealistic. I've already seen posts getting neg repped for no apparent reason, and 'trollish and rude' can often be the result of the interpretation of tone - which is inevitably affected by the post's content.

If someone is being trollish and rude, then it should be a reputation increase or decrease that is happening, it should be moderator involvement.

[Salt-Man Z]

I agree with RLY insofar as the +rep goes. If someone says something I really agree with, or even put a lot of effort into something I don't, or pulls some outstanding quote fu, or whatever-- certainly that deserves a +1 from me. But if I don't have anything to say beyond "good point!" or "IAWTP", then there's no point in me posting. The +rep is a way to show that appreciation without bogging down a thread with pointless two-word affirmation posts. (And it'll work even better once we get rep comments.)

[beru]

the mods (or super mods or whatever) would be able to remove all rep from a comment...
this is used to remove the rep from a wrong repped post



aslso a way to undo a accidental repping...

[dktorode]

I know this has been an on going discussion for some time now ....and i wasnt intending on getting involved as you guys are pretty competent , but now that i see the changes i feel i will have my say aferall as i find it might serve the site better.
Anyways...use it ...dont uee it.

But wouldnt it be better if you clearly seperate and label SE and ICE in " The Malazan Book of the fallen and Novels of the Malazan Empire" section?
I think for the many people that will come here for the first time to have a look it might be bit confused. I doubt there is many other series that has 2 founders/authors.

Other than that...good job fellas

[Cougar]

I totally disagree that Rep should be disabled in any forum. It isn't for us to make judgements about why people should apportion positive or negative repuation, or what constitutes a reasonable or sensible reason for repping or negging. I was quite vehment with D'rek about this some weeks ago and I stand by it, people can give out rep to people for whatever reasons they see fit.

[Hetan]

It is also not possible to remove rep from a particular forum - rep is rep - we either have it or we don't.

[Hetan]

Hetan, on 01 January 2010 - 04:12 PM, said:

It is also not possible to remove rep from a particular forum - rep is rep - we either have it or we don't.

Sorry for the double post. Regarding User Reputation comments - I've added the hook to the software however there is a problem with it displaying correctly for all.
There does not seem to be a way to set it so that all user groups can see comments which means that anyone who is in a user group such as mafia, wiki contributors etc can see the comment that has been left (the last 5 comments is all), but cannot see who left the comment. We did think this would be a problem and so far haven't found a way round it. It is a third party modification and is not supported software so there aren't a lot of options here, although I might see if Theo can work some magic.

So we can change everyone back to the Malaz Regular User Group, which I think is probably going to be the best option if we want to retain the ability to leave a comment, or we go back to how it was and there are no comments.

Edit : I have temporarily disabled the hook as there is a problem with it but hopefully it should be workable soon.