[Gamelon]

And that was a crosspost of nearly an entire page.

[Tennes]

Emurlahn, on Apr 28 2009, 02:13 PM, said:

Where's the post where I defended Mockra, aside from saying I didn't like the case on him? I believe at that point, the extent of the case on him was the D'riss/Mockra "signalling/coding" crap. Not much of a case.

@Tennes: the post you quoted and said was "daming"...that post involved me pointing out that Fener misinterpreted a prior post and thought I was referring to something else (you'd have to read it all in context). Following that, I removed my vote because I liked his reaction to my vote and didn't think that was very indicative of scum.

As for my lack of posts...well, I got kinda boned on the random draws so I honestly don't feel as much motivation to contribute as I normally do. But aside from that, the last time I tried being loud I got nked night 1 and absolutely no one even possibly considered my death in conjunction to a massive pissing contest...turned out that the other guy was my killer.

That, plus a lot of work I promised myself I'd get done.

In the first post that I quoted you are both defendin Mockra and attacking Fener.

[Serc]

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

[Ampelas]

Have to go now, probably be back later tonight.

[Ampelas]

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

[Tennes]

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

Are you saying that I am a symp and that I know the killer? Based off of my day one Rping vote.

[Serc]

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

Are you saying that I am a symp and that I know the killer? Based off of my day one Rping vote.

Dunno where you're coming from with that. If Emur does ever turn up killer then we can come back here, but the only killer we know about for a fact on Day 1 was Mockra.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 6. 20 hours and 31 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Emurlahn, Gamelon, Korlat, Omtose, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night

4 votes for Shadow: ( Gamelon, Omtose, Anomandaris, Ampelas)

Players not voted: Emurlahn, Korlat, Ruse, Serc, Shadow, Telas, Tellan, Tennes

[Tennes]

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

Are you saying that I am a symp and that I know the killer? Based off of my day one Rping vote.

Dunno where you're coming from with that. If Emur does ever turn up killer then we can come back here, but the only killer we know about for a fact on Day 1 was Mockra.

Are you talking to me or about Amp? I am probably reading to much into things right now. I didn't sleep well last night. I have a problem were I dream were I slept through the alarm clock or that it is going off. So then I wake up and look at the clock and don't believe it. Last night I ended up going into the bathroom and looking at the clock in their. This happens to me all the time.

[Serc]

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

Are you saying that I am a symp and that I know the killer? Based off of my day one Rping vote.

Dunno where you're coming from with that. If Emur does ever turn up killer then we can come back here, but the only killer we know about for a fact on Day 1 was Mockra.

Are you talking to me or about Amp? I am probably reading to much into things right now. I didn't sleep well last night. I have a problem were I dream were I slept through the alarm clock or that it is going off. So then I wake up and look at the clock and don't believe it. Last night I ended up going into the bathroom and looking at the clock in their. This happens to me all the time.

Talking to Amp, agreeing with you - should have clarified. Hehe shit like that happens to me all the time too. Although I must ask why you have a clock in your bathroom... Then again I've only had my cellphone and a wristwatch for the last 5 years, mmaybe that's where people with clocks put them nowdays.

[Tennes]

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

Tennes, on Apr 28 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Serc, on Apr 28 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Nothing much else to see with Meanas, other than all the stuff I fished up making my case against her. The ridiculous case against Shadow could have been distancing/signaling, it did only start after Mockra died iirc (which means my above post should read game day three my apologies) She did get pretty pissy with him for no reason and knowing it was Gem still confuses me. Trying to draw the killers attention with something most people would dismiss as a confused inno might be an explanation.

Skimming through Tennes didnt reveal much either. Lots of RP day one, he did pee on Mockra's leg, but was pretty involved with a bunch of other players too. Then gone for the weekend. Some attempts at cases, nothing concrete; as well as a couple of fairly reasonable thoughts and reactions. Nothing to clear him of anything, but nothing to indicate a scum either.

Yeah, got the same read from Tennes, but I noticed his first vote was for Emu. First vote, in like his 3rd post. Kinda fits with my theory that symps know the current killer, and one other symp.

And now I must go.

Are you saying that I am a symp and that I know the killer? Based off of my day one Rping vote.

Dunno where you're coming from with that. If Emur does ever turn up killer then we can come back here, but the only killer we know about for a fact on Day 1 was Mockra.

Are you talking to me or about Amp? I am probably reading to much into things right now. I didn't sleep well last night. I have a problem were I dream were I slept through the alarm clock or that it is going off. So then I wake up and look at the clock and don't believe it. Last night I ended up going into the bathroom and looking at the clock in their. This happens to me all the time.

Talking to Amp, agreeing with you - should have clarified. Hehe shit like that happens to me all the time too. Although I must ask why you have a clock in your bathroom... Then again I've only had my cellphone and a wristwatch for the last 5 years, mmaybe that's where people with clocks put them nowdays.

