[masan's saddle]

Just for the record I am not a vegetarian and I loves my fried chicken as much as the next person.

However this was a bit of an eye opener and asks some serious questions about corporate morality and industry standards.

http://www.kentuckyf...y.com/index.asp

Are animal rights still as important a topic as they were 10 years ago ?

Do you care where your next fast food fix comes from ?

Is this the proof needed for Illy's Fowl Hateocracy ?


WARNING ! This link contains some pretty graphic imagery from slaughterhouses. It is also presented by Pammie Anderson!

You roll yer dice you takes yer chances !

[Sixty]

I personally never listen to the message of PETA's ads by virtue of it being PETA.

People Eating Tasty Animals IMO.

[caladanbrood]

I take anything PETA says with a pinch of salt *ahah* even if they do have a point, I still have no respect for them.

[DurhangAddict]

For the record, I am vegetarian but am not militant about it - I'm not actively trying to "convert" anyone, it just works for me.

That being said, "factory farming" practices are fucking disgusting. I understand these life forms are bound for human consumption, but is it too much to ask that you at least let them have some sort of life first? You know, feel the grass under their feet and the sun on their faces instead of being crammed in dark cages where they are basically immobile?

But no. In the persuit of "cheap meat" they are subjected to lives of horror and suffering. And most people don't care, as long as they can have their goddamn dollar menu choices.

[Aptorian]

 masan's saddle, on Jul 5 2009, 05:47 PM, said:

Just for the record I am not a vegetarian and I loves my fried chicken as much as the next person.

However this was a bit of an eye opener and asks some serious questions about corporate morality and industry standards.

http://www.kentuckyf...y.com/index.asp

Are animal rights still as important a topic as they were 10 years ago ?

Do you care where your next fast food fix comes from ?

Is this the proof needed for Illy's Fowl Hateocracy ?


WARNING ! This link contains some pretty graphic imagery from slaughterhouses. It is also presented by Pammie Anderson!

You roll yer dice you takes yer chances !

I was going to take some typical cheap shots as PETA but I admit that footage is terrible. If what we saw was the general standard and treatment by all KFC factories, and their suppliers then something should be done.

But it's also obvious that Pams doing some broad generalization here and using skewed statistics we can't trust. KFC using too low voltage in their shock baths... why would they do that? Chickens being alive long after having the throats cut, what? How is it KFCs fault that the chickens over eat? What is the point of telling me that chickens live to be 12 years old in the wild? So what? If cows, pigs and chickens weren't meat animals they would be mostly extinct anyway.

On another note, chickens are tasty. If only they could put cornel sanders secret recipy into the chickens DNA.

EDIT: @ Durhang, you can't give every cow and pig and chicken a field to run around on, let the grow naturally, etc. it's logistically improbable and the expenses would be ridiculous compared with demands and people's wallets.

What we need is some delicious cloned meat, but "Oh no, that's unnatural and weird, I don't want to east soulless meat made by machines that hasn't been stuffed into a cage for a year and then slaughtered cruelly!"

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 July 2009 - 04:17 PM

[masan's saddle]

@ Brood and Sixty

Whilst I agree PETA can be pretty ridiculous at times, did you watch the clip ?

With ref to the OP, are you guys OK with people practicing MC Hammer dance routines on live chickens ?

I'm not some A.L.F loon or anything but thats some pretty sick shit.

[caladanbrood]

My internet is not currently fast enough to make it worthwhile loading videos. I accept that often the treatment is awful... but then we're judging it from a human standard. The humanisation of animals is not something I agree with at all.

[Cause]

PETA is insane, Wht they want simply can not ever exist. Further they seem detached from reality. Nature is not a nice place. Their are insects which implant their young into live hosts which than eat their way out. I live in SA, I was once privilaged enough to see a lion kill not one but two buffola in the krueger park. It took over twenty minutes for the animal to die. It shat itself and than pissed itself in fear. Its cries would have been horrible Im sure if its throat were not cut. The lions kept tugging it with their claws. Presumbly trying to hurry it on its way. That animal should have been so lucky to have had a human at the meat factory speed iton its way. But you know what animals are animals. They are not people and im hungry!

Also chickens being alive after their throats are slit. Decapitated chickens will run around for minutes after. They are not alive. Its like body twitches. Also twelve years in the wild? there is over 20 billion chickens in the world. What wild will we put them in? The bird has been domesticated for thousands of years! I

[Aptorian]

 masan's saddle, on Jul 5 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

With ref to the OP, are you guys OK with people practicing MC Hammer dance routines on live chickens ?

