[D'rek]

 WhiskeyJackDaniels, on Jul 2 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

Ok found what I was thinking of in MoI:
Pg 748..."A grunt from Draconus drew his attention. Directly in their path, tangled in chains gone slack, lay a huge, demonic figure. 'Byrys. I myself killed him, so long ago. I did not think...' He came up to the black-skinned creature, reached down and -to Paran's astonishment- heaved it over a shoulder. 'To the wagon,' Draconus said, 'my old nemesis...' Who summoned me,' the demon rumbled, 'to do battle with you?' 'Ever the same question, Byrys. I do not know, I have never known.'

So I guess that wasn't really as conclusive as I remembered, but you do get the sense that Draconus has been in the sword so long that he has grown tired of conversations with some of the beings trapped within. And since we learn in TtH that you aren't always next to the same people, and there are probably thousands inside there, it would take awhile for anyone to seem repetitive I bet.

I think I'd find it pretty repetitive after a month, let alone a couple thousand years or so...

[coltainereborn]

How about Hinter, the soul eating ghost in Hinter's Tower from GoTM? Sure he's not corporeal, but a true tyrant won't let a little thing like having no body slow him down

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Point is that in TtH Baruk went to Hinter and he warned him of the arrival of the Tyrant and Hinter fears to be enslaved by the Tyrant and makes a pact with Baruk. So he can't obviously be the Tyrant.

[Aptorian]

I remain convinced that the Tyrant isn't actually a character but a power.

That is what that Iron Monger guy was digging for, obviously there's something hidden beneath Darujistan.

[coltainereborn]

 Bauchelain the Evil, on Jul 4 2009, 12:42 PM, said:

Point is that in TtH Baruk went to Hinter and he warned him of the arrival of the Tyrant and Hinter fears to be enslaved by the Tyrant and makes a pact with Baruk. So he can't obviously be the Tyrant.

Damn it, how did I miss that? I think I need to re-read the last 1/4 of TTH again, theres just so much going on.

I was just mentioning Hinter b/c I just read the part in GoTM when he is mentioned, and I figured I'd just throw the name out there for shits and giggles- figuring it was just a one time mention or something. Should have known better- there are no throw away characters in SE's world.

[beru]

if apt is correct and the "tyrant" is a artifact/power thing maybe its a KCCM wepon of mass destruction?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I doubt it's any sort of technology...Humble Measure inferred the Tyrant (power or character) would stop Darujhistan from being threatened ever again. So I'd say magic.

Unless the KCCM have some sort of bunker...

[SapperNovice]

Well, this might be a bit far fetched, but has anyone any idea how old Kruppe might be? If this tyrant is indeed a protective one and just gone into hiding. What better guide than leading a secret organization (as eel) that opposes the return of tyranny. Probably the Cabal should know the tyrant and would recognize him, however elusiveness seems an essential part of Kruppes personality and i think I remember something about sleeping powers slowly awakening inside Kruppe from his very first dream in GotM. I've read the books only once yet, so I might be very far from the truth and missing some facts. But I find Krupp's too much of an enigma to not be good for one or two surprises.

Another question that just popped into my mind:
Krul is an elder god, out of the game for how log exactly?
If Darujhistan is only about 3000 years old, how comes there's a temple of Krul's in it's centre?

I love riddles that send the mind wandering strange paths

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

 SapperNovice, on Jul 5 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

Well, this might be a bit far fetched, but has anyone any idea how old Kruppe might be? If this tyrant is indeed a protective one and just gone into hiding. What better guide than leading a secret organization (as eel) that opposes the return of tyranny. Probably the Cabal should know the tyrant and would recognize him, however elusiveness seems an essential part of Kruppes personality and i think I remember something about sleeping powers slowly awakening inside Kruppe from his very first dream in GotM. I've read the books only once yet, so I might be very far from the truth and missing some facts. But I find Krupp's too much of an enigma to not be good for one or two surprises.

Another question that just popped into my mind:
Krul is an elder god, out of the game for how log exactly?
If Darujhistan is only about 3000 years old, how comes there's a temple of Krul's in it's centre?

I love riddles that send the mind wandering strange paths

Well, the fact that he was gone for a long time, and basically inactive, doesn't mean that people would forget someone as powerful and important as him. Remember that Mael lived anonymously as Bugg for centuries or even longer, and that did not seem to deter his worshippers one bit, he even still had a semi-organized priesthood during that time I think (though Mallick Rel is the only one I can think of).

[D'rek]

Kruppe is repeatedly called a mortal, both by gods in the series and SE himself. Plus Kruppe being the Tyrant would be revealing the mystery of him and SE said that Kruppe was a mystery even from himself...

