[Clanless Warrior]

Muay Thai!
Or Muay Boran!

[maro]

Iaijutsu. Sharp swords

That's me in my avatar.

Seriously. I don't train for Self defense though (I don't carry my sword everywhere).

As for defending against a knife, it's very difficult. I train with blades and if someone wants my wallet, they can have it.

[Use Of Weapons]

Even restricting the meaning of 'best' to 'most effective' isn't enough, because the question then becomes, most effective for what purpose? For defending oneself against an armed/unarmed assailant, or multiples of same? For creating escape opportunities? For one-on-one competition? For sport? For self-development? For meditation?

I would argue that most of the sporting arts are equally effective at self-defence in a general sense, in that they require one to be able to defeat an assailant who a) knows what you are trying to do, knows how to counter it, and c) is trying to do the same right back. The only proviso I would add would be that the training must include an element (nay, consist primarily of) alive resistance-based sparring.

In terms of self-development, most arts have the capacity for this, if you choose to look for it. But only a few focus on it as an explicit goal. Does this mean that they are more effective at delivering the goods? Caveat emptor, IMO.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

For the purpose of my response, I'm going to take "best martial art" to mean "if we had these guys fight each other one on one who would win." Also, no weapons. I'm talking strictly unarmed combat here, because if you're allowing weapons, then the best martial art is ICBM.

SO, my first answer is MMA. This is not in my mind a cop-out, as it is without a doubt becoming a single all inclusive martial art. Guys still do get their training piecemeal, but you ca ngo to a school and ask to be taught MMA, and they will know exactly what you're talking about.

If we're not going to allow MMA, then really several disciplines like Krav Maga and sambo that incorporate both striking and grappling also should be banned from the discussion.

So, we're left with the non-weapon bearing non-cross trained arts. Fortunately, we don't even need to speculate . The early UFC's were set p to solve exactly this discussion. It was proven pretty comprehensively that if there is no cross-training, a BJJ guy will win most fights against other disciplines. This can be backed up by some internet work. There are plenty of videos of BJJ guys going around the world challenging masters of other arts and destroying them. If your art does not teach you to defend against being taken down, and does not teach you how to not be submitted if you are taken down, and how to get back up once taken down, then you are defenseless against BJJ. Goodnight, you an pick your arm up at the front desk.

Some of the styles will stand up better. Judo matches up fairly well, as it teaches takedown defense and submissions. BJJ actually took a lot from Judo, and there have been high level contests between Judo and BJJ where the Judo guy won. Other forms of jiu-jitsu would also be competitive, but it is my understanding that BJJ is the culmination of JJ and superior to other forms in actual utility. Wrestling can neutralize BJJ, but mostly when we see this it is in mma where the wrestler is also crass trained. With no cross training, he would likely take down the BJJ guy and tyhe get submitted.

Bottom line, if you aren't trained in takedowns and submissions at all, no matter how good of a striker you are you're screwed against someone who knows how to take the fight to the ground.

[maro]

ICBMs don't equate to Swords. Swords are one on one.

I take your "Reverse Naked Cowboy" manlove and raise you a shinken.

[Vesper]

I may be biased, as I am a judoka (was a judoka, when I was physically capable of fighting before my injury), but judo is hands-down the best martial art in my mind. The reason for this is that it teaches you to defend against strikes and use the opponent's weight, power, and energy against him as much as your own. I would regularly fight people who had 60-80 lbs on me, and because I knew how to fight larger opponents it was only a matter of exploiting known weaknesses in larger people.

Judo also is the best martial art for incapacitating enemies and not doing excessive harm to them. While it is possible to apply the same techniques to more devastating (even lethal) ends, I originally started practicing judo because it would allow me to use non-lethal power. I didn't want to learn how to kill, only defend myself.

[Aptorian]

Gun Kata

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

maro, on 12 February 2010 - 01:51 AM, said:

ICBMs don't equate to Swords. Swords are one on one.

I take your "Reverse Naked Cowboy" manlove and raise you a shinken.

Of course I was exaggerating a bit. My point is I didn'y want to get into arguments like "kenjutsu is better than BJJ because the kenjutsu guy would use his sword and stab the BJJ guy." I only wanted to consider unarmed versus unarmed.

[Vesper]

Upon further consideration, actually, the best martial art is...

[wolf_2099]

This thread, it just won't go down.

Something like the Marine Martial Arts Program or similar is probably the most functional in real life. It'd be used and upgraded often, and not used for tourney play, but for incapicating and killing people as easily as possible.

http://en.wikipedia....al_Arts_Program

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I watched a show with an army combat instructor. He said if he fought a top mma guy like Randy Couture in the cage under mma rules, Couture would whip his ass. If they fought in real life though, he though he would literally kill Couture.

