[Sinreaver20]

well first off i guess i should say hi since i just registered. As my title suggests i just finished Deadhouse Gates and have a couple questions. If the answers are spoilers to the next books you can just say its explained later, but here we go:

1.Is Kalam really settling down? I hope he is in future books since he seems like such an awesome character

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

3. Who were the marines looking for at the end? Coltaine? Kulp?

4. Why did shadowthrone "award" Fid, Kalam and co? I don't really understand. most of the journey seemed to be pretty useless moreso probably in tghe eyes of shadowthrone

5. Is my mind playing tricks on me or am i supposed to recognize the name of Duicker's marine?

[HoosierDaddy]

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

well first off i guess i should say hi since i just registered. As my title suggests i just finished Deadhouse Gates and have a couple questions. If the answers are spoilers to the next books you can just say its explained later, but here we go:

1.Is Kalam really settling down? I hope he is in future books since he seems like such an awesome character

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

3. Who were the marines looking for at the end? Coltaine? Kulp?

4. Why did shadowthrone "award" Fid, Kalam and co? I don't really understand. most of the journey seemed to be pretty useless moreso probably in tghe eyes of shadowthrone

5. Is my mind playing tricks on me or am i supposed to recognize the name of Duicker's marine?

1. Kalam remains in the series.
2. Hmmmm, find out in later books.
3. Duiker
4. Explain question, please.
5. Explain question again, please.

6. Welcome to the forum!

[Sinreaver20]

OK i guess i didn't explain my last 2 very well:

4. Why was Shadowthrone so happy with the group? Did they unintentionally help him with a scheme of his or did he just admire their guts or something? It seems like Shadowthrone would have been happy if Kalam killed Laseen but they didn't and it seems like Shadowthrone is awarding their failure, unless they did something to help him that I am not seeing. So why did Shadowthrone bring them where they wanted to go?

5.Is the marine somebody we are supposed to know, or is it just a random person? The paper on Duiker said "Say'yless Lorthal" and I am assuming that is the name of the marine woman who gave him the note. I get this feeling that it was somebody mentioned earlier in the book and I keep thinking she was one of the Red Blades

[HoosierDaddy]

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 01:56 AM, said:

OK i guess i didn't explain my last 2 very well:

4. Why was Shadowthrone so happy with the group? Did they unintentionally help him with a scheme of his or did he just admire their guts or something? It seems like Shadowthrone would have been happy if Kalam killed Laseen but they didn't and it seems like Shadowthrone is awarding their failure, unless they did something to help him that I am not seeing. So why did Shadowthrone bring them where they wanted to go?

5.Is the marine somebody we are supposed to know, or is it just a random person? The paper on Duiker said "Say'yless Lorthal" and I am assuming that is the name of the marine woman who gave him the note. I get this feeling that it was somebody mentioned earlier in the book and I keep thinking she was one of the Red Blades

4. They did a miraculous job of leading the converging d'ivers and soletaken away from the true Path of Hands, and into Tremorlor instead. Keep reading for other lesser and more nebulous connections. As to Laseen & Shadowthrone... keep reading.

5. Okay, I have no idea what you are talking about here. It's been a while sense I've re-read DG, and I don't own it so I can't look it up.

[Sinreaver20]

Ok well thanks for the answers The last one isn't really a big deal just a curiosity

[Skywalker]

@ Sinreaver - Duiker's marine gal remains nameless, and is supposed to. You haven't seen her before... and it is safe to say you won't again. Doesn't she actually die "on-screen" during DG? or she dies just off-screen toward the end of the Chain of Dogs outside Aren...

[Assail]

Sinreaver20, on Apr 28 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

well first off i guess i should say hi since i just registered. As my title suggests i just finished Deadhouse Gates and have a couple questions. If the answers are spoilers to the next books you can just say its explained later, but here we go:

1.Is Kalam really settling down? I hope he is in future books since he seems like such an awesome character

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

3. Who were the marines looking for at the end? Coltaine? Kulp?

4. Why did shadowthrone "award" Fid, Kalam and co? I don't really understand. most of the journey seemed to be pretty useless moreso probably in tghe eyes of shadowthrone

5. Is my mind playing tricks on me or am i supposed to recognize the name of Duicker's marine?

I feel like reiterating HD.

