[Mezla PigDog]

I haven't read the whole thread so may be repeating what others have said here (I saw a chance to gossip and give sage advice and jumped straight to the "reply" button )

The first rule of Malazan relationships is to not trust Sombra! I haven't read his reply but I can bet it is full of woman-phobic vitriol (no offense intended, we love him for it really)!

I think her reply is quite honest actually. One thing women do is put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do things right. And not just "right", we feel a huge compulsion to EVERYTHING "perfectly". The younger we are, the more confused we are about the whole thing and the emotional carnage travels further. She just doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, either because she doesn't like you THAT much or because of how she feels in her mental woman head. Take it as a compliment that she clearly wants to do the right thing by you and leave it at that.

As for further invitations, just say no. Nothing is worse than dragging out a confusing relationship due to some misguided idea that things might work out in the end. Be honest with her and say her confusion has lead to you feeling quite weird and a sharp end is for the best. You can tell her to get in touch in the future when she feels less mental about things.

Relationships aren't difficult as long as both parties are open and honest. If things feel weird, then it just ain't right and you need to save yourself!

EDIT - Just read Sombra's reply! LOL, I've been on the boards too long.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 18 May 2009 - 09:29 AM

[Cause]

More than anything what pissed me off so much is not that we broke up but the why. Her reason is iether some misguided lie to spare my feeling, Id rather hear her say well never work if thats the reason and know for sure than a lie, or she is as some of you put it mentally insanse and I need to convince her that we dont have to be planning the honeymoon or whatever just yet to mean our relationship was working. I had high hopes for the relationship and if it had to end I wish it would have been for a real reason, or at least one I could understand.

But than what confuses me more is a week after we break up she is asking me to be her 'date' to a party. Does she just want to be friends? Than she should have asked me to coffee or something. Is she trying to see if we can fix things? She should just ask. Is she trying to have me be her boyfriend without having to commit in return? All in all confusing.

What I tried to get across before is we were friends for a while before we started dating. We have friends in common. I cant just say fuck off and leave it on bad terms. Still that does not mean I have to be her date a party. Im kinda inclined to go at the moment just to see her and talk and get any confusion over with.

As for the rest. Who know there may be another man. That said I doubt she cheated on me while we were dating. Its so beyond her character.

[Tsundoku]

Mezla PigDog, on May 18 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

The first rule of Malazan relationships is to not trust Sombra! I haven't read his reply but I can bet it is full of woman-phobic vitriol (no offense intended, we love him for it really)!

EDIT - Just read Sombra's reply! LOL, I've been on the boards too long.

I wonder what the technical term for "woman-phobia" is? No, it's not misogynist, that's a "woman-HATER". I'd also like to point out that I neither hate nor fear women. I tend to like them, actually. Some of them quite a lot.
I hate evil/manipulative/psycho/bunny boiler/she-devil/bitches. So there. Nyah.

Maybe you picked up that she was a headcase and that's how you predicted my response Mez?

Anyhoo, I think Frookie and TB made good points with (to quote Frookie)
"My idea would be to play the game and pick up the phone and say: "Listen what you did was pretty fucked up and if you come down here right now and give me a damn good reason why I should go along with you, if its good enough, I'm good to go." I'll leave the entry and exit strategy up to you.

This way she has to fight to get you to go and you wont be at her beck and call, I'm pretty sure you want to go with her, but it'll be under your own terms.

Oh and Tehol has a strong argument with regards to the whole dominance thing and she might be right too."

LoT deserves rep for
"everyone has an agenda except for the truely christlike."

I was going to pilfer SMs' little gem for my sig, but TB beat me to it, damn her! *shakes fist in direction of Canada*

@Cause
Hope it goes well for you anyway, whatever course you choose. Stay strong mate.

