[Cause]

I live in south africa and I assure you my black goverment would not allow black only colleges. Its absurb. Its completly counter to what it seeks to redress. Further as sombra points out if your academcially excluded its not because of race. If your too poor you need scholarships, bursaries or a night job. You dont need your own university. I really cant see the point.

[Aptorian]

It sounds like more of a relic of the past, the 50s, 60s, 70s than a particularly neccisary institution of present day America. But again, I don't really know anything about those systems.

[Bent]

I blame the Jews

~OK, I wont spam anymore, but c'mon the tension can be cut with a knife.

This post has been edited by Bent: 04 April 2009 - 12:28 PM

[Catherine]

Although Nova Scotia is a small province with a small population, statistics reveal we have a large population with post secondary education (at least 7 universities and colleges). We have a university for Gaelic studies, one for French studies and Mount St Vincent used to be a Women's university. We have scholarships for African Nova Scotians and First Nations (M'kMuk) and there is the the Black Business Association the helps African Nova Scotians start their own businesses. Keeping students in high school is a priority as gang violence even in my small neck of the woods is rising with drive-bys happening near schools and in the Children's Hospital parking lot. What we can do to increase education in our population is not considered racist or favouring one group or community over others. We try and do the best we can.

[Cause]

Bent, on Apr 4 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

I blame the Jews

~OK, I wont spam anymore, but c'mon the tension can be cut with a knife.

Truth is 100% defence against slander! We should do something about those shifty syphilis spreading vermin.

I dont think this thread is anywhere near out of control. Maybe its just me but we are all grown ups and I think we can handle discussing this.

[Eddie Dean]

Mentalist, on Apr 3 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Eddie Dean, on Apr 3 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

"Kramer" is just trying to justify his racism. I do agree with some of what he says, but there is no doubt that he has prejudice against minorities. Having pride in your own race isn't bashing other.

I was roomates with a black dude in college. I called him "my nigger" and he called me "cracker" etc. etc. That does not give me the right to say that to a stranger. I could ask a close white friend how his sex life is, but if I asked a white stranger that, they would get offended. Friendship creasted a trust that makes it okay to talk this way.

As for all the "black quotas" for jobs: I agree that safeguards are neccessary to prevent racism and prejudice from appearing in the work place, but if "equality" is what we are after, the best person should get the job regardless of race or sex. Unfortunatly, we are not in a position to have this yet, so those safeguards are required. Sure it sucks for the white guy who looses a job, but its better than the alternative.

I love this utilitarian approach in a nation that's supposed to all about liberty. equality and personal freedom.

not a shot at you personally, ED, but this kind of attitude just strikes me as.... hyppocritical?

Let me expain this again. I do not like in the least bit the way that the system works. I think it sucks. I think that it is ridiculous for people or companies to have a quota of minorities and that qualified white males don't get the job because of that. All that I'm saying is that it is better than the alternative of not being able to get good work at all because of your race like it was 40 years ago.

[TeddyGraham]

Toronto has a gay pride parade.....I would like a straight pride parade.....

[Tuberski]

To relieve the tension:

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: " I don't care if they're black, white, purple or green"... Ooh hold on now: Purple or Green? You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! - Unless they're suffocating - then help'em." - Mitch Hedberg

[Mushroom]

Lol, Women are Racist's!

Quote

With the obvious qualification that we're talking here about a four-minute version of love and dating, we found that men did put significantly more weight on their assessment of a partner's beauty, when choosing, than women did. We also found that women got more dates when they won high marks for looks from research assistants, who were hired for the much sought-after position of hanging out in a bar to rate the dater's level of attractiveness on a scale of one to 10.

By contrast, intelligence ratings were more than twice as important in predicting women's choices as men's. It isn't exactly that smarts were a complete turnoff for men: They preferred women whom they rated as smarter—but only up to a point. In a survey we did before the speed dating began, participants rated their own intelligence levels, and it turns out that men avoided women whom they perceived to be smarter than themselves. The same held true for measures of career ambition—a woman could be ambitious, just not more ambitious than the man considering her for a date.

