[Path-Shaper]

it is Day 4. Roughly 38 hours remaining.
10 Players still alive: Galayn Lord, Korbas, Korvalain, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Sukul Ankhadu, Telas, Tulas Shorn

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote Korbas (Ruse)
1 vote Sukul Ankhadu (Korbas)

Not voted: Galayn Lord, Korvalain, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Spite, Telas, Tulas Shorn

---

Tonight (EST) the timer will be frozen for the weekend break. The day will continue with no timer but if a lynch is reached the whole game will freeze without the lynch being revealed. Players will be able to change their actions if they should so choose until the lynch officially takes place at around midnight on Sunday (EST). Either way, the timer will resume at that time (either with 32-ish hours left in Day 4 or with 40 hours left on day 5). The thread will remain open for your debating leisure, but once a lynch is reached it is final and there is no more voting.

[Meanas]

Well the Korbas/Liosan link was well documented before, but it's pretty savvy of you to now go and spell it out in great detail, including why certain people almost certainly are NOT Yuan Shu.

I felt that Liosan didn't play much until he got harassed, but he didn't end up being a leader. Why would he play so passively? Maybe he wanted a low-post day 1 style, and ended up getting recruited? Being recruited can make people lose interest in the game.

Anyway, it's a good point to watch, but you're the other target under that microscope, and I hesitate to just vote Korbas and assume that you "pointing it out" makes you less suspicious. I've certainly used that trick in previous games to varying levels of success.

edit: This was @ Ruse

This post has been edited by Meanas: 12 February 2010 - 09:42 PM

[Meanas]

Korbas, you also has a good point, but then what's your theory on a link between me and Sukul? That he's my symp or vice-versa?

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Korbas you're so transparent it's hurting my brain. Second of all I've never believed Meanas is telling the truth, the only thing I've said is that I think Meanas wants to win, which is a given, isn't it? It's okay to scramble for any defense you can think of when you're threatened, I understand you.

But I think there's a fair chance the reason you went ballistic when we went after Liosan yesterday is because you were his leader. Then you voted because lets face it - you had to - you weren't given any choice in the matter, not with the forming train. If you hadn't, it would have been clear as day who you were, just like signing your own confession. But to me, it was and is a kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario for you - because the fact that you voted for Liosan even after your raging opposition, can only be explained so far by the fact that we need lynches to get information. You jumped on as soon as you could so you had time to throw in a desperate vote when you saw where the train where headed. I almost feel sorry for you. Needless to say, I agree with Ruse's case - you are most likely to be Yuan Shu.

vote Korbas

Obviously I am open for discussion, but I am not sure how much I will be able to get on here today, that's why I vote right away.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Although I have to admit I realize there's a possibility Ruse is Yuan Shu and Korbas is the fall guy. That would actually be pretty clever. Just throwing it out there for consideration.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Now I am bored and lonely.

[Meanas]

I am here if you are still bored and lonely... but why are you pushing Korbas to 2 votes so early? Following your leader, perhaps?

[Korbas]

Sukul seems to have a habit for OMGUS-it's not the first time he's attacked someone shortly after they attack him, iirc.

Strange that you mention that me not voting Liosan would be like signing a confession, and yet, Ruse, the other person most against a Liosan lynch did not vote Liosan, and yet you are not voting him...

You said meanas wanted to win. You did not ever seem to consider however that part of his wanting to win could involve lying. After all, if he's a leader, it would be advantageous for him to lie purely make it seem like he's not very powerful, aswell as getting someone he is suspicious of lynched in the process.

Meanas-I don't think he's your symp. I don't think you're his symp. I think that he either decided to go strongly for liosan because he was worried about being connected to him and so followed you so strongly, or that he decided to fake symp you. For him, it kills several birds with one stone.

-Strong support of your reveal, complete support for lynching Liosan, severs any connection with Liosan, who looked like he would be lynched sooner or later.
-This strong support of you makes it look bad, it looks like he is symping you.
-This defends him aswell, because it makes him look more like a subordinate. If anyone would take a fall from his symping, it would be you.

Except he was far too strong in his support, far too certain that lynching Liosan was the best move, he had no doubts whatsoever about it. Which is fake. Even you, the only person who knew for sure what you had been told, and knew for sure what your motives were, had doubts. Sukul dismissed these with a "HAH".

No symp would ever support a leader so blantantly. Thus, I doubt he's a real symp, so I think he was fake symping you.
He was far too certain. Unrealistically so. Thus, I think he was deliberately trying to be as strongly anti-lio as possible, to avoid being connected with him.

