[Hood's Path]

Tellan I believe could be infected.

His argument that an infected player may not want to risk being SO'd hoping that a there is a healer and b that heal will stop SO.

The DG would be better served infecting someone else tonight and not risk wasting an SO just to find out if there was healer and if heal can trump SO or just an ordinary kill.

Also killer wouldn't go for them so as not to waste a kill by having it healed.

So surely it would be safe for the first infected player to reveal, cause the possible heal action would make DG hesitate to act.

Unless the infected is hoping that DG is wlling to select him as replacement. Hence his argument about why it would be silly for infected to reveal.

[Tellan]

meh
my point still stands.
DG can also get lynched.

either way, I fail to see why the hell the first infected should be eager to reveal.

Liosan, please excuse me for expecting the players not on my team to actually not cooperate with our strategies. Shocking, I know.

[Galain]

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 02:57 PM, said:

Galain, on Jun 22 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Tellan, on Jun 22 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

why the hell would he?

he also has to work on WCS--DG may get killed night 1, and if he's also guarded, then the infectee's the only choice for a DG.

there's absolutely no reason for him to do a day 1 reveal. your suggestion may become useful later on, but not day 1

You have a valid point, but as I just stated, if the infected person does NOT reveal, he is guaranteeing his own death the moment someone else reveals infected.

Pay a little attention people, DG can not die night 1, he has a 1 hit BP, or did you miss that in your rush to make each other sound intelligent.

Morgoth, on Jun 17 2009, 07:36 PM, said:

Roles special for the game that will be present


The Doppelganger

1 hit BP

Actually why don't you guys go look through the above snipped post and read carefully....

I actually was agreeing under the idea that the DG gets LYNCHED day 1, not killed, but I didn't clarify that at the time. If the DG were to get lynched, then revealing today as the infected is sure-fire lose when Duncan cures you tonight and says, "Hey you're the new DG." Besdies, I'm more in the "he should reveal" camp, not just head-wagging with Tellan, whom I have firmly in my "mentally challenged" camp.

Since the infected doesn't know the DG, he can't exactly make a determination to reveal based on the DG's possible lynch.

[Omtose]

Rashan, on Jun 22 2009, 09:07 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jun 22 2009, 02:29 PM, said:

Rashan, on Jun 22 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jun 22 2009, 01:54 PM, said:

@Lio - fair enough...just wanted to be cautious.

@Sil - yes I was, but given Lio's comment about healer might NOT being able to heal an SO then I guess it makes everything I thought a bit pointless, except the bit about not PIing an infected, especially as Rashan's latest but one post mentions the inno bit again. (Did he really vote night??? )

yes I did vote for night. I like the idea of testing out the whole idea of an infected revealing that they are infected just to see what happens. (call me sick for asking someone to potentially lose for my sick pleasure)

So I fail to see how voting night and testing out an infected reveal are at all correlated.

right now there is only one person infected. As they are in line to replace the DG if we somehow manage to kill the DG they are not likely to reveal that they are infected. Therefore to test the theory out the DG needs to infect someone else. To do that we need to go to night. As a group I doubt that we can get a good feel of who we need to lynch during the first day so I say we get that first day over so the DG can infect someone so then that person can revel as being infected. And as I haven't heard any good case as to who to lynch at the moment I currently rest at ending the day at the moment. I also know it takes 11 votes to end the day so I doubt that very many other people would also agree to that and there will be more chatter. I just wanted to get my vote in where I currently stand if I have to step away for a while and miss some action.

I do not follow this logic at all. First, why would the DG simply plump for the infected he got given at the start of the game. That person might be playing like a total moron, wouldn't he much rather choose his own special someone? Second, if the first infected player isn't going to come forward why would the second (especially as DG could kill them both if they did reveal, but Duncan can only disinfect 1? Of course I may be getting that bit wrong again) - so having two unknown infected helps how exactly? (And I am not saying infected shouldn't reveal I wish they would, but no-one has made any movement so far and I think it's pinning a lot on an assumption that someone will risk outing themselves.) Going to night will in no way help the town. I also don't like the way you implied infected = inno, even after it had been pointed out that scum can be infected. (Yes I know they aren't technically scum after being infected, but if they are disinfected then they revert don't they?)

So

Vote Rashan


Edit: Cross posts

This post has been edited by Omtose: 22 June 2009 - 10:13 PM

[Liosan]

Tellan, on Jun 22 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

meh
my point still stands.
DG can also get lynched.

either way, I fail to see why the hell the first infected should be eager to reveal.

