[Obdigore]

Abyss, on Jun 8 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

Zanth13, on Jun 8 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Harry is also being considered to replace the gatekeeper,...

speculation or reference?

- Abyss, rings a bell but not sure.

Speculation. Afaik the only thing that ties this together is when Ebanezer was talking to someone about Harry bonding with Demonreach, he said only Harry and Rashid and maybe one or two others could do it, or something along those lines.

Edit -

So it just occured to me. Is 'Gatekeeper' a title just as 'Blackstaff' or 'Merlin' is? I figured it was a chosen name or something since names have power, but I wonder... Is he perhaps half outsider or something and watches over any known 'gates' from the outside to the earth/faerie? Outsiders come from outside faerie as well afaik... hrm.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 08 June 2009 - 08:07 PM

[RangerSG]

Obdigore, on Jun 8 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 8 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

Zanth13, on Jun 8 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Harry is also being considered to replace the gatekeeper,...

speculation or reference?

- Abyss, rings a bell but not sure.

Speculation. Afaik the only thing that ties this together is when Ebanezer was talking to someone about Harry bonding with Demonreach, he said only Harry and Rashid and maybe one or two others could do it, or something along those lines.

Edit -

So it just occured to me. Is 'Gatekeeper' a title just as 'Blackstaff' or 'Merlin' is? I figured it was a chosen name or something since names have power, but I wonder... Is he perhaps half outsider or something and watches over any known 'gates' from the outside to the earth/faerie? Outsiders come from outside faerie as well afaik... hrm.

It's a title. His name is Rashid, as I recall. And he specifically invokes Allah to Harry in Summer Knight. Now, I don't know how many of the Senior Council members have "normal" origins as such. Heck, it's still open speculation whether Harry himself isn't part fae (given his mother's name).

But his duty is to monitor the outer gates and make sure nothing forces its way in. Also if someone summons from beyond the outer gates (in violation of the Laws of Magic) he can call down the Wardens on the warlock. And outer gates in this case means yes, beyond the Nevernever even.

This post has been edited by RangerSG: 08 June 2009 - 10:22 PM

[Obdigore]

RangerSG, on Jun 8 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

Obdigore, on Jun 8 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 8 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

Zanth13, on Jun 8 2009, 11:58 AM, said:

Harry is also being considered to replace the gatekeeper,...

speculation or reference?

- Abyss, rings a bell but not sure.

Speculation. Afaik the only thing that ties this together is when Ebanezer was talking to someone about Harry bonding with Demonreach, he said only Harry and Rashid and maybe one or two others could do it, or something along those lines.

Edit -

So it just occured to me. Is 'Gatekeeper' a title just as 'Blackstaff' or 'Merlin' is? I figured it was a chosen name or something since names have power, but I wonder... Is he perhaps half outsider or something and watches over any known 'gates' from the outside to the earth/faerie? Outsiders come from outside faerie as well afaik... hrm.

It's a title. His name is Rashid, as I recall. And he specifically invokes Allah to Harry in Summer Knight. Now, I don't know how many of the Senior Council members have "normal" origins as such. Heck, it's still open speculation whether Harry himself isn't part fae (given his mother's name).

But his duty is to monitor the outer gates and make sure nothing forces its way in. Also if someone summons from beyond the outer gates (in violation of the Laws of Magic) he can call down the Wardens on the warlock. And outer gates in this case means yes, beyond the Nevernever even.

Her name was explained in Turncoat. Harry was not Part Fae.

Is this stuff about Rashid (Yes, I know that it is the Gatekeeper's name) - Is this a guess about his duties or were they hinted to somewhere?

[Fox]

Its in White Knight that Lash tells Harry that the circumstances of his birth were meant to give him power over outsiders- this is why he has twice been able to defeat a powerful Outsider- He Who Walks Behind (I think it was Bob who says that HWWB was a badass).


In Turn Coat we are given a very little bit of information on Harry's mom, apparently she got her nickname "Lefay" because she knew the Ways in and out of the NeverNever better than pretty much anyone. Though that doesn't rule out the possibility of them having some Fae blood.


TC gives us a hint that Ebenezer McCoy considers Harry a good candidate for taking up "that particular mantle."
We don't really know what that mantle is yet. There has been some speculation that at one time, there was only one Warden, and that it was specific title- actually this has sort of been confirmed by Jim Butcher (by way of answering a fan's question at a signing somewhere). Some people over on the JB forum think that the original Warden may have had something to do with guarding the Ways in and out of the NeverNever, and I think this is the leading theory for the mantle Eb mentions, at the moment.

[RangerSG]

Fox, on Jun 8 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Its in White Knight that Lash tells Harry that the circumstances of his birth were meant to give him power over outsiders- this is why he has twice been able to defeat a powerful Outsider- He Who Walks Behind (I think it was Bob who says that HWWB was a badass).


In Turn Coat we are given a very little bit of information on Harry's mom, apparently she got her nickname "Lefay" because she knew the Ways in and out of the NeverNever better than pretty much anyone. Though that doesn't rule out the possibility of them having some Fae blood.

