[Fener]

Omtose, on Apr 26 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

There is such a thing as too much you know.

Fener, on Apr 26 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

I agree that my playstyle is distracting many people, and could be harmful, so i'll tell you what. I'll do a deal.

Lynch Mockra. From his reaction to my case I think it's highly likely that he's guilty. If he comes up innocent, i'll accept that i'm more of a distraction than a help, and you can get rid of me tomorrow.

Sound fair?

[Shadow]

Tellan, on Apr 26 2009, 11:48 PM, said:

Shadow, on Apr 26 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Omtose, on Apr 26 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

Yes well I think most of us are hoping at least one of the two of them (Mockra/Fener) are scum. It's not going to be very good for team inno it we lose two more of our members. If it does happen that they are both inno I will be irritated by their behaviour/style of play Fener especially because it has caused a huge distraction and will have allowed the scum to operate freely. If Fener ends up being scum I will definitely be looking at Shadow, more closely because the suggestion put forth by Meanas that he's a symp or possibly scum with Fener as a symp has quite a bit of merrit to it.

I would like to know how I have symped Fener - both you and Meanas have said this but not outlined any reason - apart from saying it has 'merit.'

I pointed out your possible relationship to Fener back on day 1--and if he comes up scum, you bet i'll be looking at you
doing a re-read in a different tab, i'm getting odd vibe from Gamelon....

o-kay, I must have missed that, can you tell me what it's based on? The only thing I could possibly think of is that I haven't attacked Fener over his style of posting? From day 1 itself, I remember Fener saying when he was pushing everyone that he liked that I'd gone my own way and voted for Liosan?

[Fener]

OK, i'm going to bed. If by morning no more people want to lynch Mockra I guess i'll look for someone else.

[Tellan]

just Finished my re-read

my time's up, so i'll post a quick summary of my thoughts:

I'm getting an odd feeling about Gamelon and Ruse.

Gamelon's been consistently playing the undecided style--being decently vocal, gving his opinion and attacking low-posters--a proven way of blending in.
and he's completely dissapeared lately, though it's posssible that was due to RL, so i'm not holding it against him yet.

Ruse, on the other hand has been VERY cautious. especially when it comes to voting. his every vote so far has been "a vote of necessity"--nicely hiding in the middle of train where no one would question his motivations.

that's it for now, may post cases with quotes when I get back (about 3-4 hours)

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 14 hours and 21 minutes remaining

20 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

11 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night

2 votes for Mockra: ( Kessobahn, Fener)
5 votes for Fener: ( Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Anomandaris, Ampelas)

Players not voted: Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Korlat, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

[Tennes]

I am on for just a sec. RL is brutally busy for me on the weekends.

I can't complain to much about the Liosan lynch. I wasn't here for it. Day one lynches are always totally random. That days was more so. I personally like to Rp and the Rping that I do has absolutely nothing to do with the game. I consider RPing to be legitimate spamming (unlike what grief does ).

I hate to single Fener out but he has so many posts that just don't make sense also I appoligize for not quoting the posts. I really don't have a lot of time right now.

Fener I saw in one post that you thought that the scum was more likely to be in the high poster then in the low posters because of last nights kill. That doesn't make any sense to me. I have played in games were scum were the leading posters and were they were the lowest posters. So saying that the scum is in one section of posters over another based off of nothing more then a WIFOM NK is ridiculous to say the least and sympish to say the worst. I have also noted Fener that you seem to vote all over the place and quickly. Yes you have came back to Mockra several times but you have voted and tossed out accusations at a lot of different players. That is the kind of strategy that a good symp would have. I think that we all know a angry player who is a good symp. I am especially suspicious of you offering yourself up to be lynched if only the whole group will go along and lynch Mockra. Once again that is somewhat of a sympish move. It allows you to say I am a innocent who is not rolled so you don't have to worry about me. I don't get I have gone over Mockra's posts and what stands out at me is that I think that he is a noob who is trying to feel his way through the game and has found himself under constant attack.

As to the lack of a lynch yesterday. I can't say as though I am sorry. While it is true that lynching is the only way we can get information it is also how the scum are able to quicken their elimination of us. On the weekend it is hard for people to post and it is easy for symps or scum to drive a couple of quick lynches and to build up a high post count. I don't really mind your posting style or your attacks on people Fener but I do wish that you would let people post their own opinions without claiming that they are obvious symps for someone. That is irritating and is nothing more then strawmaning. I am doing no such thing. I have no clue to his guilt or innocence. What I am doing is trying to quickly get my thoughts down.

I think that Fener is probably a symp. The fact that Fener has tossed accusations at almost everyone who has posted so far this weekend does nothing but allow for his masters to hide. It is a good symp gambit. Unfortunately in this game a symp is as important to kill as scum. Why because the symps will take over for the scum.

Vote Fener

[Ruse]

Fener, on Apr 26 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

Omtose, on Apr 26 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

There is such a thing as too much you know.

Fener, on Apr 26 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

I agree that my playstyle is distracting many people, and could be harmful, so i'll tell you what. I'll do a deal.

Lynch Mockra. From his reaction to my case I think it's highly likely that he's guilty. If he comes up innocent, i'll accept that i'm more of a distraction than a help, and you can get rid of me tomorrow.

Sound fair?

You aren't Monty Hall and this isn't TV. Good intentions, bad playstyle.

Vote Fener.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 13 hours and 44 minutes remaining

20 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

11 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night

1 vote for Mockra: ( Kessobahn)
7 votes for Fener: ( Tennes, Meanas, Mockra, Ruse, Omtose, Anomandaris, Ampelas)

Players not voted: Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Korlat, Rashan, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan

[Ruse]

Tellan, on Apr 26 2009, 04:06 PM, said:

just Finished my re-read

my time's up, so i'll post a quick summary of my thoughts:

I'm getting an odd feeling about Gamelon and Ruse.