[Meanas]

OK, that's a good way to put it, and makes it a lot more clear, but if Sukul is lynched and not a leader, doesn't that make you the next prime suspect?

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 11:15 PM, said:

OK, that's a good way to put it, and makes it a lot more clear, but if Sukul is lynched and not a leader, doesn't that make you the next prime suspect?

If sukul is lynched and not a leader, it doesn't say much about me, that I can see. All it says is that I was wrong about him being a leader. So, i'm not sure how it makes me the next prime suspect.

Do you mean that i'm the next most likely lynch?
Or do you mean that sukuls CF affects how suspicious I am?

[Korbas]

If a leader sees a subordinate going down, do you really think it is likely that he would defend him? Knowing that if the sub goes down, people are going to be looking for those connected to him?
Surely it makes far more sense for the leader to try and avoid being connected with the sub, because if they are unconnected, the leader is safer.

[Meanas]

Korbas, a LOT of people have implicated you as a potential aide of Liosan, although the relationship could clearly be reversed. If you believe Sukul to be a potential leader, it could easily be seen as you retaliating against him for abetting in removal of your symp.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 11:43 PM, said:

Korbas, a LOT of people have implicated you as a potential aide of Liosan, although the relationship could clearly be reversed. If you believe Sukul to be a potential leader, it could easily be seen as you retaliating against him for abetting in removal of your symp.

Yes, a lot of people have said that I look like I was defending Liosan.

Which is fair enough, in disagreeing with you, I did indirectly defend Liosan.

What people don't seem to consider is how utterly stupid it would be for a leader to defend a subordinate, to risk having the most valuable person on the team lynched for the sake of a subordinate.

So, while people may think I defended Liosan, the logical jump from there to me being a leader is completely ridiculous.

The votes on me basically come down to "Korbas is the most idiotic leader in mafia history", to which the only response is "Can you actually believe I, or anyone really, would be that stupid?".

[Meanas]

No, and that's why I haven't voted for you. I think the case is absolute garbage. We know Liosan was not a leader, so the only way that link would work is if you were the leader.

It's more likely that one of Ruse, Telas, or GL was the leader, and I'd bet it's one of the latter two.

[Meanas]

Now, while I won't vote you for being a leader, I do still have to consider that this is merc and I'm not entirely certain that you are not on my team... but it is possible that you are.

edit: typo, clarification

This post has been edited by Meanas: 13 February 2010 - 12:00 AM

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 11:43 PM, said:

Korbas, a LOT of people have implicated you as a potential aide of Liosan, although the relationship could clearly be reversed. If you believe Sukul to be a potential leader, it could easily be seen as you retaliating against him for abetting in removal of your symp.

It can't though. Masters are the most valuable member of the team. Subordinates try to get their masters through the game, thus, they defend them. However, masters are trying to get themselves through the game. It simply does not make sense for a master to defend a subordinate.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 11:57 PM, said:

No, and that's why I haven't voted for you. I think the case is absolute garbage. We know Liosan was not a leader, so the only way that link would work is if you were the leader.

It's more likely that one of Ruse, Telas, or GL was the leader, and I'd bet it's one of the latter two.

I don't have much of a read on GL. Though I guess that is exactly where a leader would want to be.

Telas has struck me as being pretty middle of the road. He ventures possibilities but often qualifies them as being unlikely or that he's not sure about them. I just looked over his posts on Liosan, and he really seems very middle of the road. In the same post he votes he says "What is the actual case on Liosan?". He qualifies that he doesn't really care for the case on Liosan, doesn't like it much, more than once. He really doesn't contribute much to the whole Liosan discussion, seems like he's skirting around it. If I had to choose out of those 3, it would be Telas.

As for Ruse, i'm not sure. I don't think Ruse would defend Liosan if he was his leader. So, while I could see him as a leader, I don't think it would be Liosans.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 12 February 2010 - 11:59 PM, said:

Now, while I won't vote you for being a leader, I do still have to consider that this is merc and I'm not entirely certain that you are not on my team... but it is possible that you are.

edit: typo, clarification

Finding other leaders is more productive than voting people simply for not being on your team.

[Korbas]

Another thing about Sukul A that i've just noticed. He is coasting. He appears involved, but if you look at his votes, they boil down to following someone elses cases(yesterday, following meanas on Liosan, now he is agreeing with Ruse) or voting someone simply for not being his own leader(earlier in the game). His votes are very safe, as are the people he lists as suspecting.

[Korbas]

Anyway, i've g2g, be back in a while.