I have a cell with me all the time but I also have a clock in the bedroom it projects the time over my head. I have clocks in every room more or less. I might be a little obsessed with time.

[Shadow]

Back now, and just reading up. Saw Ampelas has a theory on me and will go and try and answer that case for you.

[Ampelas]

Ahhh, Shadow's here. Excellent. Yeah, Tennes, I wasn't really trying to draw a connection to you, just kinda thinking out loud. Thing is, if the symps know one other then it fits in the theory, but there's nothing really about you that has made me think you might be one.

[Serc]

As much as this is going to be very interesting I need to head to bed. Will decide tomorrow after Shadow has defended himself whether I will be voting for him.

Edit @ amp - if the symps knew each other, why would he have signalled? Like I said, it's only suspicious if Emur CFs scum... Right, going to bed.

This post has been edited by Serc: 28 April 2009 - 08:42 PM

[Anomandaris]

Path-Shaper, on Apr 24 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

Game Specific rules -

READ THIS ITS IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!

Days 24 hours
Nights 0 hours - Provisionals are very important.

If the killer dies the symp takes his place - you have to lynch all scum to win

There may be paired versions of any of the following

Killer,Gaurd,Healer,Finder

HAVE FUN!

it is worth noting that symp isnt down as a paired role though, so chances of symps knowing one another is slim, although bent did tell methere couldnt be an evil guard when i asked him so...

[Ampelas]

Hmmm, yes Serc, you make a good point. And either way, I think most of the early votes for Emu were because he tried to close the bar at least, mine was.

EDIT: Although, I never said all the symps knew each other. I said that perhaps it worked as a cult mechanic sometimes does, where you know the guy to the right of you, he know the guy to the right of him, and so on up the ladder, with the leader only knowing the one immediately below him. In this case, it would be more akin to the killer(s) would know only any others who'd CF scum.

This post has been edited by Ampelas: 28 April 2009 - 09:03 PM

[Shadow]

Ok, it's probably too late to stop this train, but I'm damn well going to try! No emo from me

This is largely a situation of my own making - I realise the way I've been going about things has been....haphazard at best, and was bound to raise the ire of some/most sooner or later. The reason I'm playing like this is because I've seen far too many mafia games where attention centres on a few (and to an extent it's happened here) while others can slip under the radar. I keep pointint to several people because I wanted to make sure that everyone was kept in mind - I didn't want anyone to be forgotten about - so I kept saying 'what about this, what about this, what about this'.....only, I think I've taken it too far now.
Oh, and when I saw Anomandaris had posted those PMs before I posted what I was writing based on Omtose's post, I kicked myself, because that, inadvertently, looks bad, as it looks like I'm backtracking on Ano because he showed those PMs. In reality, I had no idea he had posted that because I was typing out my own reply at the time. And anyway, it wouldn't have made a difference to what I said.

As for leaving...yeah, well, that really was an unfortunate timing of RL. Italian language exam. Went well, though, in case you're wondering.

Ok, so on to Ampelas' case:

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 07:05 PM, said:

Wow Ano, interesting tactic. Shadow has been irking me to, I'll get to that in a minute. First, finishing up Serc,

*ironic snip*

Now, I mentioned earlier that Fener and someone else had done something on thread that made me think paired innos, and the finder reveal worked out nicely. Now I've seen it from Shadow too, and I still don't think I have seen this particular way of doing this rather typical action before. Now, in order to PI Shadow, I could see an elaborate scheme of symps and the killer sacrificing themselves with a particularly effective fake reveal. Here we go

Fener revealed finder and fingered the first killer, Mockra. He was making cases against Mockra from the first, despite having no find to work with and pushed it too vehemently to be unsure of himself. Now, Mockra is CF'd scum, so we believe Fener's reveal. Then we find a symp, Meanas. Now Shadow has been fairly helpful in aggregating information. He's worked up a lot of trust from most of us, and I think some even have him as CI. However, looking back, Fener's reveal is mostly only confirmed by the sacrifice of one killer and his own death the ?following? night. At one point in quoting somebody, Fener did this to shorten it

*snip*

Now, I'd never seen it before, but it seemed reasonable so I ignored it. Shortly thereafter, Emurlahn went

*snip*

when he shortened a post. Again, I thought it seemed reasonable that Emu was Fener's partner in find. Hence my reluctance to reveal this. However, just a little while ago, Shadow went

*snip*

In shortening a quote, and to find something innocent enough like this which I've never seen used before in a game of Mafia cropping up in 3 people's writing in one game, just seems like too much of a coincidence for me. I sort of expect this to be written off, but I hope some of you will pay attention. I'm aware how similar it sounds to the punctuation cases used to hunt FMs last game, but with a shifting killer, I think this is one of the few things we have to work with. What makes it work, if its accurate, is that after a while all the symps know each other, because each symp must know who the killer is. Otherwise, they won't be much of a symp. Thus, assuming there are 4-6 scum, with one killer at a time, we had

Mockra Dead only scum CF.