I see his point because mma as a sport has the fatal and permanently crippling parts toned down, while the army focuses on them. Who knows though. Really, the army martial arts has a lot of elements of an mma system.

[rhulad]

I choose Zui Quan (Drunken boxing), because it's fucking awesome.

[Shinrei]

maro, on 22 January 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Iaijutsu. Sharp swords

That's me in my avatar.

Seriously. I don't train for Self defense though (I don't carry my sword everywhere).

As for defending against a knife, it's very difficult. I train with blades and if someone wants my wallet, they can have it.

Which school of iaijutsu?

[maro]

Shinrei, on 28 February 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:

maro, on 22 January 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Iaijutsu. Sharp swords

That's me in my avatar.

Seriously. I don't train for Self defense though (I don't carry my sword everywhere).

As for defending against a knife, it's very difficult. I train with blades and if someone wants my wallet, they can have it.

Which school of iaijutsu?

Nakamura Ryu Battodo.

[Flashwit]

i practice PFS (progressive fighting systems) which is a mix if jiu jitsu, kali, and jeet kun do, my favorite is the jet kun do with kali as a close second, jeet jun do is the martial art made famous by bruce lee (also used by spike in cowboy bebop) but for jiu jitsu to be any good you have to get the person onto the ground. but believe me, that isnt as easy as people make it seem. a good martial artist will know how to counter that and you will probly get a few knees and elbows in the face for your trouble.

This post has been edited by Flashwit: 01 March 2010 - 01:03 AM

[amphibian]

Flashwit, on 01 March 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

i practice PFS (progressive fighting systems) which is a mix if jiu jitsu, kali, and jeet kun do, my favorite is the jet kun do with kali as a close second, jeet jun do is the martial art made famous by bruce lee (also used by spike in cowboy bebop) but for jiu jitsu to be any good you have to get the person onto the ground. but believe me, that isnt as easy as people make it seem. a good martial artist will know how to counter that and you will probly get a few knees and elbows in the face for your trouble.

Dan Inosanto has a black belt in BJJ. Do you think that dude would waste that much of his time with a not-very valuable art?

Ugh. What's so weird about this thread is that most people reviving it are championing their own sport - when demonstrable evidence is widely available as to what the answer is for this particular hypothetical.

My answer for those who care: I say MMA, but if we're talking a "specific art", combat sambo would be my choice - even though I do BJJ and dabble in MT a bit.

[Flashwit]

haha if i was to champion my own sport then bjj would be in there. im just saying this, picking a martial art is like picking a gun, its all about what you want to use it for and whats its strengths and weaknesses are, your not going to try and snipe with a shotgun, so why would you bring bjj to a boxing match. they arent comparable in my mind.

[Shinrei]

maro, on 01 March 2010 - 12:10 AM, said:

Shinrei, on 28 February 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:

maro, on 22 January 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Iaijutsu. Sharp swords

That's me in my avatar.

Seriously. I don't train for Self defense though (I don't carry my sword everywhere).

As for defending against a knife, it's very difficult. I train with blades and if someone wants my wallet, they can have it.

Which school of iaijutsu?

Nakamura Ryu Battodo.

Very cool. Looked it up on wikipedia and am watching some videos of it on Youtube now. Here's the one I study.

http://en.wikipedia....tori_Shinto_Ryu

[Gothos]

The guns reference is sound I guess... then again, on the one hand, I luv sniping in games, but on the other hand, for close combat, in theory, what appeals to me the most is the power of knees and elbows, which is more like, I don't know, a shotgun?

[amphibian]

Flashwit, on 01 March 2010 - 05:54 AM, said:

haha if i was to champion my own sport then bjj would be in there. im just saying this, picking a martial art is like picking a gun, its all about what you want to use it for and whats its strengths and weaknesses are, your not going to try and snipe with a shotgun, so why would you bring bjj to a boxing match. they arent comparable in my mind.

The gun analogy you use does not work in this context. The hypothetical posited was an unarmed confrontation between two people. Unless you've got a Semmy Schilt matched up against Marcelo Garcia, the "guns" are going to be relatively similar and not so wildly different from each other as a Barrett .50 and a Remington over/under. Furthermore, a boxer can beat a BJJ player, but in theory, the BJJ player should win most of the time. And since it's Marcelo I'm using, he might still beat Semmy...

Flashwit, do you do BJJ or PFS?

This post has been edited by amphibian: 02 March 2010 - 09:45 PM