Cheers,

La Sombra, probably should have used the quote button

[Mezla PigDog]

@ Cause, just go for all out honest with her and explain your reaction to her actions. You are being rational about it so have nothing to be sorry for. I think her email you quoted could very well be the truth and caused by the fact she hasn't had much relationship experience and is young but also is your average human with a truck load of emotional baggage behind them.

I say the best way to go is keep your distance from one-on-one date-like events. You will still see her when you are out with mutual friends so you can see what develops after you have made it clear that the ball is in her court when she has stopped being confused.

[Obdigore]

Cause, your actions should follow this guideline:

1) Tell her you wish to have a face to face chat before you decide wether or not to go to her social event.
2) Ask her the real reason for breaking it off with you. Tell her you won't be mad, or angry, or sad, but that you would like to know.

Solution1: If she persists in the 'its not you, its me'(hereafter refered to as 'inyim') section, she could be one of the twilightlovers and have a distorted view of just what relationships are, can be, and or should be. If you think you can fix said distorted view, then do what you deem best (and I would assume that would be to attend with her). Unless she is lying about it, which is very possible.
Solution2: If she admits to wanting to date a different guy or that she wasn't confortable in the relationship, the question is, will you be comfortable going to social events on her arm? I would guess no, but that is a personal judgement.

On the other hand, I have seen Sombra's scenario in action, and in that case Rodeo's advice (RUN!) is the best given.

[Cause]

If its another guy I suspect I will never talk to her again. I would deserve better and dont need to put up with that crap. That said I really doubt it. Yeah I intend to just ask her if she was being honest in her reasonings for breaking up with me. Whatever she says I suppose Ill have to just leave it after that if its not favourable.

[Fist Gamet]

Well, I am with Mezla on this one, I got the strong impression she was trying to tell you the truth but she was finding it hard to articulate - which is why we have seperate words for "feelings" and "thoughts". Even if she is not entirely sure herself, she felt strongly enough that she had to do it, and it sounds like she values your friendship highly, so much so that she agonised but finally hurt you to avoid hurting you more.

For me, agonising over the reasons, real, imagined, exagerated or otherwise doesn't really matter, so just keep it simple for yourself. You have to try and talk to this girl, let her know you want to be friends, find out if she wants the same. Sometimes just letting people know you don't hold any bad feelings and that you are around if they want to get together or whatever is the way to go. Just get your own feelings clear, that way you avoid getting messed in the head and heart if she bounces around one way then the other. Be cool, be a friend. Who knows, it might be the very thing she needs.

Overall, trust your instinct, life ain't worth the living if we don't take the odd risk!

[amphibian]

dktorode, on May 18 2009, 04:02 AM, said:

Could also be that you were just treating her too nicely, nice guys always come last.
Pretend you couldn't care less about her and she will come running back...

This had better be a joke. Genuine people tend to finish first - by a wide margin.

Obdigore, on May 18 2009, 04:54 PM, said:

Cause, your actions should follow this guideline:

1) Tell her you wish to have a face to face chat before you decide wether or not to go to her social event.
2) Ask her the real reason for breaking it off with you. Tell her you won't be mad, or angry, or sad, but that you would like to know.

Yeah, asking for the "real reason" isn't going to put her immediately on the defensive and screw things up before they even get going. Do you even talk to women like real people?

Mezla PigDog, on May 18 2009, 05:23 AM, said:

I think her reply is quite honest actually. One thing women do is put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do things right. And not just "right", we feel a huge compulsion to EVERYTHING "perfectly". The younger we are, the more confused we are about the whole thing and the emotional carnage travels further. She just doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, either because she doesn't like you THAT much or because of how she feels in her mental woman head. Take it as a compliment that she clearly wants to do the right thing by you and leave it at that.

Clearly? I wouldn't go that far.

Quote

As for further invitations, just say no. Nothing is worse than dragging out a confusing relationship due to some misguided idea that things might work out in the end. Be honest with her and say her confusion has lead to you feeling quite weird and a sharp end is for the best. You can tell her to get in touch in the future when she feels less mental about things.