1. He's still in it, his character will be explained much more in the series. More mysteries concerning him as well, as it is with SE
2. Later books.
3. Yeah, they were looking for Duiker, they didn't know where Kulp was.
4. They basically saved a lot of people a lot of trouble. Keep reading for more info on ST and why he is so happy with them.
5. No. Part of SE's books are the tragedy that goes along with them. This was one of those tragic moments. The women Duiker loved wrote her name on a piece of paper, which Duiker never read. Tragic, pretty much. That's all.

[Sinreaver20]

she died in DG that's why I didn't think it was very important I just thought it was weird to reveal her name after she was dead I thought there was some hidden meaning behind it

[Assail]

Sinreaver20, on Apr 28 2009, 11:28 PM, said:

she died in DG that's why I didn't think it was very important I just thought it was weird to reveal her name after she was dead I thought there was some hidden meaning behind it

There's going to be a lot of things that are going to stump you and have you sitting there saying, "Dude, what the F*&$". But I basically saw it as tragic. Someone might have picked up on some kind of literary technique he used besides tragedy in revealing her name but I just saw it as a sad thing. Two people in love, dying and never knowing each others names.

[D'rek]

Don't listen to these guys Sinreaver, her name *is* Sa'yless Lorthal, as noted by Rudd when it reads the paper aloud. These guys have forgotten that whole part of DG (tsk tsk!). However, she's really just a marine from the 7th and has no role beyond being Duiker's sheboinger and a soldier of the 7th. Perhaps a similarity between names has confuzzled you, such as Lorthal ~= Lostara, who is a Red Blade. There are a lot of very similar names in MBotF.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 29 April 2009 - 04:31 PM

[MTS]

Like Skinner and Shimmer That one pissed a few people off.

I think the whole deal with the marine was to revitalise Duiker, and give him something positive out of the whole experience. It also took him out of that slump, and made him live life with a little more joy. But, as with SE, anything good has the probable potential to turn bad.

Spoiler

Korlat/Whiskeyjack anyone?

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 29 April 2009 - 04:38 PM

[Aptorian]

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

1.Is Kalam really settling down? I hope he is in future books since he seems like such an awesome character

The next you will see of Kalam you will find him in the presence of Shadow. Remember, he has a connection with the 1300 or so children he saved from the cross.

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

Wickans don't ascend they reiterate. They are born again. That is why the crowes come for them. Coltains soul was carried to the woman with the "empty" child in the Wickans home land.

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

3. Who were the marines looking for at the end? Coltaine? Kulp?

I had to think a while on that one before I remembered it was Gesler, Stormy and Truth you were talking about. Yeah, i's Duiker they looked for I think.

They wouldn't had known where to find Kulp and assuming he was staked along with the army is a long guess. Kulp was of course consumed by Gryllen.

Come to think of it... did Coltain leave a body after the Crows took his soul? Did they take his flesh with them?

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

4. Why did shadowthrone "award" Fid, Kalam and co? I don't really understand. most of the journey seemed to be pretty useless moreso probably in tghe eyes of shadowthrone

This part is so vague in my memory. Does anyone remember if there was more to it than just helping out with the Path of Hands?

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

5. Is my mind playing tricks on me or am i supposed to recognize the name of Duicker's marine?

No, that's why her giving him the cloth with her name was such a tragic scene, and then... well, wait for the next books

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on Apr 29 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

3. Who were the marines looking for at the end? Coltaine? Kulp?

I had to think a while on that one before I remembered it was Gesler, Stormy and Truth you were talking about. Yeah, i's Duiker they looked for I think.

They wouldn't had known where to find Kulp and assuming he was staked along with the army is a long guess. Kulp was of course consumed by Gryllen.

Come to think of it... did Coltain leave a body after the Crows took his soul? Did they take his flesh with them?

Gesler talks about it in HoC, they were looking for

Spoiler

Duiker

.

I do believe that when the crows departed there was nothing left on the cross he was stuck to. I think.