Liosan, please excuse me for expecting the players not on my team to actually not cooperate with our strategies. Shocking, I know.

I honestly don't expect them to either, but I find it incredibly odd that you are actively trying to convince them not to.

[Hood's Path]

The infected can't be on a winning team unless they fulfill certain obligations.

What I could see is five people claiming infected hoping that they are the one who gets healed.

[Tellan]

Dude, I don't BELIEVE they will.

as such, I consider your cajoling them to do so, even if you yourself don't believe they will, a waste of time. And I'm simply pointing that out.

[Liosan]

A waste of time? Seriously? That's your defense? That I'm wasting your time? On day 1?

[Hood's Path]

What I'm getting at is if they die as infected, it automatic loss for them, surely they will try to hit one of the requirements for becoming one side or the other.

What would you rather do accept being infected or try your best to either get yourself uninfected or get yourself on DG side to the point he may consider selecting you as a replacement and pray he bites the dust.

[Galain]

Hood's Path, on Jun 22 2009, 03:26 PM, said:

What I'm getting at is if they die as infected, it automatic loss for them, surely they will try to hit one of the requirements for becoming one side or the other.

What would you rather do accept being infected or try your best to either get yourself uninfected or get yourself on DG side to the point he may consider selecting you as a replacement and pray he bites the dust.

Yes, I'm sure everybody here is just clamoring to be the one person that everyone else is trying to get lynched. Are you volunteering for the job or something?

[Tellan]

sigh

untill the DG infects someone else, the random infectee's guaranteed a use--he's DG's replacement by default.

whereas revealing puts him in the mercy of Duncan, the scum, and the rest of us. not to mention DG will likely fry his synapses first chance he gets.

so yes, cajoling the random infect to reveal's pointless, and it's essentially the same thing as inno role speculation, on the scale of usefulness.

at least, that's my opinion

[Omtose]

Hood's Path, on Jun 22 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

What I'm getting at is if they die as infected, it automatic loss for them, surely they will try to hit one of the requirements for becoming one side or the other.

What would you rather do accept being infected or try your best to either get yourself uninfected or get yourself on DG side to the point he may consider selecting you as a replacement and pray he bites the dust.

Or hope that you stay alive and that he wins the game? To my mind trying to get yourself uninfected would be the only course where you have any element of control over what happens to you...not much control I grant you, but if you get uninfected and die and innos win, you still win.

But what are the odds that a player, whom you don't know and so can't symp, will decide that you are his best bet and will then conveniently die? Oh, and then you have to still stay alive...


I hope that makes sense, I am very tired and will be disappearing soon.

[Galain]

Honestly, how can you even think an infected person would want to stay infected in the early part of the game? The winning condition as infected is incredibly weak, especially with the DG's ability to SO.

[Eloth]

Galain, on Jun 23 2009, 12:10 AM, said:

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 02:57 PM, said:

Galain, on Jun 22 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Tellan, on Jun 22 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

why the hell would he?

he also has to work on WCS--DG may get killed night 1, and if he's also guarded, then the infectee's the only choice for a DG.

there's absolutely no reason for him to do a day 1 reveal. your suggestion may become useful later on, but not day 1

You have a valid point, but as I just stated, if the infected person does NOT reveal, he is guaranteeing his own death the moment someone else reveals infected.

Pay a little attention people, DG can not die night 1, he has a 1 hit BP, or did you miss that in your rush to make each other sound intelligent.

Morgoth, on Jun 17 2009, 07:36 PM, said:

Roles special for the game that will be present


The Doppelganger

1 hit BP

Actually why don't you guys go look through the above snipped post and read carefully....

I actually was agreeing under the idea that the DG gets LYNCHED day 1, not killed, but I didn't clarify that at the time. If the DG were to get lynched, then revealing today as the infected is sure-fire lose when Duncan cures you tonight and says, "Hey you're the new DG." Besdies, I'm more in the "he should reveal" camp, not just head-wagging with Tellan, whom I have firmly in my "mentally challenged" camp.

Since the infected doesn't know the DG, he can't exactly make a determination to reveal based on the DG's possible lynch.

If an infected revealed today and the DG was lynched, then Duncan wouldnt have to heal the infected to know he was the new DG - there wouldn't be anyone else it possibly could be.

Hood's Path, on Jun 23 2009, 12:17 AM, said:

The infected can't be on a winning team unless they fulfill certain obligations.