Relationships aren't difficult as long as both parties are open and honest. If things feel weird, then it just ain't right and you need to save yourself!

Despite that "clearly" thing, I think that the bolded portion of Mezla's words are good.

But if things feel weird, tell the other person about what you're going through. Sometimes you can work through things and sometimes you can't. Open, effective communication lets you figure out which category you're in much faster.

Cause, on May 18 2009, 06:10 AM, said:

More than anything what pissed me off so much is not that we broke up but the why. Her reason is iether some misguided lie to spare my feeling, Id rather hear her say well never work if thats the reason and know for sure than a lie, or she is as some of you put it mentally insanse and I need to convince her that we dont have to be planning the honeymoon or whatever just yet to mean our relationship was working. I had high hopes for the relationship and if it had to end I wish it would have been for a real reason, or at least one I could understand.

But than what confuses me more is a week after we break up she is asking me to be her 'date' to a party. Does she just want to be friends? Than she should have asked me to coffee or something. Is she trying to see if we can fix things? She should just ask. Is she trying to have me be her boyfriend without having to commit in return? All in all confusing.

What I tried to get across before is we were friends for a while before we started dating. We have friends in common. I cant just say fuck off and leave it on bad terms. Still that does not mean I have to be her date a party. Im kinda inclined to go at the moment just to see her and talk and get any confusion over with.

As for the rest. Who know there may be another man. That said I doubt she cheated on me while we were dating. Its so beyond her character.

There doesn't have to be physical cheating. She might just like someone else more than you. It's also possible that she's a head case, but the oddly polite, yet emotionally fraught reason for the break-up makes me think she's hiding something. And that something is usually an attraction to someone else.

Hiding things is not a good sign. There are some deep communication problems here. I doubt you guys ever maintained the bare minimum constant communication required for a real long-term relationship. Maybe things have changed. I bet some of it's your fault too, dude.

Hell, I got my own issues with that too. Working on them, slowly.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I would say your first step is decide what you want from her. Relationship? Do you actually truly want to still be friends, or are you just wiling to be friends with the hope it will lead to a relationship?

Then, flat out ask her what her intentions are for this date. At this point don't try to get an explanation of why you broke up, that's not coming anytime soon. Ask specifically about this upcoming event. If she says you're going as friends, if you aren't 100% sure that you want to be friends for the sake of being friends and not in the hopes of hooking back up, say no. "But Ray," you say, "this might be my chance to hook it back up!" If she's thinking of getting back with you, but won't truthfully answer a simple question, it would indicate to me that she's a dram queen who will always make you crazy.

If she says she's thinking of getting back together, insist on a satisfactory explanation first.

[Obdigore]

So wait Amphibian, you claim you have relationship communication problems, then claim I don't talk to women like real people?

Not my fault you apparently think being truthfull or asking questions is a bad thing in a relationship.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 19 May 2009 - 06:16 PM

[Darkwatch]

My advice is as follows:

I have none.

Though I wish you good luck.

[amphibian]

Obdigore, on May 19 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

So wait Amphibian, you claim you have relationship communication problems, then claim I don't talk to women like real people?

Not my fault you apparently think being truthfull or asking questions is a bad thing in a relationship.

Flat out asking someone for the "real reason" behind a situation like this is a dumb thing to do. It immediately puts them on the defensive and sets yourself up as superior. That's not conducive to good communication.

My problems aren't ones involving bad communication, but rather keeping it consistent instead of sporadically on and off.

[Obdigore]

amphibian, on May 19 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Obdigore, on May 19 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

So wait Amphibian, you claim you have relationship communication problems, then claim I don't talk to women like real people?

Not my fault you apparently think being truthfull or asking questions is a bad thing in a relationship.

Flat out asking someone for the "real reason" behind a situation like this is a dumb thing to do. It immediately puts them on the defensive and sets yourself up as superior. That's not conducive to good communication.

My problems aren't ones involving bad communication, but rather keeping it consistent instead of sporadically on and off.