When women were the ones choosing, the more intelligence and ambition the men had, the better. So, yes, the stereotypes appear to be true: We males are a gender of fragile egos in search of a pretty face and are threatened by brains or success that exceeds our own. Women, on the other hand, care more about how men think and perform, and they don't mind being outdone on those scores.

Another clear gender divide, this one less expected, emerged in our findings on racial preferences, reported in a forthcoming article in the Review of Economic Studies. Women of all the races we studied revealed a strong preference for men of their own race: White women were more likely to choose white men; black women preferred black men; East Asian women preferred East Asian men; Hispanic women preferred Hispanic men. But men don't seem to discriminate based on race when it comes to dating. A woman's race had no effect on the men's choices.

Two wrinkles on this: We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women's neutrality, not the men's pronounced preference. We also found that regional differences mattered. Daters of both sexes from south of the Mason-Dixon Line revealed much stronger same-race preferences than Northern daters.

Does all of this rational-choice stuff take the romance and mystery out of romance (just as some have accused my fellow economist Joel Waldfogel of taking the Christmas spirit out of Christmas)? I hope not. Our purpose is to understand how life-long relationships are formed. The first step in helping people find love and happiness is to figure out what they're really looking for in the first place.

Whole article if you're interested.

[Macros]

Racism is bad
But it generated much Hilarity yesterday at the bar.

Benayoun came on and all the old insane alcos in the bar went nuts, they think hes a terrible player, so obviously the abuse hurled at the tv was of the "dirty hook nosed useless bastard" variety. I wasn't laughing at the racism, but at their avenue of attack at him, they really dislike the poor lad.
cue the winning goal, 92nd minute, Benayoun
The place went mad I stood up and roared full volume "GET IN THERE JEW BEAUTY!!!" everyone agreed and the old alcos started chanting jew beauty, tey loved him again.
I pondered later to myself, whilst their racist comments were just mindless insults thrown at a player they don't like, was my wonderful headline worthy comment the more racist statement?

[Aptorian]

Well, calling a jewish player a jew beauty... is that actually racist if you're using it as a term of affection?

[Thelomen Toblerone]

On that theme, one of my neighbours is currently in court with another neighbour over some building crap that went on, which bioled over into a general hatred for eachother. What I find particularly amusing was when one of the women, a Polish immigrant who came to the UK about 15 years ago, told the other woman, a 2nd generation (born in the UK) middle-eastern muslim immigrant, to go home because "we" didnt want her sort in this country. I'm not really sure how to diagnose that attitude, it's just bizarre. What it does show though, is that racism is an illogical viewpoint and it's therefore not surprising that half the measures we come up with to solve it are illogical too.

[Shinrei]

Its always interesting to see the apologists that come out of the woodwork in Japan. There are a fair number of foreigners here who defend any sort of xenophobia or discrimination against foreigners. Their reasoning usually stems from Japan's "unique culture" that foreigners cant understand. There are also whiny liberals who argue that white people have no right to complain about being discriminated against, regardless of circumstances.

[Elephant Tamer]

Phew. Took me a while to get through all that. First point. Racism is racist. In other words, there is no such thing as race. Its a term invented by racists to label people, usually based on skin colour.There are cultural differences, national differences, geographical differences, tribal differences, linguistic differences, genetic differences. But there are no races. Really. Partitioning people based on skin colour makes absolutely no sense, and im not speaking in a moral manner here, im speaking scientificly.

I do take offense at the idea of white pride. I would not, however, take offense at the idea of austrian pride, or german pride, or canadian pride (i was going to say american, but i do take a bit of offense at that ). The hate thing comes to mind though, your pride cannot be a reason for you to demean or offend others. Although, humor and comedy are sort of grey areas here, having license to thing the ordinary statement does not. But you must remember, humor is a risky business, if you lack the skill or the sincerity to pull of the joke, it might be misconstrued. There is no cultural history of being white. There isnt one for being black, asian or anything else for that matter. Therein lies at least part of the problem. Its having barriers created millenia ago by people who knew no better.

