[KeithF]

I am most certainly not defending Twilight - as I said earlier in the thread, I don't think it's the seventh sign of the apocalypse or anything, but I definitely agree that it's bland, frequently silly rubbish that doesn't deserve its rabid fandom. My point about anime/manga was that it's a very diverse medium and to say all of it is crap is just as silly as saying it's all brilliant. If you personally don't like it, fair enough, but there's no need to be a jerk to everyone who does like some of it, particularly as they may agree with you about specific examples of the medium. I don't think it's fair to judge an entire medium (or, more accurately I suppose, all the examples of a given medium produced by a given country) as objectively worthless in the same way that a particular book/series can be judged. Would you claim (for example) that all live-action American cinema is worthless because a large fraction of mainstream Hollywood movies are rubbish? People sometimes make more or less the same mistake with anime/manga, because the examples of it that get the most exposure are often repetitive/unimaginative/stupid.

Anyway, I'm probably wasting my time and don't particularly want to get in an argument about it, as you've probably all made your minds up on the subject already.

[Mentalist]

more importantly, you are unlikely to be able to get a serious discussion going in the Inn.

however, I'm sure the issue can be discussed in the Movies and Music forum, since that is more appropriate place for a such a discussion.

[Darkwatch]

Anyway back to the topic.

Twilight should not be allowed as school reading.

Edit: typos

This post has been edited by Darkwatch: 22 May 2009 - 03:17 AM

[Mentalist]

why?

[Assail]

Reading this thread really makes me want to post a picture of Girugamesh guy. I mean sure, it's a 4chan move, but my God, Manga and Anime make me think of Girugamesh all the time. It's a terrible thing.

[D'rek]

Fluffy the Littlest Pony, on May 21 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

Reading this thread really makes me want to post a picture of Girugamesh guy. I mean sure, it's a 4chan move, but my God, Manga and Anime make me think of Girugamesh all the time. It's a terrible thing.

That statement is stupid in sooooo many ways...

[Assail]

D'rek, on May 21 2009, 08:09 PM, said:

Fluffy the Littlest Pony, on May 21 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

Reading this thread really makes me want to post a picture of Girugamesh guy. I mean sure, it's a 4chan move, but my God, Manga and Anime make me think of Girugamesh all the time. It's a terrible thing.

That statement is stupid in sooooo many ways...

I don't deny this. But ever since watching that commerical concerning the guy, alls I think of is, "ANIME!", "GIRUGAMESH!", "MANGA!".

Not even meant to be remotely funny, I'm serious.

[D'rek]

Fluffy the Littlest Pony, on May 21 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

D'rek, on May 21 2009, 08:09 PM, said:

Fluffy the Littlest Pony, on May 21 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

Reading this thread really makes me want to post a picture of Girugamesh guy. I mean sure, it's a 4chan move, but my God, Manga and Anime make me think of Girugamesh all the time. It's a terrible thing.

That statement is stupid in sooooo many ways...

I don't deny this. But ever since watching that commerical concerning the guy, alls I think of is, "ANIME!", "GIRUGAMESH!", "MANGA!".

Not even meant to be remotely funny, I'm serious.

Well, don't. Just don't.

[Mentalist]

Your name is Fluffy, and you have a problem....

[Assail]

Mentalist, on May 21 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

Your name is Fluffy, and you have a problem....

Can I have a hug?

[Darkwatch]

In all honesty I hand't thought that far ahead to make a nice light argument as to why. I was simply trying to bring the thread back on track after I derailed it.

But I will endeavous to say why:
It shouldn't be mandatory class reading. As a personal book report, there's no reason to say no, other than the Teacher's discretion.

1- The quality of the prose has been universally criticized by many authors, including Stephen King (whether or not this is a point in favour of the argument is not clear). Now I know many schools give sub-par mandatory reading, but they should avoid going into badly written purple prose and thinly veiled harlequin territory.