All true, but this hasn't stopped considerable speculation on the Butcher forum that Maggie (and thus Harry) wasn't part Fae, as you noted. Or even descended from "that" LeFay. Butcher has not been afraid to pull on bits of the Arthurian cycle or the Matter of France before.

[Assail]

RangerSG, on Jun 8 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

Fox, on Jun 8 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Its in White Knight that Lash tells Harry that the circumstances of his birth were meant to give him power over outsiders- this is why he has twice been able to defeat a powerful Outsider- He Who Walks Behind (I think it was Bob who says that HWWB was a badass).


In Turn Coat we are given a very little bit of information on Harry's mom, apparently she got her nickname "Lefay" because she knew the Ways in and out of the NeverNever better than pretty much anyone. Though that doesn't rule out the possibility of them having some Fae blood.

All true, but this hasn't stopped considerable speculation on the Butcher forum that Maggie (and thus Harry) wasn't part Fae, as you noted. Or even descended from "that" LeFay. Butcher has not been afraid to pull on bits of the Arthurian cycle or the Matter of France before.

Good point, albeit quite obvious. The whole Merlin and council idea is quite Arthurian in itself, it would be no surprise if he through the original LeFay into the mix through Harry.

[Abyss]

Butcher has gone one further and said (in the storeis) that Michael's sword was carried by the original Arthur who got it from the original Merlin. Leave it to Butcher to make a logical link between Jesus, the Knights of God, Camelot and the White Council.

Which also means that in addition to having an archangel helping him, Harry is now directly tied into the operation of the Knights of God in the same way the original Merlin may have been, what with two swords with pieces of the cross of the crucifixion in them sitting in his hall closet waiting for him to find people to weild them. And he's a 'Lord' to the wild fae and the Winter Queen wants him for her knight and his half brother and ex are vampires (ish) and he has power over outsiders and his dog is an asian spirit guardian and his mom was a big skanky ho...

- Abyss, notes you have to give Butcher credit for not being afraid to mix and match his mythologies and still make it work.

[Assail]

Abyss, on Jun 9 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

Butcher has gone one further and said (in the storeis) that Michael's sword was carried by the original Arthur who got it from the original Merlin. Leave it to Butcher to make a logical link between Jesus, the Knights of God, Camelot and the White Council.

Which also means that in addition to having an archangel helping him, Harry is now directly tied into the operation of the Knights of God in the same way the original Merlin may have been, what with two swords with pieces of the cross of the crucifixion in them sitting in his hall closet waiting for him to find people to weild them. And he's a 'Lord' to the wild fae and the Winter Queen wants him for her knight and his half brother and ex are vampires (ish) and he has power over outsiders and his dog is an asian spirit guardian and his mom was a big skanky ho...

- Abyss, notes you have to give Butcher credit for not being afraid to mix and match his mythologies and still make it work.

Lmao thanks for putting it all so bluntly Abyss In my opinion, Sanya dies in the last book, Harry gets his sword and combines it into an awesomesauce crucifix of Jesus/Heaven and goes marching into Hell to smite Satan himself!

You guys have it all wrong

[Abyss]

Y'know... Wardens weild swords.
Maybe the next generation of Knights will be wizards. If the baddies keep getting badder, maybe the Knights need to too...
Also, Carlos, good catholic that he is, was still a virgin as of White Night... wasn't Gawain supposed to be a virgin?


- Abyss, ....may be on to something there...

[Assail]

Abyss, on Jun 9 2009, 07:55 AM, said:

Y'know... Wardens weild swords.
Maybe the next generation of Knights will be wizards. If the baddies keep getting badder, maybe the Knights need to too...
Also, Carlos, good catholic that he is, was still a virgin as of White Night... wasn't Gawain supposed to be a virgin?


- Abyss, ....may be on to something there...

You know you may be right. Butcher has already opened us up to the possibility of wizards/non-Christians being able to wield aspects of heavenly power. Harry has Soulfire, Sanya has claimed constantly that his faith is not that of Christianity. I think that you may be correct in assuming Butcher is opening us up for a couple of wizards being given the swords. That or Harry using them in some kind of ritual to take out some massive strong power. Who knows. There's so much with Uriel getting involved and all that.

Off topic but I want to know more about the 'Blackstaff' storyline and what Kincaid actually is... damn it Butcher! Stop dribbling it out!

[Obdigore]

Kincade is the son of a mortal parent and a fae/demon parent. He looks mortal but has 'toughness' and possibly other abilities on the fae/demon level.

[Abyss]

When Harry Looked at Kincaid he saw something thoroughly evil.

So naturally Murphy buggered off to Hawaii with the guy and sheboinged like bunnies (albeit one evil bunny and one cop bunny) for a few weeks.

- Abyss, ...always figured Murphy would go for the bad boy type...

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on Jun 9 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

When Harry Looked at Kincaid he saw something thoroughly evil.