Aptorian, on Apr 29 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

4. Why did shadowthrone "award" Fid, Kalam and co? I don't really understand. most of the journey seemed to be pretty useless moreso probably in tghe eyes of shadowthrone

This part is so vague in my memory. Does anyone remember if there was more to it than just helping out with the Path of Hands?

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

5. Is my mind playing tricks on me or am i supposed to recognize the name of Duicker's marine?

No, that's why her giving him the cloth with her name was such a tragic scene, and then... well, wait for the next books

Helping on the Path of Hands, Apsalar being possessed by Cotillion, Rellock being a loyal servant of Shadow, Kalam assisting the Whirlwind and getting Sha'ik to release Apt and all of them killing some claws. A wide variety of potential reasons, some of which relate more to ST and some more to Kellanved, but all legit since Fiddler reveals the Kel=ST thing to him there and there is talk of loyal soldiers and such...

[Aptorian]

Ah yeah, I remember that. Fiddler is all "Fuck your old loyalty to emperor spiel" Kelanved is grumpy but amused. Good stuff.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Aptorian, on Apr 29 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

Wickans don't ascend they reiterate. They are born again. That is why the crowes come for them. Coltains soul was carried to the woman with the "empty" child in the Wickans home land.

To give more detail on this - from GotM. Do you remember the scene in one of Kruppe's dreams, in which Pran Chole, K'rul, Kruppe and the nameless Rhivi woman gathered to collect the thing that had been Tattersail/Bellurdan/Nightchill?

That Rhivi was pregnant with could be called (for lack of a better word) a "blank" child. It was ready to take on the soul of not-Tattersail before birth.

The woman glimpsed in a brief passage in DG was her Wickan equivalent. She is to give birth to Coltaine reborn.

More on this in later books.

[D'rek]

Dolorous Menhir, on Apr 29 2009, 05:39 PM, said:

Aptorian, on Apr 29 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

Sinreaver20, on Apr 29 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

2.In the epilogue it seemed like Coltaine is coming back, and i know that the warlocks were able to do it in a similar way, but i always assumed it was through some sort of magic. Is it something that powerful wickans do or has Coltaine ascended?

Wickans don't ascend they reiterate. They are born again. That is why the crowes come for them. Coltains soul was carried to the woman with the "empty" child in the Wickans home land.

To give more detail on this - from GotM. Do you remember the scene in one of Kruppe's dreams, in which Pran Chole, K'rul, Kruppe and the nameless Rhivi woman gathered to collect the thing that had been Tattersail/Bellurdan/Nightchill?

That Rhivi was pregnant with could be called (for lack of a better word) a "blank" child. It was ready to take on the soul of not-Tattersail before birth.

The woman glimpsed in a brief passage in DG was her Wickan equivalent. She is to give birth to Coltaine reborn.

More on this in later books.

That does describe the Wickan magic well, but (being cantaknerous here) I think K'rul said the Rhivi woman was prepared with no child whatsoever (blank or otherwise), so while the description is apt for the wickans, I don't think the comparison is valid. But i'm just nitpicking, no worries!

[Dolorous Menhir]

D'rek, on Apr 30 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

That does describe the Wickan magic well, but (being cantaknerous here) I think K'rul said the Rhivi woman was prepared with no child whatsoever (blank or otherwise), so while the description is apt for the wickans, I don't think the comparison is valid. But i'm just nitpicking, no worries!

Are you saying that the Rhivi was not pregnant?

GotM, on p.354, said:

The woman who approached was perhaps middle-aged, heavy with child.

GotM, on p.358, said:

A thought came to him [Kruppe] and he frowned. "K'rul, what of the first child within the Rhivi?"

"There was none, Kruppe. The Rhivi woman was prepared in a manner unknown to any man." He chuckled. "Including myself." He raised his head. "This sorcery belongs to the Moon, Kruppe."

This is the same as the Wickan ritual.

[Salt-Man Z]

Huh? That reads to me like she wasn't pregnant to begin with.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Salt-Man Z, on Apr 30 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

Huh? That reads to me like she wasn't pregnant to begin with.

What part of "heavy with child" do you not understand?

[Salt-Man Z]

Sorry, but I have no context for those quotes. When Kruppe asks about the fate of the first child, and K'rul says that there never was one... ?

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 30 April 2009 - 08:53 PM