2- While many people tried to get Harry Potter banned because of witchcraft (which was not a good excuse), saying it was moraly reprehensible, I consider twilight to be the truly ethical rule breaker.
Allegations (very well supported ones) have been raised that the series is sexist and abusive. Seen by Edward getting more controlling of Isa throughout the 2nd in 3rd books in limiting her lines to the werewolf (taking the engine out of her car or breaking her scooter so that she can't go meet the guy).
The bruising and other harm caused during the sex.
Isa's total abandon of personal motivation so has to follow her boyfriend as if her life meant nothing.


There's more but this is getting to serious.

[Mentalist]

ic... so your post shoud read NOT allowed.

that typo actually really threw me off.

I agree that it should not be a class reading.

[Darkwatch]

Typo, my fault.

[Assail]

Definitely Dark. It honestly promotes a bad lifestyle, fantasy or not. However, despite it being an undesirable book, both in giving bad impressions and being a terribly written book in the first place, I don't believe in censorship. (What, conservative not believing in censorship? ) I went to a private school in 6th grade where I got suspended for bringing Lord of the Rings to school and reading it in class.

I left that school. Bad experience and all, hence my anti censorship attitude. I think it should be left up to teacher discretion. Each to their own though.

[Mentalist]

sigh
bringign the thread back to it's original topic (Mappo's dilemma)

crappy writing aside, the book propagates some ideas that are fairly radical, and not the good-way-radical. There's a reason people drew parallels with Goodkind, but I'll stop there.

point being, if Twilight is such a powerful phenomenon (though I must say I've been fortunate enough to be completely oblivious to it pretty much up untill the point it started to come in discussions here), and it is not really a positive one, I don't see why it should be encouraged.

also, it should be identified properly as romance fiction instead of fantasy.

[Darkwatch]

I'm not one for censorship either, but there needs to be an effort put into place to make sure people know what's going on.
Banning the book isn't the answer. Putting it into context is.
It's like porn, you know you're kids will get their hands on some, and the more you object the more they'll go for it. But if you make sure to properly define porn and it's seperation from normal reality then you should be fine.

That's what's needed for this book. It's not just the book itself that's bad, it's the fanatical following that puts so much stock in it.

edit: Crosspost
Me and ment are saying the same thing.

This post has been edited by Darkwatch: 22 May 2009 - 03:28 AM

[Assail]

Darkwatch, on May 21 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

I'm not one for censorship either, but there needs to be an effort put into place to make sure people know what's going on.
Banning the book isn't the answer. Putting it into context is.
It's like porn, you know you're kids will get their hands on some, and the more you object the more they'll go for it. But if you make sure to properly define porn and it's seperation from normal reality then you should be fine.

That's what's needed for this book. It's not just the book itself that's bad, it's the fanatical following that puts so much stock in it.

Great point, I totally agree with it too. Yeah, I think there is honestly enough evidence (Seen with the following) that makes everything said thus far feasible and correct.

As for Romance Fiction... well it has Vampires and Werewolves as main/secondary characters. Those are very much a fantasy aspect, as much as I hate to classify Twilight as true fantasy

[HoosierDaddy]

Stupid fun thread is getting serious. THIS IS THE INN!

I bet Dr. Acula could beat up Glitterboy.

[Darkwatch]

HoosierDaddy, on May 21 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

Stupid fun thread is getting serious. THIS IS THE INN!

I bet Dr. Acula could beat up Glitterboy.

Of course he could, he managed to Vamparize three demon harpies. How many vampires can do that on a good day.

[Assail]

Darkwatch, on May 21 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on May 21 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

Stupid fun thread is getting serious. THIS IS THE INN!

I bet Dr. Acula could beat up Glitterboy.

Of course he could, he managed to Vamparize three demon harpies. How many vampires can do that on a good day.

We already know the question to this.

EDWARD COULD!

*swoons*

Rofl, I feel like puking up my chicken fajita burrito just typing that.