Gamelon's been consistently playing the undecided style--being decently vocal, gving his opinion and attacking low-posters--a proven way of blending in.
and he's completely dissapeared lately, though it's posssible that was due to RL, so i'm not holding it against him yet.

Ruse, on the other hand has been VERY cautious. especially when it comes to voting. his every vote so far has been "a vote of necessity"--nicely hiding in the middle of train where no one would question his motivations.

that's it for now, may post cases with quotes when I get back (about 3-4 hours)

If you'd been here you'd have realized that the cases were so thin and spread out there wasn't much to vote on. I finally decided to vote you, not because I thought you guilty, but because I didn't want the collective us to have to talk about you again today. Fener solved that problem for you though, so lucky you.

[Ruse]

edit - double post.

This post has been edited by Ruse: 27 April 2009 - 12:04 AM

[Emurlahn]

Ok I'm back, and it looks like Fener's continued his blatant antagonizing. I think offering himself up to kill Mockra seals the deal.

And besides that, I won't be awake when day times out, so...

Vote Fener

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 13 hours and 21 minutes remaining

20 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Kessobahn, Korlat, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

11 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night

1 vote for Mockra: ( Kessobahn)
8 votes for Fener: ( Tennes, Meanas, Emurlahn, Mockra, Ruse, Omtose, Anomandaris, Ampelas)

Players not voted: Barghast, D'riss, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Korlat, Rashan, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan

[Shadow]

As I may not be here when day times out, I'll vote now.

While I have nothing particularly against Fener, too many people do and the situation won't resolve itself until he's gone. I think Tennes summed it up very well a few posts above. Although personally I'm unsure as to whether he's a symp or not, Tennes' argument is reasonable at least, unlike a few we've had around here. The suspicion of symp will continue to hound Fener throughout, and really we need to get on and look for killers.

Vote Fener

And here's hoping he's a symp or worse.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 27 April 2009 - 12:31 AM

[Kessobahn]

i dont think a single person voting for fener actually believes he's going to turn up 'scum' when he's lynched, but the case against him is basically that he distracts from true scum...

doesn't anyone else find that argument to be bunk? if fener is a symp, his goal is going to be to keep as much scum alive for as long as possible... if he gets himself lynched early, the only thing that can do is sow confusion as scum say 'well clearly he was inno so who is the true scum' where others will say, 'well he was probably a symp but we don't know for sure'

in other words, it's just as confusing to lynch fener as it is not to.

[Ruse]

Not really confusing, he even says if we don't like Mockra he'll find another target when he gets back. Then it will be another target tomorrow and the next day and on. Frankly, I don't want to look at his targets the rest of the game to the exclusion of others because if we can agree on one thing it's certainly that he draws focus.

[Omtose]

Is it any better to lynch Mockra then and leave Fener around? I think it's difficult no matter how we look at it, that's part of the reason I'm so annoyed with Fener if he is inno he hasn't helped us at all or very little despite the fact he was supposedly trying to get things going. We can still look at Mockra tommorow, it's hard to really judge Mockra properly at the moment though with all of this hoopla created by Fener.

If it helps I will go back and look at Mockra from the beginning to see if there's anything that really sticks out. For the most part any attention he has attracted so far in my mind has been due to Fener rather than something he has done himself. It is quite possible I missed something though.

[Omtose]

Ruse, on Apr 26 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Not really confusing, he even says if we don't like Mockra he'll find another target when he gets back. Then it will be another target tomorrow and the next day and on. Frankly, I don't want to look at his targets the rest of the game to the exclusion of others because if we can agree on one thing it's certainly that he draws focus.

This is true and a really good point. If we lynch Mockra today and Fener starts up with another case and a vote tomorrow as soon as night is over we will be right back at square one. He's damaged himself to the point where every case he brings up makes him look suspicious. In fact it's actually preventing us from creating any kind of new case against anyone, we have alot of people that still haven't been looked at.

[Kessobahn]

the point is if we lynch Mockra and he was 'innocent' we can immediately lynch Fener

obviously fener's gambling that mockra isn't a symp, but the rule is basically this:

1) Lynch Mockra > Guilty means Fener was right (and PI), Inno means we lynch Fener for being a distraction (although Mockra as symp could still lead to a Fener lynch, he seems comfortable with the risk)
2) Lynch Fener > Guilty means Fener was BSing (but nobody expects that) but the new killer is a mystery, Inno means absolutely nothing because now Mockra probably loses his big target on his back and we have learned absolutely nothing

That's basically a Win/Win vs Win/Lose scenario.

Drawing attention isn't necessarily a bad thing if you draw attention to the right places.

This post has been edited by Kessobahn: 27 April 2009 - 01:15 AM

[Ruse]

Isn't it kind of pretentious to lynch one guy cause the other guy says so and if we are wrong then "oppsie" we'll just lynch the other guy. I made a case on you. Are you comfortable with me saying guys I know it's Kessobahn and if I'm wrong well you can just lynch me tomorrow? It's a good way to narrow things down, but it really sucks for you doesn't it?

[Fener]

I can't sleep.

Mainly because i'm worrying about exactly this situation. Seriously, I leave when there's 5 votes on me, and I had a slight worry but didn't think there was that much immediate danger. 2 and a half hours later and i'm at L-2? Come on, there's half the day to go. People really want me gone, don't they? But nobody actually thinks that i'm a killer. This is possibly the most bizzare situation i've ever found myself in in a game of mafia.

By the way, PS, i'm voting for Mockra.