K'rul temple -> what WJD said above, and also he didn't disappear all that long ago, though still possibly more than 3000 years ago (Raest mentioning when could be a GotMism)

This post has been edited by D'rek: 06 July 2009 - 12:56 PM

[coltainereborn]

In GoTM Mammot mentions to Crokus something about so-and-so being the second to last of the Tyrant-kings, who then led the way for someone else who ended the age of the Tyrant-kings in Dar. So it seems like Tyrants are a recurring problem for this city, maybe whatever(or whoever) is buried out there in the mines is part of the House of Tyrants, he's been asleep for a while, but when Raest broke free it woke up...

[D'rek]

 coltainereborn, on Jul 6 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

In GoTM Mammot mentions to Crokus something about so-and-so being the second to last of the Tyrant-kings, who then led the way for someone else who ended the age of the Tyrant-kings in Dar. So it seems like Tyrants are a recurring problem for this city, maybe whatever(or whoever) is buried out there in the mines is part of the House of Tyrants, he's been asleep for a while, but when Raest broke free it woke up...

see post #7 of this thread, above^^

[Slaav]

Anyone consider it might be the Segulah First.

I mean after all from finding the pickled segulah in the city to crokus' conversation with the segulah second its obvious that at one point segulah were the army of the tyrant of darujhistan and since the first has supposed absolute control over all other segulah then it would make perfect sense to be the tyrant since well thats pretty tyranical.

In addition he must be one real badass considering how the segulah third (Mok) is basically a 1 man army and the segulah second is powerful enough to earn a place in HHD.

Also the first has apparently never been seen by outsiders, perhaps he isn't even with the rest of the segulah but instead trapped near or in darujhistan as the tyrant is supposed to be maybe he is worshiped sort of the same way Anomander Rake is worshiped on letheras as the Black-winged lord.

Finally the segulah apparently have a healthy respect for sorcerers if going by the way Mok and co. act with Envy. It becomes obvious that her sorcery doesn't allow her to directly control them since she is unable to prevent them from challenging Tool but then why do they obey her? This respect for sorcery could stem from the fact that the tyrant was deposed by baruk and the rest of the mages.

One more thing, whoever the tyrant actually is hes got to be an ascendent of some kind. For him to be strong enough that three apparently very powerful mages won't be enough to stop him and for him to remain living after however many hundreds of years hes been imprisoned if he didn't start out immortal he became so along the way.

[Aptorian]

He is not the First, since the First is very much alive, well known by the powers, and he sits in the middle of the Seguleh politics on Seguleh Island.

How ever, the Tyrant could be the first "First", that's not impossible.

I think the Tyrant is dead, I think he needs to be summoned for him to return. His bones are probably burried beneath the city and that is what Humble Measure was looking for.

[lobo the wolfman]

I don't think the Segulah first is the Tyrant, as the first was mentioned in MOI as having sent Mok and co to deal with the Seer as Mok was a challenge to the first's postion.
If the first was a few thousand year old ascendant he wouldn't really be worried about a mortal swords man, no matter how good they are.
Plus the Tyrant would of have to been able to inspire fear in some pretty powerful mages ( the T'orrud Cabal) and again a mortal swordsman or woman for that matter wouldn't be able to do that.

[Aptorian]

 lobo the wolfman, on Jul 13 2009, 05:53 AM, said:

If the first was a few thousand year old ascendant he wouldn't really be worried about a mortal swords man, no matter how good they are.

Famous last words. You should go have a chat with Silchas Ruin about that one. Or maybe Rhulad.

[MTS]

Or the Errant, for that matter.

If the Tyrant turns out to be metaphorical, I will be severely disappointed. This guy has been mythologised up to be so badass, it would be criminal to turn out like that. Would make for some good philosophising material though. I'm inclined to agree with Apt's theory. I think he's lying in a tomb under Darujhistan, and Humble Measure is looking for it. Or there is a wellspring of his power under there, or a means to awaken him.

[coltainereborn]

What about the Tyrant on Assail that is mentioned in MOI? It's a human empire, but bad enough to wipe out a couple clans of Imass warriors. Could this be one of the big showdowns in the later books?

[Aptorian]

Nope. Assail is Esslemonts territory. He will be handling any storylines revolving around Assail. So you've still got a half a dozen years to wait before any of those questions get answered.

EDIT: Of course, if by later books you ment Esslemonts books, then I mean yes

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 25 July 2009 - 08:25 PM

[coltainereborn]

{off topic}no, I haven't gotten to any of Esselmonts books yet. that sucks I was hoping for some closure on the whole silverfox/ t'lan imass story line