So naturally Murphy buggered off to Hawaii with the guy and sheboinged like bunnies (albeit one evil bunny and one cop bunny) for a few weeks.

- Abyss, ...always figured Murphy would go for the bad boy type...

Hrm - I thought he just saw something that looked vaguely demonish, not something completely evil, as if he is fighting his evil sides influence, much like Thomas, or Harry vs Lash.

Moral of the Series: Everyone has an inner demon.

[RangerSG]

Assail, on Jun 9 2009, 10:03 AM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 9 2009, 07:55 AM, said:

Y'know... Wardens weild swords.
Maybe the next generation of Knights will be wizards. If the baddies keep getting badder, maybe the Knights need to too...
Also, Carlos, good catholic that he is, was still a virgin as of White Night... wasn't Gawain supposed to be a virgin?


- Abyss, ....may be on to something there...

You know you may be right. Butcher has already opened us up to the possibility of wizards/non-Christians being able to wield aspects of heavenly power. Harry has Soulfire, Sanya has claimed constantly that his faith is not that of Christianity. I think that you may be correct in assuming Butcher is opening us up for a couple of wizards being given the swords. That or Harry using them in some kind of ritual to take out some massive strong power. Who knows. There's so much with Uriel getting involved and all that.

I agree that that the Knights do not have to be Christian perse. But there has to be a purity about them in some way. So I don't see Harry ever using such a sword, since he lives in a world of greys.

My bets are for Murphy and Carlos to get the swords. Yes, I know Murphy turned it down once. But I think she'll tire of not being able to really help anymore, or the CPD will finally bounce her out, and she'll take the sword of faith because of her belief in law and order. Carlos just seems right for the sword of love in a way that no other character in the series does.

[Coco with marshmallows]

isn't it mentioned at one point that kincaid is essentially dracula's half-brother?

Ebeneezer says something like 'he's the son of Dracul'
Harry goes 'dracula?'
and Eb goes 'no, the original, his father'

or words to that effect.

[Obdigore]

Cocoreturns, on Jun 9 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

isn't it mentioned at one point that kincaid is essentially dracula's half-brother?

Ebeneezer says something like 'he's the son of Dracul'
Harry goes 'dracula?'
and Eb goes 'no, the original, his father'

or words to that effect.

No,

Kincaid is 'the hellhound'. He was Dracula's right hand man. Dracula was a pansy compared to his father, Drakul.

[Slow Ben]

Are you sure the rest of the quote isnt correct though? Someone telling Harry Kincaid was Drakul, not Dracula's, right hand man.

[Obdigore]

Slow Ben, on Jun 9 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

Are you sure the rest of the quote isnt correct though? Someone telling Harry Kincaid was Drakul, not Dracula's, right hand man.

He isn't... its in the one where Harry and Ebenezer and Murphy and Kincade go after Mavra in the free clinic, let me go grab it and find the passage, hold on.

Blood Rites - American Paperback page 260, first paragraph:
"For just a second I saw something standing there. something enormous, malformed, something silent and merciless and deadly. It had to crouch to keep from brushing the ceiling with the horns curling away from its head, and batlike wings spread from its shoulders to fall around it and behind it, to drag along the floor, and I thought I saw some kind of hideous double image lurking behind it like the corpse=specter of Death himself."

That is when Harry sees kincade with his sight. Notice it never said he was EVIL, just that he looked like what we assume to be evil.

same book, page 295, third paragraph, Harry just asked if Kincade was human:
"Ebenezar shook his head.
'Then what is he?'
'There are people walking around who carry the blood of the Nevernever in them,' Ebenezar said. 'Changelings, for one, those who are half-Sidhe. The faeries aren't the only ones who can breed with humanity, thought, and the scions of such unions can have a lot of power. Their offspring are usually malformed. Freakish. Often insane. But sometimes the child looks human.'
'Like Kincaid.'
Ebenezar nodded. 'He's older than I am. When I met him, I still had hair and he had been serving the creature for centuries.'
'What creature?' I asked.
'The creatuer,' Ebenezar said, 'another half-mortal like Kincade. Vlad Drakul.'
I blinked. 'Vlad Tepesh? Dracula?'
Ebenezar shook his head. 'Dracula was the son of Drakul, and pretty pale and skinny by comparison...(snip) 'And Kincade was his right arm for centuries. He was known as the Hound of Hell. Or just the Hellhound.'"

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 10 June 2009 - 12:40 AM

[Assail]

Good stuff, thanks for clarifying guys. So basically he's one of those rare half fae who manage to kick major ass. Cool.

Carlos would be an excellent candidate for one of the swords, I suspect that this issue will be dealt with in the next book especially since Michael is out of the picture ( ) God I can't wait. And to think I'll have it done in a couple of short hours and be left waiting another year for the next. Arghhhh.

[Slow Ben]

OK, by reading that i still see it the same way. He was Drakul's man, not Dracula's. Ebenezar says he'd been serving "Vlad Drakul".


Thanks for posting the quote. I am, sadly, missing that book.

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 10 June 2009 - 02:15 AM