[frank]

I'm not sure if someone already figured it out and wrote a post about it, but decided to post it NOW and not waste time finding out in case SE decides to tell us in DoD.

I just finished rereading TtH to be prepared for DoD and on page 883 of the large paperback just before the 2nd leaves Dragnipur he reasons that "The other seguleh were doomed anyway, and though in this last battle they had each redeemed something of their shame in dying to a forigner, that was no reason to fall at their sides"

This means that he didn't. And he is really pissed at skinner. So skinner, originally a seguleh, killed him and then went rouge rather than claiming his place. Hence skinner must be the missing 2nd.

Unless of course Esselmont reveals something else in tRotCG.

Now I'll take a bow (and hope I doesn't overbalance)

[Lisheo]

RotCG Spoilers.

Spoiler

Skinner and the Segulah Second are different people.

The quote about dying to a foreigner refers to Anomander, who it was revealed in MoI, went on a little trip to the Segulah Island. The Segulah Second doesn't want to die at their sides because, I think, he's been apart from Segulah society so long he's no longer a true Segulah, in mentality, anyway.

[frank]

The 2nd doesn't care that it was Rake. He was a FORIGNER! And he belives that they are less than full seguleh for it.

[Nep Furrow]

I think you are reading that passage wrong. All the Seguleh in Dargnipur died to a foreigner, Rake. This is why they are in Dragnipur in the first place. The foreigner they all lost to was Rake. If they had lost to Skinner they would not be in Dragnipur.

[beru]

and seg second is way older than skinner (he do rememberr that the segule lived in daru estimated 1000 years ago)

[Wampyry]

Nep Furrow, on Jul 1 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

I think you are reading that passage wrong. All the Seguleh in Dargnipur died to a foreigner, Rake. This is why they are in Dragnipur in the first place. The foreigner they all lost to was Rake. If they had lost to Skinner they would not be in Dragnipur.

Nep Furrow, nice explanation!

[frank]

I'm not sure where you mean this disagrees with my theory... Because this is my point exactly. They are there because they lost to Rake who is a forigner and in the 2 nd's opinion that is not good enough. My point was that skinner is a seguleh and thus NOT a forigner. The 2 nd is there with hood, not because he lost to Rake and feels contempt for the other seguleh

HOWEVER I must bow to the observation that the 2 nd is way to old for skinner to have killed him. Unless someone has some theory/explenation for that

[Abyss]

The 2nd didn't lose to Rake. If he did, all the MoI refs would have been to Rake as Second, not Seventh.

The 2nd is there because Hood recruited him. The others are there because Rake Dragnipur'd them on his visit ref's in MoI.

We don't know for certain whether the 2nd was killed and then recruited, like Baudin, or still lived when he was recruited by Hood, like Dassem.

Either way, something Skinner did REALLY pissed him off. And we also don't know if the 2nd was already Soldier/Knight when that conflict with Skinner happened.... and assuming it only happened once.

- Abyss, wants that story.

[Sheve]

We dont know enough to say what happend between the 2 and skinner.
There is no real reason to believe that the 2 is even dead, just because you look dead dont mean you have to be dead(Tlan imass).
And he certainly thinks of himself as the seguleh second, as does Hood.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Well the T'lan Imass are basically animated dead, I know they never technically died, but the ritual basically just bound their bodies to continue living long after they should have died of old age. They say once that the reason the T'lan Imass can turn to dust is because that is returning their bodies to the form they would be in if the ritual had never taken place.