Shadow Almost CI'd potentially current killer
Meanas Dead, more or less self confirmed symp.
Fener Dead, presumed finder.
Driss Dead, assumed symp
Emurlahn Drew flak at the beginning, but is now coasting at the bottom of people's wanted lists.
and one remaining possible.

So far, I think Kesso, who may or may not have a hidden partner, was the real finder, and his find on Fener of innocent was just a symp turning up as he would normally turn up.

Ok, first, the snips: Hands up who HAS seen this before. I certainly have, and I've certainly used it before too, not just in mafia but whenever quoting anyone with an over-long post or post with largely irrelevant details on these boards. I don't quite understand why putting *snip* reveals a link between people. Plenty of people do it. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think your FM example is the same, because isn't that one person changing identity? Therefore you can track them because they'll write in the same style. But in this game, there's no such thing, no one changes their alt, so punctuation et al remain unique, no? Simply because all the symps could know each other, it doesn't mean that they'd suddenly take on each other's mannerisms. Or are you saying something different? That symps signal to each other by saying *snip*? That would be quite elaborate, but I guess not as elaborate as the rest of the theory.....

Ok, here it is again:

"Fener revealed finder and fingered the first killer, Mockra. He was making cases against Mockra from the first, despite having no find to work with and pushed it too vehemently to be unsure of himself. Now, Mockra is CF'd scum, so we believe Fener's reveal. Then we find a symp, Meanas. Now Shadow has been fairly helpful in aggregating information. He's worked up a lot of trust from most of us, and I think some even have him as CI. However, looking back, Fener's reveal is mostly only confirmed by the sacrifice of one killer and his own death the ?following? night."

That would be a genius ploy. But it's not true. You're saying, if I'm following, that Fener was a symp fake-revealing finder and screwing over Mockra. Your theory is that there is one killer and several symps (bolded above), which suggests you think there is a heirarchy of symp-killer replacement. Fener did NOT become killer after Mockra's death (obviously), but someone else did. And you are then saying that that new killer and offed Fener to 'confirm' his inno status. Furthermore, the symps and former symp also gang up on another symp, Meanas, to make the new killer look even better. Before that, I also tried to set up Mockra through D'riss to make me look even better, yes? I'm assuming that this new killer is supposed to be me, although judging by people's posts after you posted your case, some seem to think I'm just a symp and not a killer?

As I said, a genius plan. But how over-elaborate is this? How many tracks do the evils have to cover, how many fake paths do they have to make here? It simply doesn't happen. The simplest answer is almost always the correct one, and this is by no means simple. It's just way too complex, with too many variables - things that could have gone wrong - for it to be all planned and executed so nicely.

And, if you believe this theory, what then about Fener's claim that Gamelon, his other find, is inno? Does that still hold? Because I believe that Fener was a real finder, I also believe that Gamelon is inno (or, at least, was not a killer, at the time). As I said, there are just too many strands here.

[Shadow]

Ampelas, on Apr 28 2009, 10:01 PM, said:

Hmmm, yes Serc, you make a good point. And either way, I think most of the early votes for Emu were because he tried to close the bar at least, mine was.

EDIT: Although, I never said all the symps knew each other. I said that perhaps it worked as a cult mechanic sometimes does, where you know the guy to the right of you, he know the guy to the right of him, and so on up the ladder, with the leader only knowing the one immediately below him. In this case, it would be more akin to the killer(s) would know only any others who'd CF scum.

You have to try and remember that this is a supposedly meat'n'potatoes game. In normal games, the killer does not know ANY symps. Of course, I don't know what Bent has decided to do about symps knowing each other...do they only find out who another symp was when that symp becomes a killer? I don't know. But the point is, bringing cult mechanics in to it again makes the whole thing overly-complicated.

[Anomandaris]

ok, just found something disturbing, spoke to bent and because i asked nicely he told me there was no evil guard, therefore mockra was actually a killer. I really should have clarified this but didnt think (given the title of bents bouncer and my own darkwatch's bouncer) and that meant (assuming not 3 killers) that driss couldnt be the solo killer. now if people think there where three scum and 1 symp shadow could be the killer, if not then he cannot actually be the killer.

Unless bent is fucking with me and because mockra is dead there isnt an evil guard now.

we guarded shadow night 3 and driss night 4 and blocked tellan last night.

no matter what way i look at it now, we have had two symps. meanas and either fener or kessobahn.

The only thing that makes me wonder is if there was only one killer remaing why leave a guard in the open? tempted to change my vote and go for someone else. if fener was the symp, i think we need to look at gamelon.

[Anomandaris]

remove vote

we have an awful lot of time, and io want to see what people make of path-shapers pm to me, can someone else check with bent and see if they give a straight answer as i read everything paranoid and cant quote the pm.