So you would rather beat around the bush through half-truths and assumptions, instead of just asking for the information you want? It does not set anyone up as superior or inferior, it is a simple question that needs to be answered before Cause can decide anything.

If she is lying, then quit it.

If she is telling the truth and quite confused, then he has some thinking to do. Basing decisions off assumptions of other people's actions is foolish and leads to disaster and misunderstanding more often than not.

[Darkwatch]

Obdigore, on May 19 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

If she is telling the truth and quite confused, then he has some thinking to do. Basing decisions off assumptions of other people's actions is foolish and leads to disaster and misunderstanding more often than not.

I can say that obdi is more than right here.

[frookenhauer]

But Amp has a bloody good point to the flat out asking her the question and getting her on the defensive. Its true and it really does happen...I have lost so many bloody sales (yes it still applies) by being too flat out direct, an oblique approach (notice I did not say dancing around ) works for a lot of situations and people.

However Obdi is totally correct when he says that having a face to face before they go out 'as friends' is perfectly fine and I'd say is ideal.

Oh and Dktrodes classic: Pretend you couldn't care less and she'll come running back...Amp, really my man, I think it'll bloody well work. Its a classic bastard trick and bastards get the girls, not the best ones...actually that's not true...bastards. Do not underestimate the power of "whatever"

Oh and Cause, best of luck with this one mate and if you get the chance to do it all again, take firm control of the situation and her, she seems like a person who would definitely take direction well. Damn that sounds really bad, but probably true, what do you think?

[Morgoth]

@Cause - I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I remember us talking about her around the time you first asked her out, so I know she seemed a great girl.

Advice in these kind of situations is always hard, and the internet is not famed for being good about relationships, still my advice would be to end it where you are now. Stretching it out by going with her will only make it worse. It's important I think to get a sort of finality to the break and not be in a sort of relationship limbo. The longer you stay there the more difficult it is to get out.

The it's not you it's me thing sounds like an excuse without much substance, but as Mezla mentioned, it's hard to say. She might just be confused. When all is said and done though, I don't think it should matter. Unless you're convinced that this girl is the one and only, you really are better served saving yourself from the years of crap that such relationships generaly produce.

[Abyss]

Slather yourself in animal blood and body glitter and show up at her door and tell her she's your own personal brand of heroine. She'll be putty in your hands. Trust me.


In the alternative, it's over. Accept it. Move on. Closure is a myth created by people who like watching other people squirm while they make still other people squirm while seeking 'closure'. It does not matter if she was telling some subjective rationalizing version of the truth or lying through her teeth. You must needs accept that she. does not. want to be. your girlfriend. Does not. Not your girlfriend. Not. You are not meant to be together. You do not have to 'stay friends'. You do not need to spend hours and days trying to 'explain' anything. You can be in her presence amongst mutual friends and be perfectly friendly, but you do not go on 'dates', you do not spend hours talking/msging/emailing, you do not do ANYTHING that even remotely pulls you back to where you were before. Before is done. Move on. Date someone else. Accept that sonner or later (probably sooner) she'll date someone else and you'll have a run of pit of the stomach nausea, which, i guarantee, will pass. You may feel like shite now. You may feel like shite tomorrow. You may feel mildly better the day after tomorrow and then think about her and go back to feeling like shite again, but trust me on this, it passes.


Or hey, go with the body glitter and blood thing. It worked for me some guy i know. i mean, i know someone who knows that guy. really.

- Abyss, ...now even more sparkly...

This post has been edited by Abyss: 20 May 2009 - 11:48 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

In these situations I usually just order a new bride from Russia.

[Bhurnae]

I just dont get all the angst here................sit her down and tell her that you dont want commitment either and you just look upon her as a random fuckbuddy

Brought to you by Carlsberg Relationship Advisory Council

[HoosierDaddy]

Lord knows a good F-Buddy is hard to find. And worth their weight in orgasms.