Please. I have also seen videos of cops tazering and nightsticking innocent bystanders on video. That doesn't mean all cops do that, all the time, now does it?

I'm sure PETA or Green Peace or who ever caught this on film, reported it and there was done some serious check-ups. But you can't be everywhere, and I am rather certain that it unfortunantly is not always the most well educated and well adjusted human beings who pluck chickens for a living.

[Illuyankas]

The beaks things is to prevent the chickens from tearing each other apart - they see a spot of red on an injured chicken, they will peck at it until the injured bird is shredded, often getting more blood on its killers and starting the cycle off again. Because they are stupid dumb animals, and are quite simply not worth as much as human beings. The PETA video is bad, if only for how many chickens those idiots were wasting by being overly violent dicks.

I'm a horrible human being sometimes.

[Lisheo]

PETA are fools.

/thread.

Honestly, I've looked into them a lot... They spend their 33 million dollars a year on advertisement, only rehousing a handful of the animals they "save", euthanising the rest. Their founder has admitted to killing thousands of animals. They are fucking whackjobs, and picking out an example of cruelty to chickens doesn't sway me.
Worse happens to people every day. When every person is healthy and happy, THEN fix the animal problems, imo.

[Aptorian]

 Cause, on Jul 5 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

PETA is insane, Wht they want simply can not ever exist. Further they seem detached from reality. Nature is not a nice place. Their are insects which implant their young into live hosts which than eat their way out. I live in SA, I was once privilaged enough to see a lion kill not one but two buffola in the krueger park. It took over twenty minutes for the animal to die. It shat itself and than pissed itself in fear. Its cries would have been horrible Im sure if its throat were not cut. The lions kept tugging it with their claws. Presumbly trying to hurry it on its way. That animal should have been so lucky to have had a human at the meat factory speed iton its way. But you know what animals are animals.

They are not people and im hungry!

That doesn't mean you should just feel happy and satisfied with another living being, even a dumb one, having to live out a short painfull existance in a place worse than a Nazi Death Camp. It is unfortunant the conditions that our livestock some times, a lot of the time maybe, has to live under, and if we can make it less painfull while it lasts that should be a goal. It's basic human capacity for understanding another creatures needs and feeling its pain.

If you don't feel the least uncomfortable with the footage in that video you are a cold, helpless case boardering on a sociopath. Farmers do not treat their animals like that.

 Cause, on Jul 5 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

Also chickens being alive after their throats are slit. Decapitated chickens will run around for minutes after. They are not alive. Its like body twitches.

I think the point is that the slice across their neck is some times too shallow. Why they don't just remove the head entirely I don't know.

 Cause, on Jul 5 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

Also twelve years in the wild? there is over 20 billion chickens in the world. What wild will we put them in? The bird has been domesticated for thousands of years!

Animals are no more domesticated than that they can turn feral and adapt to living in the wild in one generation... maybe with the exception of Chihuahuas

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 July 2009 - 04:41 PM

[DurhangAddict]

 Illuyankas, on Jul 5 2009, 12:32 PM, said:

The beaks things is to prevent the chickens from tearing each other apart

Which would be totally uncessesary if they let them roam free instead of cramming a bunch of them into a tiny cage.

[DurhangAddict]

 Aptorian, on Jul 5 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

Animals are no more domesticated than that they can turn feral and adapt to living in the wild in one generation... maybe with the exception of Chihuahuas

Correct, and sometimes less. In fact, escaped pigs have been known to go feral in a matter of months.

[masan's saddle]

 Aptorian, on Jul 5 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

 masan's saddle, on Jul 5 2009, 05:47 PM, said:

Just for the record I am not a vegetarian and I loves my fried chicken as much as the next person.

However this was a bit of an eye opener and asks some serious questions about corporate morality and industry standards.

http://www.kentuckyf...y.com/index.asp

Are animal rights still as important a topic as they were 10 years ago ?

Do you care where your next fast food fix comes from ?

Is this the proof needed for Illy's Fowl Hateocracy ?


WARNING ! This link contains some pretty graphic imagery from slaughterhouses. It is also presented by Pammie Anderson!

You roll yer dice you takes yer chances !