When people speak of black pride and such, its usually a counter to the idea that blacks are inferior. Across histroy, i know of very few times (ok, maybe none) when white people have been at the recieving end of that argument. Neither have asian people. True, its an outdated concept because we know black skinned people are no different than any other people, yet its not that simple. In america, african-americans have been enslaved. The consequences arent just economical. These are a people literaly uprooted and broken apart. Very little space was left for their values and traditions to survive. These are things needed for a society to thrive. Also, the constant barrage of hate and being seen as inferior cannot but affect you at some point. The idea thats blacks are inferior has unfortunately taken root within the black community. And that is perhaps the worst consequence of all.

I love it when some people say, or at least imply 'im not a racist, so most people around me or like me must not be racist'. This is simply not true. Racism is still around.

MODEDIT: I put in some partitions in your wall of text for the sake of Hoosiers poor reading abilities, Apt

[Aptorian]

Elephant Tamer, on May 21 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

Racism is racist. In other words, there is no such thing as race. Its a term invented by racists to label people, usually based on skin colour.There are cultural differences, national differences, geographical differences, tribal differences, linguistic differences, genetic differences. But there are no races. Really. Partitioning people based on skin colour makes absolutely no sense, and im not speaking in a moral manner here, im speaking scientificly.

Ideologically, modern society shouldn't talk about races, because it creates a wedge in peoples image of each other, every one is after all equal. But scientifically, genetically speaking, there is a difference between human beings seperated by large geographical distances. There are certain illnesses that will only affect Africans, or Asians, I know this from watching too much ER I don't know if there vice versa are illnesses that only affect Caucasians.

Elephant Tamer, on May 21 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

When people speak of black pride and such, its usually a counter to the idea that blacks are inferior. Across histroy, i know of very few times (ok, maybe none) when white people have been at the recieving end of that argument. Neither have asian people. True, its an outdated concept because we know black skinned people are no different than any other people, yet its not that simple. In america, african-americans have been enslaved.

Asians, hispanics, etc. have all been treated like dirt in America back in the day. Chinese Immigrants were treated as bad or even worse than African Slaves during the building of the American railway. Their life wasn't worth much.

But generally, Europeans and Americans have always been very generous in our prejudice and biggotry, so much so that we did it to ourselves aswell. Think of the jews, the polish, the gypsies, countless peoples who were subjugated or displaces during the millenia in Europe. Think of the Irish and Italians who came to the US and was treated like second rate citizens. Think of Indians in England, or Aboriginals in Australia, etc. etc.

Black people aren't special, human beings are just fucked up.

[HoosierDaddy]

Not reading block of text. Elephant Tamer: Please cut that into paragraphs. Apt is a hero for reading it as is.

[Aptorian]

I made it easier for you, Hoosier. Loving the new Avatar by the way.

[Elephant Tamer]

Sorry about that. I keep forgetting to do that.

Anyway, im not being idealistic. I didnt say people are all the same. In fact, i said we are all different, and listed a a large list of differences, including geography and genetics. My point was the idea of race is rather redundant. In particular the whole skin colour thing. It means very little except the type of area your ancestors used to live in. The point you make about diseases is valid. But its more a genetic thing than a race thing.

As for the idea that blacks are nothing special, well, allow me to disagree. Other people were also treated badly? Well, true. The difference about being an immigrant and a slave though is more than just treatment i believe. No war was fought to allow chinese people their freedom, nor a civil rights movement. Look at japan. A country hardly having any contact with africa or black people in general, yet it has developed steryotypes about black people merely by proxy. That, i believe, is a scary thing in and of itself. The idea that black people are not the most affected by racism is quite unrealistic frankly.

[Cause]

Stop talking andthe hole you are in wont get any deeper. Put down the shovel and read a history book. Maybe the opium wars for a start

[stone monkey]

And here was me living in the hope that this particular thread had died a well deserved death...