What I could see is five people claiming infected hoping that they are the one who gets healed.

By that point the infected would have a pretty good chance of surviving till then end of game along with the DG, why would they want to reveal and ask to be healed.



As interesting an idea as the infected constantly revealing is, there are several reasons they likely wont, which have been brought up before:

We dont know for a fact that we have a healer. The DG can kill whichever infected he feels isnt worth keeping around and a revealed infected would definitely classify in that category.
Even if we do have a healer, we are then forcing them to devote all their time to only ever healing infected, meaning the killers have almost nothing to fear.
If the healer dies it would become obvious that this is the case - information both scum teams are better off not having.
We wont know whether the DG or Shriek has been hit if some unrevealed comes up as infected.

There's just too many ways the plan could possibly fall to pieces. Maybe the first one or two infectees might be willing to chance it, but it's really there choice. I dont see any strategy that will immediately nullify the DG, Morgy wouldnt build a game so easily broken.

[Omtose]

Hood's Path, on Jun 22 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

What I'm getting at is if they die as infected, it automatic loss for them, surely they will try to hit one of the requirements for becoming one side or the other.

What would you rather do accept being infected or try your best to either get yourself uninfected or get yourself on DG side to the point he may consider selecting you as a replacement and pray he bites the dust.

Or hope that you stay alive and that he wins the game? To my mind trying to get yourself uninfected would be the only course where you have any element of control over what happens to you...not much control I grant you, but if you get uninfected and die and innos win, you still win.

But what are the odds that a player, whom you don't know and so can't symp, will decide that you are his best bet and will then conveniently die? Oh, and then you have to still stay alive...


I hope that makes sense, I am very tired and will be disappearing soon.


Edit: Cross post

This post has been edited by Omtose: 22 June 2009 - 10:41 PM

[Omtose]

Hood's Path, on Jun 22 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

What I'm getting at is if they die as infected, it automatic loss for them, surely they will try to hit one of the requirements for becoming one side or the other.

What would you rather do accept being infected or try your best to either get yourself uninfected or get yourself on DG side to the point he may consider selecting you as a replacement and pray he bites the dust.

Or hope that you stay alive and that he wins the game? To my mind trying to get yourself uninfected would be the only course where you have any element of control over what happens to you...not much control I grant you, but if you get uninfected and die and innos win, you still win.

But what are the odds that a player, whom you don't know and so can't symp, will decide that you are his best bet and will then conveniently die? Oh, and then you have to still stay alive...


I hope that makes sense, I am very tired and will be disappearing soon.


EDIT: Stupid internet - could P-S please delete the repeated post.

Edit #2 - how the hell did it appear 3 times????

This post has been edited by Omtose: 22 June 2009 - 10:42 PM

[Tellan]

Omtose, did you just write that twice?

[Liosan]

Tellan, on Jun 22 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

sigh

untill the DG infects someone else, the random infectee's guaranteed a use--he's DG's replacement by default.

whereas revealing puts him in the mercy of Duncan, the scum, and the rest of us. not to mention DG will likely fry his synapses first chance he gets.

so yes, cajoling the random infect to reveal's pointless, and it's essentially the same thing as inno role speculation, on the scale of usefulness.

at least, that's my opinion

I still don't see a good reason as to why you're trying to help out someone who's not on your team. That is, unless you are on the same team.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 18 hours and 34 minutes remaining

21 Players still alive: Ampelas, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Kaschan, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Serc, Silanah, Tellan, Thyrllan

11 votes to lynch, 11 votes to go to night

1 vote for Tellan: ( Liosan )
1 vote for Hood's Path: ( Silanah )
1 vote for Eloth: ( Serc )
1 vote for Silanah: ( Thyrllan )
1 vote for Karatallid: ( Mockra )
1 vote for Liosan: ( D'riss )
3 votes for Rashan: ( Tellan, Galain, Omtose )
2 votes for Thyrllan: ( Karatallid, Hood's Path )
1 vote for Night: ( Rashan )

Players not voted: Ampelas, Barghast, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Kaschan, Korlat, Meanas

Looks like things are going well....I will be popping in periodically as I am doing the laundry/making dinner/taking a online midterm.... Don't fret though I am around...

Vengeance

[Kaschan]

WOW, the fast games are back! Catching up the thread. Also, this is the first game Kaschan has been used in since April, so I'm glad to get to ressurrect him.