[Aptorian]

You're just trying to keep the white man down, Stonemonkey.

[stone monkey]

And failing miserably at it too...

[Elephant Tamer]

Ah yes, the hole. It is sad, but very human in nature. Then again, i dont feel like im digging a hole. And i dont feel like my argument has been discussed in a reasonable manner. I dont feel like this a loaded topic, in fact its a neccesary one. If anything, i feel a hole is being dug around me at the moment.

Oh yeah, the opium wars. The one where thousands of chinese were taken from their country and sold to other people because their skin looked different. Or was it the one where increasing british infleunce won a war in an underhanded manner? Really, your point is?

[Obdigore]

He was refuting this incorrect assumption on your part

Elephant Tamer said:

As for the idea that blacks are nothing special, well, allow me to disagree. Other people were also treated badly? Well, true. The difference about being an immigrant and a slave though is more than just treatment i believe. No war was fought to allow chinese people their freedom, nor a civil rights movement

[Elephant Tamer]

Hmm. Well, thats my fault for not clarifying. In the statement, i was reffering specificlly to apt's statement about the chinese people in america. If i knew how to use quotes that would have been more obvious. Still, I find myself disagreeing, since the opium wars were not really a war of independence or liberation per se, but thats another debate which is not really part of our disscussion here.

[Cause]

The world is bigger than america. History covers more than america,s 200 years. Yes the chinese lost the opium wars, a war fought to prevent foreign power exploitation of theire people and resources. To prevent the british from selling DRUGS in contravention of chinese drug laws freely to the chinese. Its alot more complex than it was not a war for indepedance.

People that have been kept as slaves include. Christian europeans by arabs. Though I suppose a jannisarie is not really a field slave still doubt it was fun. Black people. Christians in europe by other christians in europe.This excludes serdom which lasted longer and might as well be called slavery. Asians by asian. Asians exploited to such a degree they might be considered slaves. Indins by the spanish.

Comparing one peoples suffering to another and arguing who wins has the unfortuante effect of only proving that everybody loses. Black people dont have a monopoly on suffering and white people dont have a monopoly on causing it. I think its a fair statement to make that most slaves today are black yes, but they exist mostly in african countries owned by blacks and arabs.

[Elephant Tamer]

Not the point i was making. Black people were not the only people enslaved.They do not have a monopoly over suffering. And turks, not arabs, to be more precise. But it seems rather to be avoiding the truth if u say black people have not been seen as inferior far more often than others. More importantly, they were told ofen that they were inferior. Then again, why am i going into this argument at all? What does it matter who suffered more or whatever? Forget the comparsions, are you trying to say that black skinned indiviuals were not at the recieving end of a large amount of hateful actions? Or that other people being treated unfairly justifies it?

[Adjutant Stormy~]

To quote the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States:

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race, is to stop discriminating on the basis of race

If people want equality, the most effective way to do that is to treat everyone equally. That is, not to make things inclusive based on race, which is identical to making things exclusive based on race, but politically correct. Racial equality is looking at a man and seeing a man, not a black man, white man, chinese, japanese, eskimo, etc. To judge people by their abilities and not their race.

It is a symptom of the problem that Richards is laughed off the stage when he says something true. And not racist, for once.

[Silencer]

Adjutant Stormy, on May 26 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

To quote the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States:

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race, is to stop discriminating on the basis of race

If people want equality, the most effective way to do that is to treat everyone equally. That is, not to make things inclusive based on race, which is identical to making things exclusive based on race, but politically correct. Racial equality is looking at a man and seeing a man, not a black man, white man, chinese, japanese, eskimo, etc. To judge people by their abilities and not their race.

It is a symptom of the problem that Richards is laughed off the stage when he says something true. And not racist, for once.

I concur with this. Though god forbid we get rid of racial distinctions that aren't negatively discriminatory. You ever wonder what would happen if police witnesses couldn't give the culprit's race?

The thing is, it's not the distinction that's the problem, it's the things associated with the destinction that cause issues.

[Cougar]

The problem with positive discrimination is that it is as AS says identical to any other form of discrimination.

The reason it is necessary is that white people in positions where they are in the majority and hold the power have constantly shown that they can not be trusted not to discriminate, the same goes for men and hetrosexuals to lesser degrees.

[Obdigore]

And that is racism and sexism right there.

Any Human group in charge will attempt to make it so their offspring have advantages over the everyone else. It is Human Nature. That is why Communism, although great on paper, will never, ever work.

Ahem.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

So what do you do about it?

No matter how nice people are, someone, sometime is going to pull the race-card. Or the sex-card. Or the disabled-card. It's a political machination, just like being professed Christian, or pointing out that you're an alumnus from X University, or associating oneself with ANY OTHER GROUP EVER.

Discrimination happens. You just have to decide for it to not matter. Not for everything to be "fair" or "equal" because EVERYONE has a different idea of what that means. And it usually means them getting their piece of the pie. But it has to NOT MATTER, be inconsequential, beneath consideration.

Race should be something that is observed, noted, but not considered. Like height, hair color, or right- or left-handedness. It doesn't matter, because it's not something that actually means anything for the abilities, knowledge, rationality, artistic ability, imagination, personality, usefulness, sense of humor, literacy, or anything else that matters in a non-aesthetic, more-than-skin-deep sense.

So when people parade about on campus demanding things for ethnic group X or race Y, because it's only fair, I can rightfully call them bloody racists and spit on them like the human trash that they are.

Sorry, this is a subject that kinda gets my goat.

[Icarium Kalam]

Adjutant Stormy, on Jun 7 2009, 04:34 AM, said:

So what do you do about it?

No matter how nice people are, someone, sometime is going to pull the race-card. Or the sex-card. Or the disabled-card. It's a political machination, just like being professed Christian, or pointing out that you're an alumnus from X University, or associating oneself with ANY OTHER GROUP EVER.

Discrimination happens. You just have to decide for it to not matter. Not for everything to be "fair" or "equal" because EVERYONE has a different idea of what that means. And it usually means them getting their piece of the pie. But it has to NOT MATTER, be inconsequential, beneath consideration.

Race should be something that is observed, noted, but not considered. Like height, hair color, or right- or left-handedness. It doesn't matter, because it's not something that actually means anything for the abilities, knowledge, rationality, artistic ability, imagination, personality, usefulness, sense of humor, literacy, or anything else that matters in a non-aesthetic, more-than-skin-deep sense.

So when people parade about on campus demanding things for ethnic group X or race Y, because it's only fair, I can rightfully call them bloody racists and spit on them like the human trash that they are.

Sorry, this is a subject that kinda gets my goat.

Well said