I was going to take some typical cheap shots as PETA but I admit that footage is terrible. If what we saw was the general standard and treatment by all KFC factories, and their suppliers then something should be done.

But it's also obvious that Pams doing some broad generalization here and using skewed statistics we can't trust. KFC using too low voltage in their shock baths... why would they do that? Chickens being alive long after having the throats cut, what? How is it KFCs fault that the chickens over eat? What is the point of telling me that chickens live to be 12 years old in the wild? So what? If cows, pigs and chickens weren't meat animals they would be mostly extinct anyway.

On another note, chickens are tasty. If only they could put cornel sanders secret recipy into the chickens DNA.

EDIT: @ Durhang, you can't give every cow and pig and chicken a field to run around on, let the grow naturally, etc. it's logistically improbable and the expenses would be ridiculous compared with demands and people's wallets.

What we need is some delicious cloned meat, but "Oh no, that's unnatural and weird, I don't want to east soulless meat made by machines that hasn't been stuffed into a cage for a year and then slaughtered cruelly!"

 Aptorian, on Jul 5 2009, 05:30 PM, said:

 masan's saddle, on Jul 5 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

With ref to the OP, are you guys OK with people practicing MC Hammer dance routines on live chickens ?

Please. I have also seen videos of cops tazering and nightsticking innocent bystanders on video. That doesn't mean all cops do that, all the time, now does it?

I'm sure PETA or Green Peace or who ever caught this on film, reported it and there was done some serious check-ups. But you can't be everywhere, and I am rather certain that it unfortunantly is not always the most well educated and well adjusted human beings who pluck chickens for a living.

Erm..., pardon ?

Apt you initially say that the footage is terrible and that something should be done about it, then go off on a random comparison about cops, implying that not all chicken pluckers are evil bastards. I was just asking Brood and Sixty if they thought THE CLIP was acceptable !

That was all.


I find myself chuckling childishly at the thought of Evil chicken pluckers

[Aptorian]

 masan's saddle, on Jul 5 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

Apt you initially say that the footage is terrible and that something should be done about it, then go off on a random comparison about cops, implying that not all chicken pluckers are evil bastards. I was just asking Brood and Sixty if they thought THE CLIP was acceptable !

That was all.

I find myself chuckling childishly at the thought of Evil chicken pluckers

That comparison is was what we in the business like to call an analogy, making a point by drawing a conclussion from a similar example.

I think the living conditions and state of the chickens health seen in the videos are terrible. You can't really tamper with that stuff, but I'm not going to get up in arms over footage from some random chicken processing plant we don't know when or where was filmed. Maybe chickens really are treated like that in every KFC place, or hopefully, that was just one unfortunant incident of evil fuckers caught on tape.

Never trust unknown video footage used to make a point by a person with an agenda.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 July 2009 - 04:54 PM

[DurhangAddict]

 Aptorian, on Jul 5 2009, 12:12 PM, said:

EDIT: @ Durhang, you can't give every cow and pig and chicken a field to run around on, let the grow naturally, etc. it's logistically improbable and the expenses would be ridiculous compared with demands and people's wallets.

I know. As I said, factory farming as all about the pursuit of cheap meat. That being said, most omnivores eat far more meat than necessary.

 Aptorian, on Jul 5 2009, 12:12 PM, said:

What we need is some delicious cloned meat

Agreed. In fact, I've several friends who are looking forward to the day when they can tuck in to a cloned steak

[Illuyankas]

 DurhangAddict, on Jul 5 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

 Illuyankas, on Jul 5 2009, 12:32 PM, said:

The beaks things is to prevent the chickens from tearing each other apart

Which would be totally uncessesary if they let them roam free instead of cramming a bunch of them into a tiny cage.

WRONG

It happens regardless of the size of the area they're in, and all it takes is one injured chicken and one uninjured chicken. In fact, the larger number of chickens around to attack the wounded, the less time it'll suffer. Chickens are bastards. Good job leaving out the part of my post that provided context to focus on one line though.

[DurhangAddict]

 Illuyankas, on Jul 5 2009, 01:04 PM, said:

WRONG

[citation needed]

[Illuyankas]

That's what I always liked about having to find sources you've misplaced. There's almost always something else out there on the subject you didn't know about. In this case, it's about how battery farming actually cuts down on the risk of chickens killing each other dramatically, unlike alternate and presumably more 'free' conditions. Fascinating.